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Mizilus
QUOTE(Bee @ Oct 17 2005, 05:00 PM)
IOW. Miz wants the Anti-Donut Party. Mr. Rosano playing the part of the good Bishop Potter.
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Oh I'll give 'em a donut. A hurts donit!
Bee
QUOTE(RoccoR @ Oct 17 2005, 09:14 PM)
Bee, et al,

I have to chuckle here.
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One good chuckle deserves another. smile.gif

QUOTE(RoccoR @ Oct 17 2005, 07:25 PM)
Every now and then, the stench builds up and the leach field becomes saturated to such a disgusting point, that the tank needs pumped-out and the leach field treated to reduce the stink.  Like any septic tank, it needs cleaned-out periodically or the smell becomes overwhelming.  That is the nature of politics and raw sewage.  While Capitol Hill is a nice place from afar, you have to be careful of getting too close.  Like any leach field, you might step in something and ruin your shoes.
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QUOTE(Mizilus @ Oct 17 2005, 07:45 PM)
Or at the very least certain turds should be forbidden from ever entering the system.
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user posted image
QUOTE
Will a day come when the race will detect the funniness of these juvenilities and laugh at them--and by laughing at them destroy them? For your race, in its poverty, has unquestionably one really effective weapon--laughter. Power, Money, Persuasion, Supplication, Persecution--these can lift at a colossal humbug,--push it a little-- crowd it a little--weaken it a little, century by century: but only Laughter can blow it to rags and atoms at a blast. Against the assault of Laughter nothing can stand.
--Mark Twain
Grigorii
It is my belief the system is too corrupted to save through the democratic process as we have come to understand it.. Does anyone know of an honest general with a good supply of courage some hemp rope and a white horse. It would be interesting to see the patriot act used on those who thought it up.
Arturo_Vandelay
QUOTE(Grigorii @ Oct 17 2005, 06:49 PM)
It is my belief the system is too corrupted to save through the democratic process as we have come to understand it.. Does anyone know of an honest general with a good supply of courage some hemp rope and a white horse. It would be interesting to see the patriot act used on those who thought it up.
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Mao and Stalin are gone, and my Mom would kick the shit out of Nader.

There's a downside to being the political persuasion that prides itself on caring, sharing and non-violence.

But your side doesn't know how to accessorize better.
davis¹³
QUOTE
The Iran/Contra Debacle happened during the Presidency that is most hailed by historians and the common people. Seldom do you find anyone to openly criticize the Reagan Administration. You will not find many that say that the Reagan Administration did not have a "respect for the Constitution, Law, Democracy, Freedom, Morals or Values."


Bullshit. Trading THOUSANDS of missiles to TERRORISTS was illegal at best, treasonous at worse. Dealing with cocaine smugglers was a great thing too. Morals and values my ass.

But about the worse thing they did was set up the Office of Public Diplomacy under the control of Otto Reich which was formed to sway DOMESTIC political and media big wheels. When they failed at their mission they started the rightwing media machine, the worse thing to happen to this country in decades.

Nooooo Rocco, Poindexter, North and Abrams are not fine patriots, they are the worse this country has to offer. They should be in prison.

The Reagan administration had NO "respect for the Constitution, Law, Democracy, Freedom, Morals or Values."
I certainly criticize him. I didn't like him either. The Iran/Contra scam was a tipping point for me. Lying felons. Then when Bush started hiring those militant assholes I knew we were in trouble.


But the Bush administration has even less respect for the law than they did.

Grigorii
QUOTE(Arturo_Vandelay @ Oct 17 2005, 08:04 PM)


But your side doesn't know how to accessorize better.
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They are learning to find thier way back to themselfs...and how to count.
Grigorii
BTW I never said Nader wasen't a wimp, he a nice wimp. I just said he was right. It's going to take some sterner stuff to sort out the crooks runing washington.
Arturo_Vandelay
QUOTE(Grigorii @ Oct 17 2005, 07:10 PM)
They are learning to find thier way back to themselfs...and how to count.
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Good, maybe the next generation will have some econ majors.

QUOTE
BTW I never said Nader wasen't a wimp, he a nice wimp.



I don't find him particularly nice. No family, pets, warmth, personality. Just a tacky suit with a couple taglines and a history of griping a lot.

QUOTE
It's going to take some sterner stuff to sort out the crooks runing washington.


I will admit that it was interesting to see Nader get screwed by the Dems more than Reps. I have little doubt were he to wake up emperor a lot of Dems would be dead before nightfall. Then Jews and Republicans.

My guess is that given power he would be QUITE stern. Just a look at his reaction to being pied (probably by Dems) revealed a VERY angry and hateful man.
Mizilus
lets see AWOL get pied and see what happens. Of course he would not (and never will) get that close to actual human beings.
Grigorii
QUOTE(Arturo_Vandelay @ Oct 17 2005, 08:25 PM)
Good, maybe the next generation will have some econ majors.
I don't find him particularly nice. No family, pets, warmth, personality. Just a tacky suit with a couple  taglines and a history of griping a lot.
I will admit that it was interesting to see Nader get screwed by the Dems more than Reps. I have little doubt were he to wake up emperor a lot of Dems would be dead before nightfall. Then Jews and Republicans.

My guess is that given power he would be QUITE stern. Just a look at his reaction to being pied (probably by Dems) revealed a VERY angry and hateful man.
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I see so first your mother can whip Nader now he's some sort of anti-Semitic avenging angle who is capable of mayhem and murder. Maybe you just hate him because he is an Arab American native son. Try not to be so effing obvious…

Nader loves Democracy, this country and has spent his life trying to improve the country…what have you done for America lately besides smear some of it’s finest?
Arturo_Vandelay
QUOTE(Grigorii @ Oct 17 2005, 09:09 PM)
I see so first your mother can whip Nader now he's some sort of anti-Semitic avenging angle who is capable of mayhem and murder. Maybe you just hate him because he is an Arab American native son. Try not to be so effing obvious…

Nader loves Democracy, this country and has spent his life trying to improve the country…what have you done for America lately besides smear some of it’s finest?
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I don't care about Arabs either way. Don't think he'd do anything himself, but as a fringe political character I don't trust him as far as I can throw him.(which would be a ways) Him being a humorless idealogue would scare me, if most everyone in America didn't see through him to the point he can't get even Greens to vote for him.

Nader loves Canada enough to write a book about it, when he does the same for the US maybe we'll talk.
Nomarchy
QUOTE
I don't trust him as far as I can throw him.(which would be a ways)


Well, that's the most important thing.
SRX
QUOTE(Nomarchy @ Oct 17 2005, 09:30 PM)
Well, that's the most important thing.
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It looks fair. For a politician trusting "a ways" is like "a ways" is a distance to Carl Sagan.
judy
Tom DeLay judge supports MoveOn.org
Perkins contributed to Kerry, DNC, Soros front



When Rep. Tom DeLay is booked this Friday on charges of money laundering, the presiding judge will be a Democrat Party activist who has contributed money to the presidential campaign of Sen. John Kerry, the Democratic National Committee and the George Soros-backed MoveOn.org.

(that makes sense.... the prosecutor is a Democrat Party activist)
DeLay will face booking in a Texas county jail before Judge Bob Perkins despite attempts by his attorneys to bypass the fingerprinting and mugshot process.


The former House majority leader was forced to step down from the post when he was indicted by a Texas grand jury. DeLay initially was charged with conspiracy to violate the election code and days later was indicted on charges of money laundering and conspiracy to launder money in an alleged illegal scheme to funnel corporate money to Republican Texas legislative candidates.

Before Friday, DeLay will likely spend about an hour being fingerprinted and photographed. He'll also be required to state his attorneys for the record.

Travis County allows some defendants to do a "walkthrough" booking process, in which the defendant is photographed and fingerprinted. But DeLay's bond amount would be preset so he could immediately pay it and avoid a stay in jail.

DeLay also could waive going before a magistrate to have his rights and charges read to him.

At Friday's court appearance, Perkins has the discretion to rule on motions to dismiss the charges, as requested by defense attorneys, but may elect to do so at a later date.

(Does anyone think Perkins will DISMISS the charges???) wink.gif

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article....RTICLE_ID=46895
judy
DeLay Offered Deal Before Indictment

WASHINGTON

A Texas prosecutor tried to persuade Rep. Tom DeLay to plead guilty to a misdemeanor and save his job as majority leader but DeLay refused, the congressman's attorney said Monday.

Dick DeGuerin described such an effort in a letter to the prosecutor in the case, Travis County District Attorney Ronnie Earle.

DeLay has been indicted on conspiracy and money laundering charges in a Texas campaign finance investigation, both felonies. He was obligated to step aside under House Republican rules.

"Before the first indictment you tried to coerce a guilty plea from Tom DeLay for a misdemeanor, stating the alternative was indictment for a felony which would require his stepping down as majority leader of the United States House of Representatives," DeGuerin wrote.

"He turned you down flat so you had him indicted, in spite of advice from others in your office that Tom DeLay had not committed any crime," the lawyer contended. "In short, neither lack of evidence nor lack of law has deterred you."

It's Politics!

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/10/17/D8DA0IHG0.html

SRX
QUOTE(judy @ Oct 17 2005, 09:37 PM)


(Does anyone think Perkins will DISMISS the charges???) wink.gif


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Actually, after you get some fantastic pictures and ruin his reputation the charges may not mean much. DeLay might as well fight it all the way because republicans will be looking for spoils just like the democrats are. He's not likely to get back his position, why not declare war.
SpaceCowboy
QUOTE(SpeedRacerXxtreme @ Oct 17 2005, 11:50 PM)
Actually, after you get some fantastic pictures and ruin his reputation the charges may not mean much. DeLay might as well fight it all the way because republicans will be looking for spoils just like the democrats are. He's not likely to get back his position, why not declare war.
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I do believe he already has.
SpaceCowboy
QUOTE(judy @ Oct 17 2005, 11:44 PM)
DeLay Offered Deal Before Indictment[/font

[font=Impact]"He turned you down flat so you had him indicted, in spite of advice from others in your office that Tom DeLay had not committed any crime," the lawyer contended. "In short, neither lack of evidence nor lack of law has deterred you."
 

It's Politics!

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/10/17/D8DA0IHG0.html
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And if they hadn't offered the usual deal, DeGuerin would have attacked that.
Nomarchy
QUOTE
and ruin his reputation


At least you didn't say "ruin his good name". At least, this way, you can claim that you didn't mean his reputation as anything but a lying scumbag who's the "Hammer".
SRX
QUOTE(SpaceCowboy @ Oct 17 2005, 09:55 PM)
I do believe he already has.
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No blood yet.
SpaceCowboy
QUOTE(SpeedRacerXxtreme @ Oct 18 2005, 12:01 AM)
No blood yet.
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Friends in Austin say Delay is running attack ads against Earle on the local TV outlets.
SpaceCowboy
For those who don't know, Texas elects both prosecutors and judges, all the way up to and including its Supreme Court.

So all Judges and prosecutors are going to have a party affiliation.
Nomarchy
QUOTE(SpaceCowboy @ Oct 17 2005, 09:04 PM)
Friends in Austin say Delay is running attack ads against Earle on the local TV outlets.
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Well, we do have equality in the eyes of the law in America . . .

I can just see it, now, attack ads against prosecutors paid for by 'Friends of So and So" whenever a white-collar criminal is indicted. Plenty of 'Friends of White-Collar Criminals" around, with deep pockets.

Why, it's their freedom of speech that is at stake . . .

SpaceCowboy
QUOTE(Nomarchy @ Oct 18 2005, 12:09 AM)
Well, we do have equality in the eyes of the law in America . . .

I can just see it, now, attack ads against prosecutors paid for by 'Friends of So and So" whenever a white-collar criminal is indicted. Plenty of 'Friends of White-Collar Criminals" around, with deep pockets.

Why, it's their freedom of speech that is at stake . . .
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Free Mumia!
SRX
QUOTE(SpaceCowboy @ Oct 17 2005, 10:04 PM)
Friends in Austin say Delay is running attack ads against Earle on the local TV outlets.
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So I heard, and Earle is getting major media coverage. But it's hardly war yet. Maybe a little border skirmish.
SpaceCowboy
It's rare when a criminal defendant has the raw power to go after the prosecutor directly.

The usual approach even for rich folk is to try the case in court.
SRX
QUOTE(SpaceCowboy @ Oct 17 2005, 10:10 PM)
Free Mumia!
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The only price anyone would pay.

Human Ills
QUOTE(SpaceCowboy @ Oct 16 2005, 07:14 AM)
"The other guys do it too" isn't much  of a defense when the speakers ran against the "others" corruption to begin with.

Not to mention the fact that the "they did it too" defense is itself an admission of guilt.
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DeLay ISN"T saying "they did it too". Now is he?
Human Ills
QUOTE(davis¹³ @ Oct 16 2005, 02:48 PM)
Yeah, tell me about it. I heard Cleland had a commie negro baby on welfare who was a lesbian terrorist sympathiser.
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Your mom?
SpaceCowboy
QUOTE(Human Ills @ Oct 18 2005, 12:16 AM)
DeLay ISN"T saying "they did it too". Now is he?
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Some folks have been. It's all politics, and so forth.
SRX
QUOTE(SpaceCowboy @ Oct 17 2005, 10:12 PM)
It's rare when a criminal defendent has the raw power to go after the prosecutor directly.

The usual approach even for rich folk, is to try the case in court.
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Rich folks use the media all they can, but most don't have sworn enemies over anything less than murder or child molesting. Earle tipped his hand too early, and for a partisan crowd.
Nomarchy
QUOTE(SpeedRacerXxtreme @ Oct 17 2005, 09:15 PM)
The only price anyone would pay.
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Ok, that's hands-down FUNNY.

biggrin.gif
Human Ills
ROFLMAO!!

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/nation/3397339

AUSTIN - Travis County prosecutors admitted Friday they lack physical proof of a list of Republican candidates that is at the heart of money-laundering indictments against U.S. Rep. Tom DeLay and two of his associates.

The list is key to prosecutors being able to prove that corporate money that could not be legally spent on Texas candidates was specifically exchanged at the national level for donations that legally could be spent on Republican candidates for the Texas House.

Indictments against DeLay, Jim Ellis and John Colyandro state that Ellis gave "a document that contained the names of several candidates for the Texas House" to a Republican National Committee official in 2002 in a scheme to swap $190,000 in restricted corporate money for the same amount of money from individuals that could be legally used by Texas candidates.

But prosecutors said Friday in court that they only had a "similar" list and not the one allegedly received by then-RNC Deputy Director Terry Nelson. Late in the day, they released a list of 17 Republican candidates, but only seven are alleged to have received money in the scheme.

<Prediction>
Davey doo is going to be whining very soon.
Human Ills
QUOTE(SpaceCowboy @ Oct 17 2005, 09:18 PM)
Some folks have been. It's all politics, and so forth.
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Your point is that it's an admission of guilt. My point is that DeLay has made no such "admission".
SRX
QUOTE(Nomarchy @ Oct 17 2005, 10:20 PM)
Ok, that's hands-down FUNNY.

biggrin.gif
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It was too obvious, but I did it anyway. And left off the political part I was thinking of.
SpaceCowboy
QUOTE(Human Ills @ Oct 18 2005, 12:22 AM)
ROFLMAO!!

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/nation/3397339

AUSTIN - Travis County prosecutors admitted Friday they lack physical proof of a list of Republican candidates that is at the heart of money-laundering indictments against U.S. Rep. Tom DeLay and two of his associates.

The list is key to prosecutors being able to prove that corporate money that could not be legally spent on Texas candidates was specifically exchanged at the national level for donations that legally could be spent on Republican candidates for the Texas House.

Indictments against DeLay, Jim Ellis and John Colyandro state that Ellis gave "a document that contained the names of several candidates for the Texas House" to a Republican National Committee official in 2002 in a scheme to swap $190,000 in restricted corporate money for the same amount of money from individuals that could be legally used by Texas candidates.

But prosecutors said Friday in court that they only had a "similar" list and not the one allegedly received by then-RNC Deputy Director Terry Nelson. Late in the day, they released a list of 17 Republican candidates, but only seven are alleged to have received money in the scheme.

<Prediction>
Davey doo is going to be whining very soon.
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Likely red herring by DeGuerin again.


Nelson is the Republican official at the RNC Washington end. How will he testify?

QUOTE
Nelson's testimony is key
Without the exact list, the prosecutors' case against DeLay, Ellis and Colyandro likely turns on Nelson's testimony. Nelson testified at least twice to grand juries hearing the case.

"That would be something Mr. Nelson could testify to, and the jury could weigh the testimony and decide whether to accept it or whether he's confused about what list he saw three or four years ago in the midst of a heated election cycle," Pauerstein said.

Lawyers for Ellis and Colyandro demanded a copy of the list from Travis County prosecutors during the court hearing Friday. But Assistant District Attorney Rick Reed told state District Judge Bob Perkins that the list prosecutors wanted to provide the defense was not the one mentioned in the indictment.
SpaceCowboy
QUOTE(Human Ills @ Oct 18 2005, 12:23 AM)
Your point is that it's an admission of guilt. My point is that DeLay has made no such "admission".
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Correct. Although one can argue I did it, but it wasn't illegal.

Agreed.
Friend Judy
QUOTE(Human Ills @ Oct 17 2005, 11:16 PM)
DeLay ISN"T saying "they did it too". Now is he?
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Uh, yes, he did, on one of the interview shows. Paraphrasing, "29 other states have laws similar to Texas', and both parties routinely use such means to redirect donations."
Human Ills
QUOTE(Friend Judy @ Oct 17 2005, 09:33 PM)
Uh, yes, he did, on one of the interview shows.  Paraphrasing, "29 other states have laws similar to Texas', and both parties routinely use such means to redirect donations."
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Provide link. I didn't see it.
SRX
If it isn't illegal and both sides do it, how can you be "guilty"?
Nomarchy
QUOTE(Human Ills @ Oct 17 2005, 09:36 PM)
Provide link. I didn't see it.
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D'ya think she's editorializing or outright fabricating that paraphrase?
SpaceCowboy
QUOTE(SpeedRacerXxtreme @ Oct 18 2005, 12:37 AM)
If it isn't illegal and both sides do it, how can you be "guilty"?
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Whether or not "it's legal" will be determined by a jury.
Human Ills
QUOTE(Nomarchy @ Oct 17 2005, 09:38 PM)
D'ya think she's editorializing or outright fabricating that paraphrase?
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How can I say? I haven't seen the clip.
SRX
QUOTE(SpaceCowboy @ Oct 17 2005, 10:41 PM)
Whether or not "it's legal" will be determined by a jury.
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Only they can rightfully say you're guilty, and only in a legal sense. If you want to judge moral guilt a church might be a better place.
Human Ills
That's true. Juries are generally instructed not to bother themselves with the "is it legal" or "should it be illegal" by the judge. Illegally, in my opinion, I would add.
Nomarchy
QUOTE(Human Ills @ Oct 17 2005, 09:42 PM)
How can I say? I haven't seen the clip.
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This is one of those 'moral tests'. Do you think FJ would go as far as to fabricate a paraphrase just to score a couple of points? That's my question.
Human Ills
Or should I say contraConstitutionally?
Nomarchy
QUOTE(Human Ills @ Oct 17 2005, 09:45 PM)
That's true. Juries are generally instructed not to bother themselves with the "is it legal" or "should it be illegal" by the judge. Illegally, in my opinion, I would add.
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Illegally? How so? Are juries the second branch of the legislature, now?
Human Ills
QUOTE(Nomarchy @ Oct 17 2005, 09:45 PM)
This is one of those 'moral tests'. Do you think FJ would go as far as to fabricate a paraphrase just to score a couple of points? That's my question.
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I know what you're getting at. I'm telling you I have the good sense not to bite in this particular instance. My position, that I couldn't say, is the correct stance to take.
Human Ills
QUOTE(Nomarchy @ Oct 17 2005, 09:47 PM)
Illegally? How so? Are juries the second branch of the legislature, now?
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They are a check against a government that seeks to lock up,say, political enemies, yes.
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