Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Modern Family Life
C-Span sucks community > politics > Political Soapbox
Pages: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36
Bee
QUOTE
The fact is, market fundamentalism--the irrational belief that markets solve all problems--has succeeded in dismantling federal regulations and services but has failed to answer the question, Who will care for America's children and elderly?

As a result, this country's family policies lag far behind those of the rest of the world. A just-released study by researchers at Harvard and McGill found that of 173 countries studied, 168 guarantee paid maternal leave--with the United States joining Lesotho and Swaziland among the laggards. At least 145 countries mandate paid sick days for short- or long-term illnesses--but not the United States. One hundred thirty-four countries legislate a maximum length for the workweek; not us.

The media constantly reinforce the conventional wisdom that the care crisis is an individual problem. Books, magazines and newspapers offer American women an endless stream of advice about how to maintain their "balancing act," how to be better organized and more efficient or how to meditate, exercise and pamper themselves to relieve their mounting stress. Missing is the very pragmatic proposal that American society needs new policies that will restructure the workplace and reorganize family life.

Another slew of stories insist that there simply is no problem: Women have gained equality and passed into a postfeminist era. Such claims are hardly new. Ever since 1970 the mainstream media have been pronouncing the death of feminism and reporting that working women have returned home to care for their children. Now such stories describe, based on scraps of anecdotal data, how elite (predominantly white) women are "choosing" to "opt out," ditching their career opportunities in favor of home and children or to care for aging parents. In 2000 Ellen Galinsky, president of the Families and Work Institute in New York, wearily responded to reporters, "I still meet people all the time who believe that the trend has turned, that more women are staying home with their kids, that there are going to be fewer dual-income families. But it's just not true."

Such contentious stories conveniently mask the reality that most women have to work, regardless of their preference. They also obscure the fact that an absence of quality, affordable childcare and flexible working hours, among other family-friendly policies, greatly contributes to women's so-called "choice" to stay at home.

In the past few years, a series of sensational stories have pitted stay-at-home mothers against "working women" in what the media coyly call the "mommy wars." When the New York Times ran a story on the controversy, one woman wrote the editor, "The word 'choice' has been used...as a euphemism for unpaid labor, with no job security, no health or vacation benefits and no retirement plans. No wonder men are not clamoring for this 'choice.' Many jobs in the workplace also involve drudgery, but do not leave one financially dependent on another person."

Most institutions, in fact, have not implemented policies that support family life. As a result, many women do feel compelled to choose between work and family. In Scandinavian countries, where laws provide for generous parental leave and subsidized childcare, women participate in the labor force at far greater rates than here--evidence that "opting out" is, more often than not, the result of a poverty of acceptable options.

http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/coffeehouse/20...the_care_crisis


This really struck a chord with me. The last 30 years or so have seen profound change in American Family life. When I was a kid in the 1970s, most moms "stayed at home" with their children and tended to the care of their children, and I do remember a lot of kids that had grandparents living with them.

When I was in High School, my mom went back to work, as did a lot of my friends moms, as money started getting tighter. As girls, we were encouraged to look for careers, and I remember some of my friends making fun of one girl that planned on marrying and having a family right out of high school. I stuck up for her, and it did get me thinking about my career in a different light. I went into the Graphic Arts because I thought it would be something I could do "at home" while I raised children.

I was correct, and I guess it was my "individual solution" to a National dilemma. For me there was no "choice" involved. I had to work. My daughter was rarely in daycare, and in it mostly for the reason that all of the other kids WERE there. She had no one to play with. When I moved out of a blue collar neighborhood into a white collar one, I didn't fit in with the "stay-at-home moms" or the "working moms," as I was a bit of both. Or maybe I should say I sort of fit in with both, as I had friends in both "camps." Somehow, it seems to me that both sets somewhat resent the other, (Mommy Wars) and perhaps that is why women as a group haven't banded together to insist on more solution based legislation. Now that my daughter is old enough to be a real help around the house, she is busy helping a couple across the street with their daycare issues. I can't catch a break!

I do know that in attempting to do it all and 'have it all,' I exhausted myself and my health suffered. It was something I wanted to do, it made me feel good. I still remember and am proud of the way other people thought of me as a "supermom." My house was always clean--not tidy, but clean-- the bills were paid, and my child very well cared for. I am quite sure my eventual exhaustion isn't anything remarkable. Most women likely experience it after a while Something has to give, and it's usually either the housework, the childcare, or the "dependable" status as a worker. After a while women have to prioritize and that decision is as individual as they are.

I do think that this is a real problem, and absent of "blaming the feminists" for everything, I'd like to hear what people think is a solution to this problem.

Ideas?
Arturo_Vandelay

One thing changes another. More emancipated women with choices to leave marriage more easily, the ability to survive without marrying, more divorce, more single people. More labor supply cutting wages. Less cohesion of the family. If mom and dad are broken up, it sure changes the way the kids think and how their plans to support the elderly evolve.

Society has changed from top to bottom. While rotating out of our racquetball game I as listening in on the Pilates class and even though the instructor was talking about how married people were happier, it seemed everyone was VERY skeptical of marriage. It's pretty obvious it isn't because the women don't like men, but they seem to have soured on the whole idea of one partnership for a lifetime.

With every person for themselves life is bound to be different than it would be with a family homestead and people tied to it by marriage and tradition.
Bee
Frankly, if I had the energy I'd still be doing it. I think there are limits to what we can do, and women in particular have reached their limits. It is a societal problem and one that I am at a loss of how to handle. Womens liberation hasn't been very liberating in many ways.
beasty
QUOTE(Bee @ Mar 19 2007, 10:02 AM) [snapback]290028[/snapback]

Frankly, if I had the energy I'd still be doing it. I think there are limits to what we can do, and women in particular have reached their limits. It is a societal problem and one that I am at a loss of how to handle. Womens liberation hasn't been very liberating in many ways.



Being expected to show up at work every day for a lifetime isn't all that freeing to the soul. Now single women are stuck with that, and divorced women are stuck with work AND kids most of the time. (even if the husband wants custody)

Being liberated into the real world isn't always a great experience. Like a dog escaped from the yard or a child lost in the woods, it can be dangerous and scary if you aren't used to, or trained for it.
Bee
QUOTE(beasty @ Mar 19 2007, 01:08 PM) [snapback]290029[/snapback]

Being expected to show up at work every day for a lifetime isn't all that freeing to the soul. Now single women are stuck with that, and divorced women are stuck with work AND kids most of the time. (even if the husband wants custody)

Being liberated into the real world isn't always a great experience. Like a dog escaped from the yard or a child lost in the woods, it can be dangerous and scary if you aren't used to, or trained for it.


And Most married women are stuck with that, beasty. Stuck with that AND the household. That's my point. And that it changed so very quickly. I'm not sure how that happened.

The only difference between the 9 to 5ers and me is I fit work into my childs schedule. Ask around, lots of posters here know how I worked into the wee hours all the time. biggrin.gif

One reason I loved CSPAN and this place is that no matter when I'm up, there's always someone around, so it's not so lonely. smile.gif
Arturo_Vandelay
QUOTE(Bee @ Mar 19 2007, 10:15 AM) [snapback]290033[/snapback]

And Most married women are stuck with that, beasty. Stuck with that AND the household. That's my point. And that it changed so very quickly. I'm not sure how that happened.

The only difference between the 9 to 5ers and me is I fit work into my childs schedule. Ask around, lots of posters here know how I worked into the wee hours all the time. biggrin.gif

One reason I loved CSPAN and this place is that no matter when I'm up, there's always someone around, so it's not so lonely. smile.gif


Beasty doesn't stick his GF or ex with the kids and house. That's why he hardly ever gets to come around on the weekend or at night. sad.gif

This isn't exactly 24/7, but what you post will have an audience sooner or later. I notice about 8 page views per post, and that includes views that surely see a whole page of 10+ posts. It isn't like having a friend on the phone at any hour, but you can rant and know somebody will see it.
Bee
QUOTE(Arturo_Vandelay @ Mar 19 2007, 01:31 PM) [snapback]290039[/snapback]

Beasty doesn't stick his GF or ex with the kids and house. That's why he hardly ever gets to come around on the weekend or at night. sad.gif

This isn't exactly 24/7, but what you post will have an audience sooner or later. I notice about 8 page views per post, and that includes views that surely see a whole page of 10+ posts. It isn't like having a friend on the phone at any hour, but you can rant and know somebody will see it.


Our loss, beasty's GFs gain. That's how it should be, I guess.

Actually, AV, this place IS pretty much 24/7. There usually are people around. They don't always post, but they are around.

smile.gif I oughta know.
Arturo_Vandelay
QUOTE(Bee @ Mar 19 2007, 10:37 AM) [snapback]290041[/snapback]

Our loss, beasty's GFs gain. That's how it should be, I guess.

Actually, AV, this place IS pretty much 24/7. There usually are people around. They don't always post, but they are around.

smile.gif I oughta know.


Oh, I know that. I was mostly speaking of getting a response. Though at the old C-Span the response probably would have been Fast Eddie followed by the Magna Carta. laugh.gif
Bee
Space is a real night owl. smile.gif Grig was one, too.
beasty
QUOTE(Bee @ Mar 19 2007, 10:44 AM) [snapback]290043[/snapback]

Space is a real night owl. smile.gif Grig was one, too.


RottenCod is a late night vampire as well. Bay is out late sometimes. SRX is in late. Surely some lurkers. A days worth of posts plus links is a lot to get through, though I doubt any lurkers go through it all.

Sometimes when I can't sleep I pop on for a few minutes to check email, or write a quick note, but don't usually post.
Bee
That one has always been, too wink.gif

I seen ya around. I'll say hello next time.

Arturo_Vandelay
QUOTE(Bee @ Mar 19 2007, 11:12 AM) [snapback]290050[/snapback]

That one has always been, too wink.gif

I seen ya around. I'll say hello next time.



Papgym is another that signs on to lurk. It would be nice if lurkers took just a sec to comment on a story or post, or post something of interest they've seen in the news recently. Hell, post things you wrote for other forums if you want.
bay
QUOTE(Bee @ Mar 19 2007, 01:37 PM) [snapback]290011[/snapback]

This really struck a chord with me. The last 30 years or so have seen profound change in American Family life. ................
Ideas?

Bee, YOU KNOW this is one of my favorite subjects. I can't respond right now
but I'll be back..... smile.gif
Bee
QUOTE(Arturo_Vandelay @ Mar 19 2007, 02:32 PM) [snapback]290052[/snapback]

Papgym is another that signs on to lurk. It would be nice if lurkers took just a sec to comment on a story or post, or post something of interest they've seen in the news recently. Hell, post things you wrote for other forums if you want.


I do that. Sometimes. biggrin.gif

QUOTE(bay @ Mar 19 2007, 02:42 PM) [snapback]290056[/snapback]

Bee, YOU KNOW this is one of my favorite subjects. I can't respond right now
but I'll be back..... smile.gif


I was hoping you would, ma'am. smile.gif
Arturo_Vandelay
QUOTE(Bee @ Mar 19 2007, 11:54 AM) [snapback]290061[/snapback]

I do that. Sometimes. biggrin.gif




Just don't sue yourself and me for copyright infringement.
SherryB
Since this thread is about "Family Values" I'll put this here:


Entire Field Of Credible Dem Candidates Has Gotten Fewer Divorces Than Rudy Alone

March 19, 2007 -- 04:21 PM EST

Here's Joe Klein, writing in Time magazine about the Republican Presidential candidates' predilection for getting divorces:

Then again, the Republicans are fielding a motley crew right now: if you count Newt Gingrich, who'll probably join the fray in the fall, the four leading candidates have had nine marriages among them: Giuliani three, Gingrich three, McCain two and Romney one. The Republican faithful are left with a devil of a choice: moderate candidates who live like liberals, or religious conservatives who talk like liberals.
So Klein thinks getting a divorce is living like a "liberal"?


Okay, he obviously intends "live like liberals" to mean that this is how the "Republican faithful," not he himself, see this behavior (I think, anyway). So, not really objectionable. But, hey, I had to get your attention somehow, and besides, this suggests a useful question:

How many divorces have their been among the men -- and women -- in the Democratic field? Let's run through them real quick, just for the fun of it. None of the following liberal Dem candidates has gotten divorced:

(1) Hillary: You know the story. No need to repeat it

(2) Obama: Married to Michelle, whom he met when she was just out of law school, for 15 years.

(3) Edwards: Married to Elizabeth since 1977; they've had four children, one of whom was killed in a car crash. As Andrew Sullivan recently observed: "Most couples never survive the death of a child. The Edwards family did — and went on to have two more."

(4) Richardson: Married to his high-school sweetheart for 33 years.

(5) Biden: First wife killed in car accident in 1972; married to his current wife for almost 30 years.

Yeah, you have to really scrape your way to the bottom of the Democratic field to find divorces. The only Dem Presidential candidate with any kind of credible shot who has gotten divorced is...Chris Dodd, who divorced in 1982.

In fact, if you think about it, the entire field of Dems deemed credible boasts fewer divorces than Rudy Giuliani alone!

Yes, there's also Dennis Kucinich, who also has divorced twice. Nonetheless, the basic points here stand: The top four GOP candidates have divorced a total of five times, while the top four liberal candidates have a total of zero divorces among them. And the whole field of Dems seen to have a credible shot at winning has gotten fewer total divorces than the current GOP frontrunner. Not exactly heavy lifting, admittedly, but it certainly seems worth noting and keeping in mind.



Arturo_Vandelay
Must be why they call him a liberal Republican. Of course Bill Clinton has more girlfriends than the whole field has wives.
Nomarchy
QUOTE(Arturo_Vandelay @ Mar 19 2007, 03:42 PM) [snapback]290117[/snapback]

Must be why they call him a liberal Republican. Of course Bill Clinton has more girlfriends than the whole field has wives.


And, that in the end, is nobody else's business than his wife's.
Arturo_Vandelay
QUOTE(Nomarchy @ Mar 19 2007, 09:49 PM) [snapback]290164[/snapback]


And, that in the end, is nobody else's business than his wife's.


I doubt she cares, she has what she wants.
Nomarchy
QUOTE(Arturo_Vandelay @ Mar 19 2007, 09:54 PM) [snapback]290166[/snapback]

I doubt she cares, she has what she wants.


Why do you care, or should anyone else care?
Arturo_Vandelay
QUOTE(Nomarchy @ Mar 19 2007, 09:57 PM) [snapback]290168[/snapback]


Why do you care, or should anyone else care?


Anything lead you to believe I care? He's an unfaithful boor and she's a manipulating whore. A perfect couple.
Bee
Shouldn't that be unfaithful whore and manipulating boor? blink.gif biggrin.gif
Arturo_Vandelay
It's all good.

I really don't care what/who he does. It's just funny to watch the press ignore him.
Bee
I thought he got too much.

smile.gif
Arturo_Vandelay
They ignore his affairs, always have. As long as Rudy gets the same treatment I'm fine with it.
Nomarchy
QUOTE(Arturo_Vandelay @ Mar 19 2007, 11:48 PM) [snapback]290180[/snapback]

It's all good.

I really don't care what/who he does. It's just funny to watch the press ignore him.


What office is he holding? What office is he running for?

What did his alleged (probably actual) philandering have to do with his faitfully executing the duties of his office when he was prez?

QUOTE(Arturo_Vandelay @ Mar 20 2007, 12:43 AM) [snapback]290183[/snapback]

They ignore his affairs, always have. As long as Rudy gets the same treatment I'm fine with it.


The hell they did. They ignored his affairs and alleged affairs, my ass.
SpaceCowboy
QUOTE(Nomarchy @ Mar 20 2007, 12:51 PM) [snapback]290219[/snapback]

What office is he holding? What office is he running for?

What did his alleged (probably actual) philandering have to do with his faitfully executing the duties of his office when he was prez?
The hell they did. They ignored his affairs and alleged affairs, my ass.

Your ass? laugh.gif
Nomarchy
QUOTE(SpaceCowboy @ Mar 20 2007, 10:59 AM) [snapback]290221[/snapback]

Your ass? laugh.gif


Yes, I have donkeys in the communal yard, didn't ya know?

biggrin.gif
Bee
This thread has turned into garbage.

Time for the funeral. fark me, see if I'm ever serious again.
Human Ills
What do you expect when your originating post was asking for opinions OTHER than blaming feminism?
Nomarchy
QUOTE(Human Ills @ Mar 20 2007, 06:41 PM) [snapback]290261[/snapback]

What do you expect when your originating post was asking for opinions OTHER than blaming feminism?


Huh? Go ahead, "blame" feminism.

Define feminism, operationalize it, and the demonstrate that "feminism" is an independent causally significant factor in "modern family life" and that it is a more powerful causal factor than other theoretically-relevant factors (e.g. the decline of the median male wage for non-supervisiory, wage and salary employees, the transition from an 'industrial' to an 'information and services' economy, the dismantling of family-supportive legislation, etc.)
Nomarchy
http://www.census.gov/population/socdemo/m...70-97/tab01.pdf

QUOTE
Table 1. Marital History for People 15 Years and Over, by Age, Sex, Race, and Hispanic Origin: 2001
Source: U.S. Census Bureau
Internet release date: February 10, 2005
(Numbers in thousands, for meaning of symbols, see text.)


Very very useful data.


http://www.census.gov/population/socdemo/m...180/p23-180.pdf

Special Report on Marriage, Divorce and Remarriage in the 1990s.

Actually based on data from the 1980s with projections for the 1990s. Written in 1992.

Lord_Proprietor
QUOTE(Bee @ Mar 19 2007, 08:37 AM) [snapback]290011[/snapback]

This really struck a chord with me. The last 30 years or so have seen profound change in American Family life. When I was a kid in the 1970s, most moms "stayed at home" with their children and tended to the care of their children, and I do remember a lot of kids that had grandparents living with them.

When I was in High School, my mom went back to work, as did a lot of my friends moms, as money started getting tighter. As girls, we were encouraged to look for careers, and I remember some of my friends making fun of one girl that planned on marrying and having a family right out of high school. I stuck up for her, and it did get me thinking about my career in a different light. I went into the Graphic Arts because I thought it would be something I could do "at home" while I raised children.

I was correct, and I guess it was my "individual solution" to a National dilemma. For me there was no "choice" involved. I had to work. My daughter was rarely in daycare, and in it mostly for the reason that all of the other kids WERE there. She had no one to play with. When I moved out of a blue collar neighborhood into a white collar one, I didn't fit in with the "stay-at-home moms" or the "working moms," as I was a bit of both. Or maybe I should say I sort of fit in with both, as I had friends in both "camps." Somehow, it seems to me that both sets somewhat resent the other, (Mommy Wars) and perhaps that is why women as a group haven't banded together to insist on more solution based legislation. Now that my daughter is old enough to be a real help around the house, she is busy helping a couple across the street with their daycare issues. I can't catch a break!

Ideas?



I suspect, in those days, that your marital status had something to do with your "fitting in", in the community, don't you?
bay
QUOTE(Bee @ Mar 21 2007, 01:03 AM) [snapback]290255[/snapback]

This thread has turned into garbage.

Time for the funeral. fark me, see if I'm ever serious again.

QUOTE
http://www.dispatch.com/dispatch/content/b...28/circuit.html

Circuit City to fire 3,400 store workers, hire lower-paid replacements
Wednesday, March 28, 2007 10:40 AM

RICHMOND, Va. (AP) -- Circuit City Stores Inc. said today it plans to cut costs by laying off about 3,400 store workers and hiring lower-paid employees to replace them, and by trimming about 130 corporate jobs.
Its shares rose 3 percent in morning trading.
Circuit City, the nation's No. 2 consumer electronics retailer behind Best Buy Co. Inc., the store workers being laid off were earning "well above the market-based salary range for their role." They will be replaced with employees who will be paid at the current market range, the company said in a news release.
"We are taking a number of aggressive actions to improve our cost and expense structure, which will better position us for improved and sustainable returns in today's marketplace," Philip J. Schoonover, Circuit City's chief executive, said in a statement.
The Richmond-based company also plans to outsource its information-technology infrastructure operations to International Business Machines Corp., a move that is expected to cut IT expenses by more than 16 percent. About 50 of Circuit City's IT workers will move to jobs with IBM and remain on the Circuit City contract. The other 80 corporate positions will be cut.
The changes follow the company's announcement this winter of planned cost-cutting measures and management moves to improve sales and cut expenses.
In February, Circuit City terminated its lease on a previously closed distribution center in Columbus, Ohio, at a loss of $4.8 million, but the move is expected to cut costs associated with the lease by about $6 million. It also finished a previously announced closing of a Louisville, Ky., distribution center that was used primarily for store fixtures and signs.
In Circuit City's international operations, the company has hired Goldman Sachs to advise the company on strategic options for its InterTAN Inc. unit, which could include selling the business.
Circuit City closed about 55 stores in Canada in February as previously announced, and expects to close about 10 more stores in the first half of fiscal 2008.


QUOTE
ABSTRACT:

In 2001, 1.458 million American families filed for bankruptcy. To investigate medical contributors to bankruptcy, we surveyed 1,771 personal bankruptcy filers in five federal courts and subsequently completed in-depth interviews with 931 of them. About half cited medical causes, which indicates that 1.9–2.2 million Americans (filers plus dependents) experienced medical bankruptcy. Among those whose illnesses led to bankruptcy, out-of-pocket costs averaged $11,854 since the start of illness; 75.7 percent had insurance at the onset of illness. Medical debtors were 42 percent more likely than other debtors to experience lapses in coverage. Even middle-class insured families often fall prey to financial catastrophe when sick.
http://content.healthaffairs.org/cgi/conte...thaff.w5.63/DC1


Bee, I sincerely apologize. I forgot about your thread. This is imho quite possibly THE MOST IMPORTANT thread going just now.

As far back as March 31, 1993, textbooks were already educating college students that “1% of the population has more net income than the bottom 40% combined”. Fourteen years…. And I’m sure those statistics have gotten worse. The people in the boonies are getting restless. They know something is wrong; but they’re not even sure what it is, or how to correct it. Both political parties have abandoned us. The last sixteen years have been a disaster to all but the very wealthy.

Big business built this country; now they’re hell bent on tearing it down. Not the same caliber of people however. I’ve thought about this a lot. Americans are industrious, intelligent people. If they ever get smart enough to pool what little money they have left (and they had better hurry) and start small “privately owned by Americans” companies they could win the battle. (im most ho).

I looked for the statistics but couldn't find them on line; but I'm sure I heard some newschannel say that home bankruptcies were up 13%. I'll keep watching for verification on that. We have a crisis in this country. It's about seeing hungry kids, sick parents, homeless people. I sure hope we don't have to wade through religion, abortions, birth control or homosexuality before we address THE IMPORTANT STUFF. sad.gif
Arturo_Vandelay
A lot of those bankruptcies wouldn't happen if people who weren't poor would save just a little. Don't max out the credit cards for things you really don't need, don't buy used when they old one will last a bit longer.

Leave yourself some room to work if there's a catastrophy.

Catastophic healthcare problems could be pooled. I'm not for all encompassing UHC, but basic care and catastrophic care might as well be pooled and shared, with reasonable co-pays so nothing is free to people who can afford it.
Lord_Proprietor
QUOTE(bay @ Mar 30 2007, 10:50 AM) [snapback]292061[/snapback]

Bee, I sincerely apologize. I forgot about your thread. This is imho quite possibly THE MOST IMPORTANT thread going just now.

As far back as March 31, 1993, textbooks were already educating college students that “1% of the population has more net income than the bottom 40% combined”. Fourteen years…. And I’m sure those statistics have gotten worse. The people in the boonies are getting restless. They know something is wrong; but they’re not even sure what it is, or how to correct it. Both political parties have abandoned us. The last sixteen years have been a disaster to all but the very wealthy.

What kept you from becoming an Oprah W. or a B. Gates or a C. Rice. Had you aspired (great ambition or ultimate goal) you too could be in that top echelon? Or do you think some are "more gifted in 'intellect and drive' to achieve" in this capitalistic (free enterprise) society of ours and most of the world for that matter?



Big business built this country; now they’re hell bent on tearing it down. Not the same caliber of people however. I’ve thought about this a lot. Americans are industrious, intelligent people. If they ever get smart enough to pool what little money they have left (and they had better hurry) and start small “privately owned by Americans” companies they could win the battle. (im most ho).

The problem seems to be that too many of the Workers want to make the $ame income as the Owners, CEOs and Stockholders (you know the ones who risk their $$$$)! That attitude, is a holdover from when unions were so powerful and brainwashed the workers on socialistic tactics of redistribution. Too many appear to be more interested in redistribution instead of earned income! Think about that for awhile.



I looked for the statistics but couldn't find them on line; but I'm sure I heard some news channel say that home bankruptcies were up 13%. I'll keep watching for verification on that. We have a crisis in this country. It's about seeing hungry kids, sick parents, homeless people. I sure hope we don't have to wade through religion, abortions, birth control or homosexuality before we address THE IMPORTANT STUFF. sad.gif

As I said, too many of the "Workers" want to live in houses as big as the Owners, CEOs and Stockholders; they want the same yachts and second homes at the beach or mountains. Perhaps they should plan for a smaller "home" and drive one (1) small car and buy an outboard motor and a skiff! I'll bet their family life would be better without all those stressful debts hanging over their heads. Ever think about that?



Bee
QUOTE(Lord_Proprietor @ Mar 30 2007, 08:36 AM) [snapback]292043[/snapback]


I suspect, in those days, that your marital status had something to do with your "fitting in", in the community, don't you?



I have been married for nearly 21 years.

Did you have a point?

You are soo very full of it, too.

Most bankruptcies happen because of medical bills. I know all about them, I pay over $600 a month for Blue cross, and still owe hospitals and labs around $5,000 for what they didn't cover on my daughters illness.

That is an abomination that is played out everyday in this country. I however, am lucky, I have resources. People aren't "running up their credit cards" buyng "luxury items." They are charging groceries and medicine.

You are seriously out of touch, and a selfish, spoiled old man on top of it.

YOUR parents sacrificed plenty so you would live better then they did.

That type of honor and character is totally absent from your generation, and we all know it. Those in your generation with a modicum of character know it, too. But they aren't as LOUD, BELLIGERENT, and flat out NASTY as you and your ilk are. It makes us all breathless how decrept and horrid you are, but we're getting immune to it. Watch out.

Congratulations. You will go down as the most selfish and spoiled generation of Americans, ever. It's well deserved, and I'm sure the quiet majority of your fellows arent terribly pleased with your loud-mouthed ugliness.

Enjoy.
inyerface
IPB Image
Repub_Bub
QUOTE(inyerface @ Mar 30 2007, 03:39 PM) [snapback]292121[/snapback]

IPB Image

IPB Image
Bart Katz
QUOTE(Bee @ Mar 30 2007, 05:14 PM) [snapback]292117[/snapback]

I have been married for nearly 21 years.

Did you have a point?

You are soo very full of it, too.

Most bankruptcies happen because of medical bills. I know all about them, I pay over $600 a month for Blue cross, and still owe hospitals and labs around $5,000 for what they didn't cover on my daughters illness.

That is an abomination that is played out everyday in this country. I however, am lucky, I have resources. People aren't "running up their credit cards" buyng "luxury items." They are charging groceries and medicine.

You are seriously out of touch, and a selfish, spoiled old man on top of it.

YOUR parents sacrificed plenty so you would live better then they did.

That type of honor and character is totally absent from your generation, and we all know it. Those in your generation with a modicum of character know it, too. But they aren't as LOUD, BELLIGERENT, and flat out NASTY as you and your ilk are. It makes us all breathless how decrept and horrid you are, but we're getting immune to it. Watch out.

Congratulations. You will go down as the most selfish and spoiled generation of Americans, ever. It's well deserved, and I'm sure the quiet majority of your fellows arent terribly pleased with your loud-mouthed ugliness.

Enjoy.


Repost.
inyerface
ok

IPB Image
Human Ills
Boomers.
Lord_Proprietor
QUOTE(Bee @ Mar 30 2007, 05:14 PM) [snapback]292117[/snapback]

I have been married for nearly 21 years.

Did you have a point?

You are soo very full of it, too.

Most bankruptcies happen because of medical bills. I know all about them, I pay over $600 a month for Blue cross, and still owe hospitals and labs around $5,000 for what they didn't cover on my daughters illness.

That is an abomination that is played out everyday in this country. I however, am lucky, I have resources. People aren't "running up their credit cards" buyng "luxury items." They are charging groceries and medicine.

You are seriously out of touch, and a selfish, spoiled old man on top of it.

YOUR parents sacrificed plenty so you would live better then they did.

That type of honor and character is totally absent from your generation, and we all know it. Those in your generation with a modicum of character know it, too. But they aren't as LOUD, BELLIGERENT, and flat out NASTY as you and your ilk are. It makes us all breathless how decrept and horrid you are, but we're getting immune to it. Watch out.

Congratulations. You will go down as the most selfish and spoiled generation of Americans, ever. It's well deserved, and I'm sure the quiet majority of your fellows arent terribly pleased with your loud-mouthed ugliness.

Enjoy.



laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif Gee, I really did strike a nerve, didn't I?
Bart Katz
QUOTE(Lord_Proprietor @ Mar 30 2007, 10:38 PM) [snapback]292248[/snapback]

laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif Gee, I really did strike a nerve, didn't I?


It certainly appears so.
bay
Lord Proprietor's post #36, March 30, 2007

QUOTE
QUOTE(bay @ Mar 30 2007, 10:50 AM)
Bee, I sincerely apologize. I forgot about your thread. This is imho quite possibly THE MOST IMPORTANT thread going just now.

As far back as March 31, 1993, textbooks were already educating college students that “1% of the population has more net income than the bottom 40% combined”. Fourteen years…. And I’m sure those statistics have gotten worse. The people in the boonies are getting restless. They know something is wrong; but they’re not even sure what it is, or how to correct it. Both political parties have abandoned us. The last sixteen years have been a disaster to all but the very wealthy.

QUOTE
and LP replied:
#1. What kept you from becoming an Oprah W. or a B. Gates or a C. Rice. Had you aspired (great ambition or ultimate goal) you too could be in that top echelon? Or do you think some are "more gifted in 'intellect and drive' to achieve" in this capitalistic (free enterprise) society of ours and most of the world for that matter?

LP, sometimes you leave me speechless. WHY don’t you address the problem, instead of attacking ME; I am NOT the problem.

Since you started this train of thought…. why didn’t YOU become B.Gates, or Henry Ford or Jonas Salk?
I believe it’s not where you are that’s important, but where you started from and what you’ve accomplished in that journey. I had won first place in State in an essay contest and I wanted to study journalism so badly. I don’t owe you or anyone else the exact reason why I chose not to do that. However, many years later, my Granddaughter did graduate ( biggrin.gif tongue.gif let's just say with high honors, the blocking system seems to be working this morning - I thought "say what?" laugh.gif ) with a BA in Journalism from one of the best Schools of Journalism in the nation. (Only the beginning of her notable academic journey.) My Daughter and Son (with college degrees) also have top positions in their professions. So do I think some are more intelligent or have more drive? Absolutely. I think I had both the intelligence AND the drive but as I told my daughter so many times I’ve lost count, “nothing a Mother achieves in this life is worth anything if she fails in the most important thing she is charged with – raising good, responsible, educated with reason (pun intended), children. My goal was NOT be become an Oprah or Rice but to raise my kids to the best of my ability." But I'm not talking about myself or my family - do I not owe some consideration to those who are falling through the cracks through no fault of their own - even if it's just discussing the problem?




QUOTE
Big business built this country; now they’re hell bent on tearing it down. Not the same caliber of people however. I’ve thought about this a lot. Americans are industrious, intelligent people. If they ever get smart enough to pool what little money they have left (and they had better hurry) and start small “privately owned by Americans” companies they could win the battle. (im most ho).

QUOTE
and LP replied:
The problem seems to be that too many of the Workers want to make the $ame income as the Owners, CEOs and Stockholders (you know the ones who risk their $$$$)! That attitude, is a holdover from when unions were so powerful and brainwashed the workers on socialistic tactics of redistribution. Too many appear to be more interested in redistribution instead of earned income! Think about that for awhile.

I don’t have to think about it LP. Do you not think I’ve lived through non-union, union, and plant closings?
Been there and done that. I find the lack of good information the most depressing thing in that regard. I don’t know the answers; but I have to wonder if a board of concerned, retired, non-paid ex-workers that included personnel from the very top to the very bottom to advise “the people” of unintended consequences. If you’ve read my past posts you might remember that I have said the employer/employee relationship requires a very delicate balance. From my viewpoint of history it looks as if we went from a very poor employee base (forties) to a little better – union involvement more prevalent here (somebody correct me if I’m wrong) in the fifties, probably a pretty good balance in the sixties and seventies and then I suspect the unions did get too pushy. If this country could ever come up with any decent leadership, with the goal of representing ALL the people., it would have been to everyone’s advantage to have reigned them (the unions) in a little here. With the Auto, Transportation, and other high dollar industries giving their employees big wages and freebies, it put a pressure on every other industry. So we basically priced ourselves out of world competition and jobs. BUT just as the demands of the workers caused mega problems and hardships, so would something else that I haven’t heard mentioned.

Right now, we’re seeing CEO’s and top people making a thousand times more than the people at the bottom and that’s a hell of a lot more than “$ame income as the Owners, CEOs and Stockholders (you know the ones who risk their $$$$)!” My philosophy is that capitol and labor should stay in relative balance. The nation’s economy would stay healthier.




QUOTE
I looked for the statistics but couldn't find them on line; but I'm sure I heard some news channel say that home bankruptcies were up 13%. I'll keep watching for verification on that. We have a crisis in this country. It's about seeing hungry kids, sick parents, homeless people. I sure hope we don't have to wade through religion, abortions, birth control or homosexuality before we address THE IMPORTANT STUFF.

QUOTE
and LP replied:
As I said, too many of the "Workers" want to live in houses as big as the Owners, CEOs and Stockholders; they want the same yachts and second homes at the beach or mountains. Perhaps they should plan for a smaller "home" and drive one (1) small car and buy an outboard motor and a skiff! I'll bet their family life would be better without all those stressful debts hanging over their heads. Ever think about that


NO – LET ME TELL YOU WHAT THEY WANT. They want enough money to pay their rent or house payment, their utilities and food, gas to get to work. That’s not to mention a little money for health insurance or an occasional visit to the doctor or drug store. What universe are you living in??? I live in the boonies. Out here there are very rich people and very poor people. So I am lucky enough to have an opportunity to see how those two entities mesh.

I talked to a young couple yesterday. Her words to me “we are just very poor today”. I think she’s pregnant; they’re trying to attend college, work part time (although I’m guessing now it is several part time jobs). She’s trying to do what I didn’t do – get an education – but the likes of you would probably say “she needs to quit school and get a full time job” but then fifty years later when she hasn’t attained your prescribed level of prestige you say “Had you aspired (great ambition or ultimate goal) you too could be in that top echelon? “
Now this young lady, if indeed she is pregnant, will need to take some time off I would think. I would bet they don’t have health insurance; so what does she do?? If she were a daughter of the illegals she would get all that good stuff paid for. Because big business wants the illegals here to work for near-nothing so their greedy little CEO’s can say “just look how much profit I’m making for you guys”. It just disgust the hell out of me.

I have lived on this planet long enough to know there is a unspoken “quid pro quo”. I like options, because I hate to have no choices in the events that shape my life. I also know that when forced to endure something, over long periods of time, there is often retribution, even though that retribution has lasting bad consequences. I do hope the movers and shakers of this country realize that, because like a train headed for the Interstate they’d better figure a different route.

All it would take to give those greedy CEO’s their comeuppance would be for the consumers of this nation to get on their computers and start a chain of e-mails: "Let’s boycott -- Circuit City Stores Inc." And then systematically take that to all corporations trying to bring Americans to it's knees. Patriotism might take on a whole new meaning.

I’m not advocating civil disorder. I’m just saying what someone else is going to think of sooner or later. I would think it might be well for the Corporations to consider they’ve shoved about as far as it’s healthy to do or even back up a little.







SpaceCowboy
QUOTE(bay @ Mar 31 2007, 12:04 PM) [snapback]292369[/snapback]

Lord Proprietor's post #36, March 30, 2007



LP, sometimes you leave me speechless. WHY don’t you address the problem, instead of attacking ME; I am NOT the problem.

Since you started this train of thought…. why didn’t YOU become B.Gates, or Henry Ford or Jonas Salk?
I believe it’s not where you are that’s important, but where you started from and what you’ve accomplished in that journey. I had won first place in State in an essay contest and I wanted to study journalism so badly. I don’t owe you or anyone else the exact reason why I chose not to do that. However, many years later, my Granddaughter did graduate ( biggrin.gif tongue.gif let's just say with high honors, the blocking system seems to be working this morning - I thought "say what?" laugh.gif ) with a BA in Journalism from one of the best Schools of Journalism in the nation. (Only the beginning of her notable academic journey.) My Daughter and Son (with college degrees) also have top positions in their professions. So do I think some are more intelligent or have more drive? Absolutely. I think I had both the intelligence AND the drive but as I told my daughter so many times I’ve lost count, “nothing a Mother achieves in this life is worth anything if she fails in the most important thing she is charged with – raising good, responsible, educated with reason (pun intended), children. My goal was NOT be become an Oprah or Rice but to raise my kids to the best of my ability." But I'm not talking about myself or my family - do I not owe some consideration to those who are falling through the cracks through no fault of their own - even if it's just discussing the problem?

I don’t have to think about it LP. Do you not think I’ve lived through non-union, union, and plant closings?
Been there and done that. I find the lack of good information the most depressing thing in that regard. I don’t know the answers; but I have to wonder if a board of concerned, retired, non-paid ex-workers that included personnel from the very top to the very bottom to advise “the people” of unintended consequences. If you’ve read my past posts you might remember that I have said the employer/employee relationship requires a very delicate balance. From my viewpoint of history it looks as if we went from a very poor employee base (forties) to a little better – union involvement more prevalent here (somebody correct me if I’m wrong) in the fifties, probably a pretty good balance in the sixties and seventies and then I suspect the unions did get too pushy. If this country could ever come up with any decent leadership, with the goal of representing ALL the people., it would have been to everyone’s advantage to have reigned them (the unions) in a little here. With the Auto, Transportation, and other high dollar industries giving their employees big wages and freebies, it put a pressure on every other industry. So we basically priced ourselves out of world competition and jobs. BUT just as the demands of the workers caused mega problems and hardships, so would something else that I haven’t heard mentioned.

Right now, we’re seeing CEO’s and top people making a thousand times more than the people at the bottom and that’s a hell of a lot more than “$ame income as the Owners, CEOs and Stockholders (you know the ones who risk their $$$$)!” My philosophy is that capitol and labor should stay in relative balance. The nation’s economy would stay healthier.




NO – LET ME TELL YOU WHAT THEY WANT. They want enough money to pay their rent or house payment, their utilities and food, gas to get to work. That’s not to mention a little money for health insurance or an occasional visit to the doctor or drug store. What universe are you living in??? I live in the boonies. Out here there are very rich people and very poor people. So I am lucky enough to have an opportunity to see how those two entities mesh.

I talked to a young couple yesterday. Her words to me “we are just very poor today”. I think she’s pregnant; they’re trying to attend college, work part time (although I’m guessing now it is several part time jobs). She’s trying to do what I didn’t do – get an education – but the likes of you would probably say “she needs to quit school and get a full time job” but then fifty years later when she hasn’t attained your prescribed level of prestige you say “Had you aspired (great ambition or ultimate goal) you too could be in that top echelon? “
Now this young lady, if indeed she is pregnant, will need to take some time off I would think. I would bet they don’t have health insurance; so what does she do?? If she were a daughter of the illegals she would get all that good stuff paid for. Because big business wants the illegals here to work for near-nothing so their greedy little CEO’s can say “just look how much profit I’m making for you guys”. It just disgust the hell out of me.

I have lived on this planet long enough to know there is a unspoken “quid pro quo”. I like options, because I hate to have no choices in the events that shape my life. I also know that when forced to endure something, over long periods of time, there is often retribution, even though that retribution has lasting bad consequences. I do hope the movers and shakers of this country realize that, because like a train headed for the Interstate they’d better figure a different route.

All it would take to give those greedy CEO’s their comeuppance would be for the consumers of this nation to get on their computers and start a chain of e-mails: "Let’s boycott -- Circuit City Stores Inc." And then systematically take that to all corporations trying to bring Americans to it's knees. Patriotism might take on a whole new meaning.

I’m not advocating civil disorder. I’m just saying what someone else is going to think of sooner or later. I would think it might be well for the Corporations to consider they’ve shoved about as far as it’s healthy to do or even back up a little.


Great reply. cool.gif
Bart Katz
I ain't real rich and I can't recall any serious disasters for me, but maybe I'm just not paying attention.
SpaceCowboy
QUOTE(Bart Katz @ Mar 31 2007, 12:12 PM) [snapback]292374[/snapback]

I ain't real rich and I can't recall any serious disasters for me, but maybe I'm just not paying attention.

I think you had a great work experience with all or most of your career with one large outstanding American company. It's the lack of job continuity that introduces both real and perceived risk to workers nowadays.
bay
QUOTE(SpaceCowboy @ Mar 31 2007, 05:10 PM) [snapback]292373[/snapback]

Great reply. cool.gif

Thank you. I appreciate it. smile.gif
patheticJT
Seattle-Area Pedophile Has 'How-to' Web Site for Men Seeking Little Girl Activities

Friday , March 30, 2007

Excerpt:

SEATTLE —
A Web site created by a pedophile is a virtual "how-to" manual, complete with the best places in western Washington state to see little girls, and tips on how to avoid getting caught by the police.

The site, titled "Seattle-Tacoma-Everett Girl Love," has been around for a few years. The police know all about it, yet they say they can't shut it down because the site is legal.

"As disturbing and offensive as we find this, there's no evidence of a crime, or even suspicion of illegal activity," said Rebecca Hover of the Snohomish County Sheriff's Department.

The man who runs it, 45-year-old Jack McClellan, has never been convicted of a sex crime, which means he can attend any family-friendly events where children are present, and take all the pictures he wants for his Web site. He also lives close to a school bus stop.

McClellan says his purpose is to promote association, friendship and legal, consensual hugging and cuddling between men and pre-pubescent girls. He admitted to FOX News that his "age of attraction" is between 3 and 11 years old.

"I guess the main thing is I just think they're cute, a lot cuter than women. I admit there is kind of an erotic arousal there," McClellan said.

"It makes me happy simply. Like I said, I think girls are cute, beautiful, just children in general make me happy ... being around lots of them. ... I'm doing what anyone else would do with a hobby. If someone's into birds they're taking pictures of birds. I'm convinced that none of these images are illegal."

McClellan wants to bring pedophiles out of the closet and give them a way to get some relief, by going out and being around little girls. He suggests a number of places, such as plays at elementary schools, parks, swimming pools and libraries.


SCREW THIS STUFF............JAMES DOBSON IS THE REAL CRIMINAL.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2009 Invision Power Services, Inc.