QUOTE(davis¹³ @ Nov 3 2005, 01:01 PM)
I have absolutely no idea what you just said. How about using a language we can understand?
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Another davey classic.
Full Version: Ethics/Values in politics
Pages: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86, 87, 88, 89, 90, 91, 92, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99, 100, 101, 102, 103, 104, 105, 106, 107, 108, 109, 110, 111, 112, 113, 114, 115, 116, 117, 118, 119, 120, 121, 122, 123, 124, 125, 126, 127, 128, 129, 130, 131, 132, 133, 134, 135, 136, 137, 138, 139, 140, 141, 142, 143, 144, 145, 146, 147, 148, 149, 150, 151, 152, 153, 154, 155, 156, 157, 158, 159, 160, 161, 162, 163, 164, 165, 166, 167, 168, 169, 170, 171, 172, 173, 174, 175, 176, 177, 178, 179, 180, 181, 182, 183, 184, 185, 186, 187, 188, 189, 190
Another davey classic.
QUOTE(Repub_Bub @ Nov 3 2005, 07:53 AM)
Another davey classic.[right][snapback]146043[/snapback][/right]
The riddles get old fast.
QUOTE(davis¹³ @ Nov 3 2005, 01:58 PM)
The riddles get old fast.
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Mebbe he dont speak rant.
QUOTE(davis¹³ @ Nov 3 2005, 05:01 AM)
I have absolutely no idea what you just said. How about using a language we can understand?
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Yeah that happens when someone goes out of their way to be purposefully...boring.
I was thinking of starting a poll to figure out what that poster does for a living. I would vote "crossword puzzle maker".
Well, well.... lookie here. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
Second Judge Out for DeLay Trial
AUSTIN, Texas (AP) - Two days after U.S. Rep. Tom DeLay won a fight to get a new judge in his case, prosecutors on Thursday succeeded in ousting the Republican jurist responsible for selecting the new judge.
Administrative Judge B.B. Schraub recused himself after District Attorney Ronnie Earle filed a motion asking for his removal from the case.
Schraub said he will ask the chief justice of the Texas Supreme Court name a judge to preside over DeLay's conspiracy and money laundering trial.
State district Judge Bob Perkins, a Democrat, was removed from DeLay's case Tuesday after DeLay's legal team cast doubt on Perkins' ability to judge the case fairly because of more than $5,000 in contributions he's made to Democrats.
Earle said in his motion filed Thursday that Schraub has made more than $5,000 in contributions to Republican candidates, including to Gov. Rick Perry, a DeLay ally, which calls into question Schraub's impartiality in the case.
Prosecutors had asked for Schraub to recuse himself or appoint another judge to take his place. The motion said that Schraub could ask Perry to appoint the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals to assign a judge to conduct a hearing on the motion.
DeLay, 58, and two associates have been accused of funneling corporate donations from a DeLay-founded political committee in Texas to the Republican National Committee, which sent the money back to GOP legislative candidates in Texas. Texas law forbids the direct use of corporate money for campaigning.
The alleged scheme was part of a plan DeLay helped set in motion in 2001 to help Republicans win control of the Texas House in the 2002 elections. The Republican Legislature then adopted a new congressional voting district map that DeLay crafted to put more Republicans in Congress in 2004.
In coordination with DeLay, Perry called lawmakers back for three special sessions to tackle the contentious redistricting map, despite vehement opposition from Democrats, who staged two out-of-state walkouts to halt progress.
In the end, it was DeLay who brokered a redistricting agreement, visiting the state Capitol and shuttling back and forth between the House, Senate and Perry's office.
"Governor Perry was a major figure in the redistricting effort that the (DeLay) successfully argued," Earle said in his motion. "Because Judge Schraub has donated to Governor Perry, he has disclosed through this free speech that he agrees in principle with Perry's agenda regarding Tom DeLay's redistricting map."
Prosecutors also suggest an appearance of Schraub's political indebtedness to Perry, who appointed him as administrative judge and has authority to reappoint him again in January.
Still, Earle wrote that prosecutors believe Schraub to be "completely fair and impartial, with a sterling reputation of honesty and integrity.
"However, as the recusal of Judge Perkins reflected, such is unfortunately no longer the standard in our state for the judiciary," he said.
Schraub, 76, also has contributed money to the Republican campaigns of George W. Bush for Texas governor and president. He has more than 40 years of judicial experience, including the last 15 as administrative judge. He also spent 20 years as state district judge for the region.
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20051103/D8DL5JL80.html
Second Judge Out for DeLay Trial
AUSTIN, Texas (AP) - Two days after U.S. Rep. Tom DeLay won a fight to get a new judge in his case, prosecutors on Thursday succeeded in ousting the Republican jurist responsible for selecting the new judge.
Administrative Judge B.B. Schraub recused himself after District Attorney Ronnie Earle filed a motion asking for his removal from the case.
Schraub said he will ask the chief justice of the Texas Supreme Court name a judge to preside over DeLay's conspiracy and money laundering trial.
State district Judge Bob Perkins, a Democrat, was removed from DeLay's case Tuesday after DeLay's legal team cast doubt on Perkins' ability to judge the case fairly because of more than $5,000 in contributions he's made to Democrats.
Earle said in his motion filed Thursday that Schraub has made more than $5,000 in contributions to Republican candidates, including to Gov. Rick Perry, a DeLay ally, which calls into question Schraub's impartiality in the case.
Prosecutors had asked for Schraub to recuse himself or appoint another judge to take his place. The motion said that Schraub could ask Perry to appoint the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals to assign a judge to conduct a hearing on the motion.
DeLay, 58, and two associates have been accused of funneling corporate donations from a DeLay-founded political committee in Texas to the Republican National Committee, which sent the money back to GOP legislative candidates in Texas. Texas law forbids the direct use of corporate money for campaigning.
The alleged scheme was part of a plan DeLay helped set in motion in 2001 to help Republicans win control of the Texas House in the 2002 elections. The Republican Legislature then adopted a new congressional voting district map that DeLay crafted to put more Republicans in Congress in 2004.
In coordination with DeLay, Perry called lawmakers back for three special sessions to tackle the contentious redistricting map, despite vehement opposition from Democrats, who staged two out-of-state walkouts to halt progress.
In the end, it was DeLay who brokered a redistricting agreement, visiting the state Capitol and shuttling back and forth between the House, Senate and Perry's office.
"Governor Perry was a major figure in the redistricting effort that the (DeLay) successfully argued," Earle said in his motion. "Because Judge Schraub has donated to Governor Perry, he has disclosed through this free speech that he agrees in principle with Perry's agenda regarding Tom DeLay's redistricting map."
Prosecutors also suggest an appearance of Schraub's political indebtedness to Perry, who appointed him as administrative judge and has authority to reappoint him again in January.
Still, Earle wrote that prosecutors believe Schraub to be "completely fair and impartial, with a sterling reputation of honesty and integrity.
"However, as the recusal of Judge Perkins reflected, such is unfortunately no longer the standard in our state for the judiciary," he said.
Schraub, 76, also has contributed money to the Republican campaigns of George W. Bush for Texas governor and president. He has more than 40 years of judicial experience, including the last 15 as administrative judge. He also spent 20 years as state district judge for the region.
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20051103/D8DL5JL80.html
Toldja.
Can Of Worms.
Bring it on.
Can Of Worms.
Bring it on.
QUOTE(davis¹³ @ Nov 3 2005, 07:28 PM)
Well, well.... lookie here. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
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True. There must be some non-political judges that just want a fair trial.
I'm not sure the lefties really want a fair trial.
as fair as Saddam's son's got
one like Jose Padilla's
QUOTE(inyerface @ Nov 3 2005, 08:04 PM)
as fair as Saddam's son's got
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Finally coming out as a Saddam sympathizer? You think any of Uday and Qusay's victims got fair trials?
and Paddila?
any charges?
due proccess?
equal protection?
bush sucks ass in hell for 25 cents an hour
any charges?
due proccess?
equal protection?
bush sucks ass in hell for 25 cents an hour
QUOTE
DeLay Asked Lobbyist to Raise Money Through Charity
By PHILIP SHENON
Published: November 4, 2005
WASHINGTON, Nov. 3 - Representative Tom DeLay asked the lobbyist Jack Abramoff to raise money for him through a private charity controlled by Mr. Abramoff, an unusual request that led the lobbyist to try to gather at least $150,000 from his Indian tribe clients and their gambling operations, according to newly disclosed e-mail from the lobbyist's files.
The electronic messages from 2002, which refer to "Tom" and "Tom's requests," appear to be the clearest evidence to date of an effort by Mr. DeLay, a Texas Republican, to pressure Mr. Abramoff and his lobbying partners to raise money for him. The e-mail messages do not specify why Mr. DeLay wanted the money, how it was to be used or why he would want money raised through the auspices of a private charity.
"Did you get the message from the guys that Tom wants us to raise some bucks from Capital Athletic Foundation?" Mr. Abramoff asked a colleague in a message on June 6, 2002, referring to the charity. "I have six clients in for $25K. I recommend we hit everyone who cares about Tom's requests. I have another few to hit still."
The e-mail was addressed to Tony Rudy, who had been Mr. DeLay's chief of staff in the House before joining Mr. Abramoff's lobbying firm. Mr. Abramoff said it would be good "if we can do $200K" for Mr. DeLay.
The e-mail traffic was released this week by the Senate Indian Affairs Committee, which has conducted a yearlong investigation into whether Mr. Abramoff and a business partner, Michael Scanlon, Mr. DeLay's former House press secretary, defrauded Indian tribe clients and their gambling operations out of tens of millions of dollars. There was no immediate comment on the e-mail from spokesmen for Mr. Abramoff or Mr. DeLay, who has stepped down as House majority leader because of an unrelated criminal indictment in his home state.
The Justice Department signaled last month that it was investigating the propriety of Mr. DeLay's ties to Mr. Abramoff, including trips that the lobbyist organized for Mr. DeLay and his wife. Mr. Abramoff is under indictment in a separate federal fraud investigation in Florida.
The case against Mr. DeLay in Texas, which centers on charges that he violated the state's century-old ban on use of corporate money in its political races, has been thrown into confusion this week because of accusations - first by Mr. DeLay's defense lawyers, then by prosecutors - that judges assigned to the case cannot be impartial because of their political ties, a concern in Texas because judges there are elected.
On Tuesday, Mr. DeLay's lawyers managed to have the trial judge, Bob Perkins, a Democrat, removed because he had made contributions to the Democratic Party and its candidates. On Thursday, the Republican administrative judge who was supposed to pick Judge Perkins's replacement, B. B. Schraub, removed himself from the case because of contributions he had made to Republican candidates.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/04/politics/04lobby.html
By PHILIP SHENON
Published: November 4, 2005
WASHINGTON, Nov. 3 - Representative Tom DeLay asked the lobbyist Jack Abramoff to raise money for him through a private charity controlled by Mr. Abramoff, an unusual request that led the lobbyist to try to gather at least $150,000 from his Indian tribe clients and their gambling operations, according to newly disclosed e-mail from the lobbyist's files.
The electronic messages from 2002, which refer to "Tom" and "Tom's requests," appear to be the clearest evidence to date of an effort by Mr. DeLay, a Texas Republican, to pressure Mr. Abramoff and his lobbying partners to raise money for him. The e-mail messages do not specify why Mr. DeLay wanted the money, how it was to be used or why he would want money raised through the auspices of a private charity.
"Did you get the message from the guys that Tom wants us to raise some bucks from Capital Athletic Foundation?" Mr. Abramoff asked a colleague in a message on June 6, 2002, referring to the charity. "I have six clients in for $25K. I recommend we hit everyone who cares about Tom's requests. I have another few to hit still."
The e-mail was addressed to Tony Rudy, who had been Mr. DeLay's chief of staff in the House before joining Mr. Abramoff's lobbying firm. Mr. Abramoff said it would be good "if we can do $200K" for Mr. DeLay.
The e-mail traffic was released this week by the Senate Indian Affairs Committee, which has conducted a yearlong investigation into whether Mr. Abramoff and a business partner, Michael Scanlon, Mr. DeLay's former House press secretary, defrauded Indian tribe clients and their gambling operations out of tens of millions of dollars. There was no immediate comment on the e-mail from spokesmen for Mr. Abramoff or Mr. DeLay, who has stepped down as House majority leader because of an unrelated criminal indictment in his home state.
The Justice Department signaled last month that it was investigating the propriety of Mr. DeLay's ties to Mr. Abramoff, including trips that the lobbyist organized for Mr. DeLay and his wife. Mr. Abramoff is under indictment in a separate federal fraud investigation in Florida.
The case against Mr. DeLay in Texas, which centers on charges that he violated the state's century-old ban on use of corporate money in its political races, has been thrown into confusion this week because of accusations - first by Mr. DeLay's defense lawyers, then by prosecutors - that judges assigned to the case cannot be impartial because of their political ties, a concern in Texas because judges there are elected.
On Tuesday, Mr. DeLay's lawyers managed to have the trial judge, Bob Perkins, a Democrat, removed because he had made contributions to the Democratic Party and its candidates. On Thursday, the Republican administrative judge who was supposed to pick Judge Perkins's replacement, B. B. Schraub, removed himself from the case because of contributions he had made to Republican candidates.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/04/politics/04lobby.html
I want a fair trial AND a fair sentence.
Like send DeLouse out to GITMO.
Hilarious. I knew it.
QUOTE
In rapid motions, judge picked for DeLay case
GOP justice ignores questions about his ties to DeLay committee to make appointment.
Two days after Rep. Tom DeLay, third from right, won a fight to get a new judge in his case, prosecutors Thursday succeeded in getting the Republican jurist responsible for selecting the new judge to withdraw.
By Laylan Copelin
AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF
Friday, November 04, 2005
The judicial carousel in U.S. Rep. Tom DeLay's conspiracy case almost spun out of control Thursday as the search for a judge beyond the hint of any political taint reached the chief justice of the Texas Supreme Court.
Chief Justice Wallace Jefferson, a Republican, named Pat Priest, a retired Democratic judge from his hometown of San Antonio, to hear the case — but not before Jefferson's own multiple ties to DeLay's political operation were questioned.
Jefferson waved off questions about those ties Thursday afternoon as he searched for a judge to hear the biggest political trial in Texas for this generation. He tapped Priest just minutes before prosecutors filed a motion questioning the perception that Jefferson has too many ties to DeLay's committee and co-defendants to be impartial.
Jefferson shared the same campaign treasurer and a consultant as DeLay's Texans for a Republican Majority. One of his largest campaign donations — $25,000 — was from the arm of the Republican National Committee that is at the center of the allegation that DeLay and his co-defendants laundered corporate money into political donations in 2002.
The justice also traveled in 2002 on a campaign swing with one DeLay co-defendant, John Colyandro, on a plane provided by a law partner of a lawyer representing another DeLay co-defendant, Jim Ellis. He also attended a Houston fundraiser with the chairman of the Republican National Committee at the house of a board member of Texans for a Republican Majority.
Finally, DeLay's political action committee endorsed Jefferson.
"So what?" said DeLay's lawyer Dick DeGuerin. "Is (Travis County District Attorney) Ronnie Earle saying he (Jefferson) appointed the wrong judge? It's a done deal. It's over."
Earle, who is prosecuting DeLay, did not comment Thursday night beyond his written legal motions. But the prosecutor's only recourse might be to challenge Priest if there is a reason to question his impartiality.
A search of state and federal databases late Thursday showed Priest gave $150 each to three Democratic state representatives from San Antonio in 2004.
http://www.statesman.com/metrostate/conten.../11/4delay.html
GOP justice ignores questions about his ties to DeLay committee to make appointment.
Two days after Rep. Tom DeLay, third from right, won a fight to get a new judge in his case, prosecutors Thursday succeeded in getting the Republican jurist responsible for selecting the new judge to withdraw.
By Laylan Copelin
AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF
Friday, November 04, 2005
The judicial carousel in U.S. Rep. Tom DeLay's conspiracy case almost spun out of control Thursday as the search for a judge beyond the hint of any political taint reached the chief justice of the Texas Supreme Court.
Chief Justice Wallace Jefferson, a Republican, named Pat Priest, a retired Democratic judge from his hometown of San Antonio, to hear the case — but not before Jefferson's own multiple ties to DeLay's political operation were questioned.
Jefferson waved off questions about those ties Thursday afternoon as he searched for a judge to hear the biggest political trial in Texas for this generation. He tapped Priest just minutes before prosecutors filed a motion questioning the perception that Jefferson has too many ties to DeLay's committee and co-defendants to be impartial.
Jefferson shared the same campaign treasurer and a consultant as DeLay's Texans for a Republican Majority. One of his largest campaign donations — $25,000 — was from the arm of the Republican National Committee that is at the center of the allegation that DeLay and his co-defendants laundered corporate money into political donations in 2002.
The justice also traveled in 2002 on a campaign swing with one DeLay co-defendant, John Colyandro, on a plane provided by a law partner of a lawyer representing another DeLay co-defendant, Jim Ellis. He also attended a Houston fundraiser with the chairman of the Republican National Committee at the house of a board member of Texans for a Republican Majority.
Finally, DeLay's political action committee endorsed Jefferson.
"So what?" said DeLay's lawyer Dick DeGuerin. "Is (Travis County District Attorney) Ronnie Earle saying he (Jefferson) appointed the wrong judge? It's a done deal. It's over."
Earle, who is prosecuting DeLay, did not comment Thursday night beyond his written legal motions. But the prosecutor's only recourse might be to challenge Priest if there is a reason to question his impartiality.
A search of state and federal databases late Thursday showed Priest gave $150 each to three Democratic state representatives from San Antonio in 2004.
http://www.statesman.com/metrostate/conten.../11/4delay.html
QUOTE
"So what?" said DeLay's lawyer Dick DeGuerin
QUOTE(davis¹³ @ Nov 3 2005, 09:24 AM)
We stand for torture. Thanks GW.
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A liberal judge and a liberal attorney said that it was a "beautiful experience" to starve and dehydrate Terri Schaivo. When Republicans tried to intervene, you got hysterical. Why the double standard? Why is it OK to slowly kill an innocent young woman and not OK for terrorists who target women and children to stop eating? Why isn't it a 'beautiful experience' for the barbarians who themselves chose to go on a hunger strike?
Why do you have this obsession with these dreges of society, these bottom feeders, these unconscionable terrorists? Your adulation of these anarchists makes you a suspect covert al quaida operative.
Hats off to GW who is doing everything in his power to keep American and Americans safe. If the terrorists are 'tortured' by putting women's panties on their heads, then so be it. If they can obtain information that saves one American life, then so be it. If they can obtain information that saves one platoon, then so be it. This is war buddy! You appear to be on the wrong side of every issue. Move to France if that's where your heart is. But quit aiding and abetting the enemy from here.
GOD BLESS AMERICA!
QUOTE(judy @ Nov 4 2005, 07:09 AM)
A liberal judge and a liberal attorney said that it was a "beautiful experience" to starve and dehydrate Terri Schaivo. When Republicans tried to intervene, you got hysterical. Why the double standard? Why is it OK to slowly kill an innocent young woman and not OK for terrorists who target women and children to stop eating? Why isn't it a 'beautiful experience' for the barbarians who themselves chose to go on a hunger strike?
Why do you have this obsession with these dreges of society, these bottom feeders, these unconscionable terrorists? Your adulation of these anarchists makes you a suspect covert al quaida operative.
Hats off to GW who is doing everything in his power to keep American and Americans safe. If the terrorists are 'tortured' by putting women's panties on their heads, then so be it. If they can obtain information that saves one American life, then so be it. If they can obtain information that saves one platoon, then so be it. This is war buddy! You appear to be on the wrong side of every issue. Move to France if that's where your heart is. But quit aiding and abetting the enemy from here.
GOD BLESS AMERICA!
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Why do you have this obsession with these dreges of society, these bottom feeders, these unconscionable terrorists? Your adulation of these anarchists makes you a suspect covert al quaida operative.
Hats off to GW who is doing everything in his power to keep American and Americans safe. If the terrorists are 'tortured' by putting women's panties on their heads, then so be it. If they can obtain information that saves one American life, then so be it. If they can obtain information that saves one platoon, then so be it. This is war buddy! You appear to be on the wrong side of every issue. Move to France if that's where your heart is. But quit aiding and abetting the enemy from here.
GOD BLESS AMERICA!
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Brainless idiot. Wait a minute. You weren't around during the Shaivo shit were you?
I wish I could see this fuckhead's IP address, I'd bet she's a pseud.
This country's founding principles outlaw torture and annonymous imprisonment.
Shame on you. God Bless America? Not if we forget our founding principles of human rights.
He likely won't bless THAT.
Shame on you. God Bless America? Not if we forget our founding principles of human rights.
He likely won't bless THAT.
QUOTE(Bee @ Nov 4 2005, 12:02 PM)
I want a fair trial AND a fair sentence.
Like send DeLouse out to GITMO.
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Like send DeLouse out to GITMO.
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If only we could turn back the clock to the happy days of uday and qusay.
QUOTE(davis¹³ @ Nov 4 2005, 08:16 AM)
I wish I could see this fuckhead's IP address, I'd bet she's a pseud.
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No doubt.
A letter from my local paper:
Bush attempts to stifle public dissent un-American
Friday, November 4, 2005
This country was founded on principles that guarded the people's right to disagree with the government and to be able to freely criticize those in power. What has occurred in the last few years since the George W. Bush administration has taken over this country is interesting and, in some respects, scary.
This administration makes it appear that anyone who disagrees with them is not patriotic and does not support our country. Nothing could be further from the truth. Eventually, when the numbers are large enough, the people will demand the right to be heard and the people's criticisms of Bush administration policies, including the war in Iraq, will be heard loud and clear.
This authoritarian approach to governing has caught on to the point where those who question police action are subject to arrest and prosecution. This has now been carried into the private sector.
Under the guise of fighting terrorism, we are allowing the government to intrude into our personal lives with expanded wiretapping and surveillance of our day-to-day activities.
I trust the people of this country to make the right decisions concerning the way that they should be governed, and I urge those of you who disagree with this approach to stand up for the rights that they have been given. These are our rights and we don't need to be embarrassed to claim them. This is a government by the people and for the people, not for the benefit of those who govern.
****** ******
Havana
Bush attempts to stifle public dissent un-American
Friday, November 4, 2005
This country was founded on principles that guarded the people's right to disagree with the government and to be able to freely criticize those in power. What has occurred in the last few years since the George W. Bush administration has taken over this country is interesting and, in some respects, scary.
This administration makes it appear that anyone who disagrees with them is not patriotic and does not support our country. Nothing could be further from the truth. Eventually, when the numbers are large enough, the people will demand the right to be heard and the people's criticisms of Bush administration policies, including the war in Iraq, will be heard loud and clear.
This authoritarian approach to governing has caught on to the point where those who question police action are subject to arrest and prosecution. This has now been carried into the private sector.
Under the guise of fighting terrorism, we are allowing the government to intrude into our personal lives with expanded wiretapping and surveillance of our day-to-day activities.
I trust the people of this country to make the right decisions concerning the way that they should be governed, and I urge those of you who disagree with this approach to stand up for the rights that they have been given. These are our rights and we don't need to be embarrassed to claim them. This is a government by the people and for the people, not for the benefit of those who govern.
****** ******
Havana
QUOTE(davis¹³ @ Nov 4 2005, 01:28 PM)
This authoritarian approach to governing has caught on to the point where those who question police action are subject to arrest and prosecution. This has now been carried into the private sector.
The authorities must be especially active in your area, davey. Can't remember the last time you were allowed free expression.
QUOTE(Repub_Bub @ Nov 4 2005, 08:17 AM)
If only we could turn back the clock to the happy days of uday and qusay.
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So.....
You are saying that "it's OK" for us to torture others because lowlife scum like Saddams sons did it?
Quite the low bar you have. Thank goodness I live in America where the bar was set much much higher over 200 years ago.
QUOTE(Repub_Bub @ Nov 4 2005, 07:37 AM)
The authorities must be especially active in your area, davey. Can't remember the last time you were allowed free expression.
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Fuck you flat top.
QUOTE(Bee @ Nov 4 2005, 01:40 PM)
So.....
You are saying that "it's OK" for us to torture others because lowlife scum like Saddams sons did it?
Quite the low bar you have. Thank goodness I live in America where the bar was set much much higher over 200 years ago.
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You are saying that "it's OK" for us to torture others because lowlife scum like Saddams sons did it?
Quite the low bar you have. Thank goodness I live in America where the bar was set much much higher over 200 years ago.
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Not at all....I'm simply agreeing with inyerface about the lost opportunity for the sons of saddam to have had a fair trial.
Playing god? That would Holy king George and his worldshakers.
You rightwing freaks have ruined our country. I wonder if we will ever recover?
Nov. 4, 2005, 4:52AM
Politics quash potential DeLay judges
Two exit, third challenged before Democrat named to take the reins
AUSTIN - The perception of bias became a harsh reality for the Texas judiciary Thursday in the criminal case of U.S. Rep. Tom DeLay as a judicial near meltdown occurred before a senior San Antonio district judge was selected to preside at DeLay's trial.
A wild day of judicial merry-go-round came two days after a Democratic visiting judge removed District Judge Bob Perkins of Austin from hearing the case because of political donations to Democratic groups that might make Perkins appear biased against DeLay, R-Sugar Land.
Before the day was done, another judge had removed himself from the case at the request of prosecutors; questions had been raised about Texas Supreme Court Chief Justice Wallace Jefferson's ties to DeLay; and Senior Judge Pat Priest, a Democrat, was appointed to preside over the case.
"I don't know how this case landed on me," said Priest, 64, of San Antonio. "I hope it's because someone told them I'd be fair."
Priest said he has no idea how long he might last as presiding judge.
"You'll have to ask the lawyers in the case to see if they find me objectionable," he said.
DeLay's lawyer, Dick DeGuerin of Houston, said his first motion before Priest will be to ask him to move the trial from Travis County to DeLay's home of Fort Bend County.
Image problems
Adam Gershowitz, a professor of criminal law at Houston's South Texas College of Law, said the judicial "tit-for-tat" could leave the appearance that the trial was unfair for either DeLay or the prosecution.
"When will you ever find a judge who can hear the case who isn't a Democrat or a Republican?" asked Gershowitz. "You might have to leave the state at this point."
DeLay and two associates, John Colyandro and Jim Ellis, face charges of conspiracy to violate election laws, money laundering and conspiracy to commit money laundering in connection with how the DeLay-founded Texans for a Republican Majority, TRMPAC, spent corporate money in the 2002 Texas House elections.
Perkins was removed from the case Tuesday and his replacement was to be named by regional administrative Judge B.B. Schraub, a Republican.
But Travis County District Attorney Ronnie Earle at 9:41 a.m. Thursday challenged Schraub because he had made donations to Gov. Rick Perry and was subject to reappointment by Perry in January.
Earle argued this created an appearance of bias because Perry called the special legislative sessions in 2003 that DeLay used to push through a congressional redistricting plan.
Schraub removed himself from the case at 12:26 p.m. and gave the chore of picking a new judge to Jefferson — who had more than one conflict involving the case:
•Jefferson was endorsed by TRMPAC in 2002. The news release contact was Colyandro.
•He traveled on a TRMPAC campaign tour on an airplane provided by the partner of J.D. Pauerstein, the lawyer defending Ellis.
•His campaign treasurer and TRMPAC's treasurer were both Bill Ceverha of Dallas.
•Jefferson in October 2002 introduced Republican National Committee Chairman Marc Racicot at a TRMPAC fundraiser in Houston at the same time an allegedly illegal money swap was occurring between TRMPAC and the RNC. TRMPAC and RNC officials have denied any money exchange.
•Jefferson in 2002 received a $2,000 donation from DeLay's Americans for a Republican Majority.
Jefferson declined to comment to the Houston Chronicle on Thursday afternoon.
DeGuerin said the conflicts did not matter because Jefferson's role in picking a new judge was administrative, not judicial.
"What you've got to do is look at the judge he (Jefferson) appoints," DeGuerin said.
The Supreme Court at 4:43 p.m. released a copy of Jefferson's order appointing Priest to preside over DeLay's case.
At 5 p.m., Earle filed a motion asking Jefferson to recuse himself from the case because of the conflicts and allow the next available Travis County district judge to take over.
"The recusal of Judge Bob Perkins in this case was unprecedented and has caused a public perception that the defendant in this case is getting special treatment," Earle said. "For this matter to be assigned to any judge outside of Travis County would only intensify this perception of favoritism and special treatment."
DeGuerin, when told of Earle's motion, said, "Too late, Ronnie."
Earle did not comment.
Retired judge still active
DeGuerin said he did not think DeLay would find objectionable three $150 donations Priest had made to San Antonio Democratic state representatives last year. All three lawmakers were involved in a House walkout in 2003 that temporarily blocked DeLay's redistricting efforts.
Priest said he gave the money to the lawmakers because of an unusual situation in which judges who retired before him and after him received more pay. He said the lawmakers were "kind enough" to carry a bill to make his retirement pay the same as other judges.
Though officially retired, Priest remains active as a judge and said he is a Democrat.
Last month in Dallas, Priest took over for a judge who was removed in a criminal case because prosecutors claimed he was favoring the defendant.
In 2000, he presided over the corruption trials of county officials in Karnes and Atascosa county accused of stealing from their governments. He sentenced both to prison.
Priest's most high-profile case was in 1990 when he ordered a San Antonio TV reporter jailed for six months for refusing to comply with his order to turn over notes in a capital murder case.
Priest was elected as a district judge in 1980 and remained on the bench until he ran for the 4th Court of Appeals in 1994. He lost the Democratic primary to an opponent who accused him of being "soft on crime" for reducing the $1 million bail set for two murder defendants by another judge.
Since then, he has served as a senior judge, handling cases that are assigned to him by an administrative judge.
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/front/3437954
You know if DeLay loses he'll challenge it on the grounds this judge is biased.
Politics quash potential DeLay judges
Two exit, third challenged before Democrat named to take the reins
AUSTIN - The perception of bias became a harsh reality for the Texas judiciary Thursday in the criminal case of U.S. Rep. Tom DeLay as a judicial near meltdown occurred before a senior San Antonio district judge was selected to preside at DeLay's trial.
A wild day of judicial merry-go-round came two days after a Democratic visiting judge removed District Judge Bob Perkins of Austin from hearing the case because of political donations to Democratic groups that might make Perkins appear biased against DeLay, R-Sugar Land.
Before the day was done, another judge had removed himself from the case at the request of prosecutors; questions had been raised about Texas Supreme Court Chief Justice Wallace Jefferson's ties to DeLay; and Senior Judge Pat Priest, a Democrat, was appointed to preside over the case.
"I don't know how this case landed on me," said Priest, 64, of San Antonio. "I hope it's because someone told them I'd be fair."
Priest said he has no idea how long he might last as presiding judge.
"You'll have to ask the lawyers in the case to see if they find me objectionable," he said.
DeLay's lawyer, Dick DeGuerin of Houston, said his first motion before Priest will be to ask him to move the trial from Travis County to DeLay's home of Fort Bend County.
Image problems
Adam Gershowitz, a professor of criminal law at Houston's South Texas College of Law, said the judicial "tit-for-tat" could leave the appearance that the trial was unfair for either DeLay or the prosecution.
"When will you ever find a judge who can hear the case who isn't a Democrat or a Republican?" asked Gershowitz. "You might have to leave the state at this point."
DeLay and two associates, John Colyandro and Jim Ellis, face charges of conspiracy to violate election laws, money laundering and conspiracy to commit money laundering in connection with how the DeLay-founded Texans for a Republican Majority, TRMPAC, spent corporate money in the 2002 Texas House elections.
Perkins was removed from the case Tuesday and his replacement was to be named by regional administrative Judge B.B. Schraub, a Republican.
But Travis County District Attorney Ronnie Earle at 9:41 a.m. Thursday challenged Schraub because he had made donations to Gov. Rick Perry and was subject to reappointment by Perry in January.
Earle argued this created an appearance of bias because Perry called the special legislative sessions in 2003 that DeLay used to push through a congressional redistricting plan.
Schraub removed himself from the case at 12:26 p.m. and gave the chore of picking a new judge to Jefferson — who had more than one conflict involving the case:
•Jefferson was endorsed by TRMPAC in 2002. The news release contact was Colyandro.
•He traveled on a TRMPAC campaign tour on an airplane provided by the partner of J.D. Pauerstein, the lawyer defending Ellis.
•His campaign treasurer and TRMPAC's treasurer were both Bill Ceverha of Dallas.
•Jefferson in October 2002 introduced Republican National Committee Chairman Marc Racicot at a TRMPAC fundraiser in Houston at the same time an allegedly illegal money swap was occurring between TRMPAC and the RNC. TRMPAC and RNC officials have denied any money exchange.
•Jefferson in 2002 received a $2,000 donation from DeLay's Americans for a Republican Majority.
Jefferson declined to comment to the Houston Chronicle on Thursday afternoon.
DeGuerin said the conflicts did not matter because Jefferson's role in picking a new judge was administrative, not judicial.
"What you've got to do is look at the judge he (Jefferson) appoints," DeGuerin said.
The Supreme Court at 4:43 p.m. released a copy of Jefferson's order appointing Priest to preside over DeLay's case.
At 5 p.m., Earle filed a motion asking Jefferson to recuse himself from the case because of the conflicts and allow the next available Travis County district judge to take over.
"The recusal of Judge Bob Perkins in this case was unprecedented and has caused a public perception that the defendant in this case is getting special treatment," Earle said. "For this matter to be assigned to any judge outside of Travis County would only intensify this perception of favoritism and special treatment."
DeGuerin, when told of Earle's motion, said, "Too late, Ronnie."
Earle did not comment.
Retired judge still active
DeGuerin said he did not think DeLay would find objectionable three $150 donations Priest had made to San Antonio Democratic state representatives last year. All three lawmakers were involved in a House walkout in 2003 that temporarily blocked DeLay's redistricting efforts.
Priest said he gave the money to the lawmakers because of an unusual situation in which judges who retired before him and after him received more pay. He said the lawmakers were "kind enough" to carry a bill to make his retirement pay the same as other judges.
Though officially retired, Priest remains active as a judge and said he is a Democrat.
Last month in Dallas, Priest took over for a judge who was removed in a criminal case because prosecutors claimed he was favoring the defendant.
In 2000, he presided over the corruption trials of county officials in Karnes and Atascosa county accused of stealing from their governments. He sentenced both to prison.
Priest's most high-profile case was in 1990 when he ordered a San Antonio TV reporter jailed for six months for refusing to comply with his order to turn over notes in a capital murder case.
Priest was elected as a district judge in 1980 and remained on the bench until he ran for the 4th Court of Appeals in 1994. He lost the Democratic primary to an opponent who accused him of being "soft on crime" for reducing the $1 million bail set for two murder defendants by another judge.
Since then, he has served as a senior judge, handling cases that are assigned to him by an administrative judge.
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/front/3437954
You know if DeLay loses he'll challenge it on the grounds this judge is biased.
QUOTE(Repub_Bub @ Nov 4 2005, 06:17 AM)
If only we could turn back the clock to the happy days of uday and qusay.
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Inyerface's buddies. Poor guys didn't get a trial because they decided to try and kill as many Americans as they could on the way out.
Michael Moore owns Halliburton stock and Soros hides his money in Fiji.
Good thing lefties don't lay claim to any ethics or values so they can't be called hypocrites.
Good thing lefties don't lay claim to any ethics or values so they can't be called hypocrites.
http://www.mooreexposed.com/
Should a 400 lb man advise us on the evils of over-consumption?
Should the resident of a million-dollar apartment claim to be a poster boy of the working class?
Should a person who thought that Enron was a great investment, that Ralph Nader, Wesley Clark and John Kerry would win, and that North Korea's Kim Jong was changing for the better, advise us on ANYTHING?
Michael Moore is a paradox. A millionaire who boasts of wealth as proving his value -- "I'm a millionaire, I'm a multi-millionaire. I'm filthy rich. You know why I'm a multi-millionaire? 'Cause multi-millions like what I do. That's pretty good, isn't it?"
He lives in a million-dollar apartment, and boasts of that as well. "I walk among them. I live on the island of Manhattan, a three-mile-wide strip of land that is luxury home and corporate suite to America's elite..... Those who run your life live in my neighborhood. I walk in the streets with them each day" (Michael Moore, Stupid White Men, p. 51). For vacations, he keeps another million-dollar beachfront house in Michigan.
"You would think that he's the ultimate common man. But he's money-obsessed," said one associate.
He sends his child to a private school -- no sense associating with the working class -- and has some trouble associating with them himself. The New York Post reported on a tantrum he threw in London: "Then, on his second-to-last night, [Michael Moore] raged against everyone connected with the Roundhouse and complained that he was being paid a measly $750 a night. 'He completely lost the plot,' a member of the stage crew told the London Evening Standard. 'He stormed around all day screaming at everyone, even the 5 pound-an-hour bar staff, telling them how we were all con men and useless. Then he went on stage and did it in public.' At his last appearance, staffers refused to work or even open the theater's doors." NY Post, Jan. 8, 2003.
He supplements his meager income with speaking tours. No more $750 gigs; on his 2004 pre-election tour he charged Utah Valley State College $40,000, Xavier $25,000, and University of New Mexico $35,000. Not bad for an hour or two's work.
Ah, the joys of capitalism....
One of his former associates summed him up: " You would think that he's the ultimate common man. But he's money-obsessed."
Should a 400 lb man advise us on the evils of over-consumption?
Should the resident of a million-dollar apartment claim to be a poster boy of the working class?
Should a person who thought that Enron was a great investment, that Ralph Nader, Wesley Clark and John Kerry would win, and that North Korea's Kim Jong was changing for the better, advise us on ANYTHING?
Michael Moore is a paradox. A millionaire who boasts of wealth as proving his value -- "I'm a millionaire, I'm a multi-millionaire. I'm filthy rich. You know why I'm a multi-millionaire? 'Cause multi-millions like what I do. That's pretty good, isn't it?"
He lives in a million-dollar apartment, and boasts of that as well. "I walk among them. I live on the island of Manhattan, a three-mile-wide strip of land that is luxury home and corporate suite to America's elite..... Those who run your life live in my neighborhood. I walk in the streets with them each day" (Michael Moore, Stupid White Men, p. 51). For vacations, he keeps another million-dollar beachfront house in Michigan.
"You would think that he's the ultimate common man. But he's money-obsessed," said one associate.
He sends his child to a private school -- no sense associating with the working class -- and has some trouble associating with them himself. The New York Post reported on a tantrum he threw in London: "Then, on his second-to-last night, [Michael Moore] raged against everyone connected with the Roundhouse and complained that he was being paid a measly $750 a night. 'He completely lost the plot,' a member of the stage crew told the London Evening Standard. 'He stormed around all day screaming at everyone, even the 5 pound-an-hour bar staff, telling them how we were all con men and useless. Then he went on stage and did it in public.' At his last appearance, staffers refused to work or even open the theater's doors." NY Post, Jan. 8, 2003.
He supplements his meager income with speaking tours. No more $750 gigs; on his 2004 pre-election tour he charged Utah Valley State College $40,000, Xavier $25,000, and University of New Mexico $35,000. Not bad for an hour or two's work.
Ah, the joys of capitalism....
One of his former associates summed him up: " You would think that he's the ultimate common man. But he's money-obsessed."
Moore is an idiot.
QUOTE(Arturo_Vandelay @ Nov 4 2005, 03:22 PM)
Michael Moore owns Halliburton stock and Soros hides his money in Fiji.
Good thing lefties don't lay claim to any ethics or values so they can't be called hypocrites.
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Good thing lefties don't lay claim to any ethics or values so they can't be called hypocrites.
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It's simple a shortest path or best fit type of approach...not that there's anything wrong with that.
Inyer,
That one is the best so far.
That one is the best so far.
sad.gif irony.gif rubbing_their_noses_in_it.gif
That Wilkerson guy is going to end up in a ditch if he doesn't shut the hell up.
Another Thunderbolt from Wilkerson
By Dan Froomkin
Special to washingtonpost.com
Friday, November 4, 2005; 12:45 PM
Another shocking accusation by former administration insider Lawrence Wilkerson appears to be going under the media radar today.
On NPR yesterday, the former chief of staff to the secretary of state said that he had uncovered a "visible audit trail" tracing the practice of prisoner abuse by U.S. soldiers directly back to Vice President Cheney's office.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...5041100879.html
Another Thunderbolt from Wilkerson
By Dan Froomkin
Special to washingtonpost.com
Friday, November 4, 2005; 12:45 PM
Another shocking accusation by former administration insider Lawrence Wilkerson appears to be going under the media radar today.
On NPR yesterday, the former chief of staff to the secretary of state said that he had uncovered a "visible audit trail" tracing the practice of prisoner abuse by U.S. soldiers directly back to Vice President Cheney's office.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...5041100879.html
not in the media's best interest
davis¹³, et al,
While that evidence might have existed when COL Wilkerson assembled it, I doubt that anyone is going to be able to find it now.
(COMMENT)
I believe him - when he said he had it; but this is not Hollywood and no hero is going to suddenly show-up in front of Congress with the audit trail in hand.; after a hair-raising adventure. That material will never see the light of day.
Most Respectfully,
While that evidence might have existed when COL Wilkerson assembled it, I doubt that anyone is going to be able to find it now.
QUOTE(davis¹³ @ Nov 4 2005, 05:17 PM)
That Wilkerson guy is going to end up in a ditch if he doesn't shut the hell up.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...5041100879.html
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...5041100879.html
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(COMMENT)
I believe him - when he said he had it; but this is not Hollywood and no hero is going to suddenly show-up in front of Congress with the audit trail in hand.; after a hair-raising adventure. That material will never see the light of day.
Most Respectfully,
like bush natl guard records
like 911 air traffic tapes
like points on "who's line is it anyway"
like 911 air traffic tapes
like points on "who's line is it anyway"
QUOTE(RoccoR @ Nov 4 2005, 04:31 PM)
davis¹³, et al,
While that evidence might have existed when COL Wilkerson assembled it, I doubt that anyone is going to be able to find it now.
(COMMENT)
I believe him - when he said he had it; but this is not Hollywood and no hero is going to suddenly show-up in front of Congress with the audit trail in hand.; after a hair-raising adventure. That material will never see the light of day.
Most Respectfully,
[right][snapback]146426[/snapback][/right]
While that evidence might have existed when COL Wilkerson assembled it, I doubt that anyone is going to be able to find it now.
(COMMENT)
I believe him - when he said he had it; but this is not Hollywood and no hero is going to suddenly show-up in front of Congress with the audit trail in hand.; after a hair-raising adventure. That material will never see the light of day.
Most Respectfully,
[right][snapback]146426[/snapback][/right]
well Rocco, these guys learned a lot from the Iran/Contra days. And now they can also cover it all up using the Patriot Act. It won't end well.
QUOTE(RoccoR @ Nov 4 2005, 05:31 PM)
davis¹³, et al,
While that evidence might have existed when COL Wilkerson assembled it, I doubt that anyone is going to be able to find it now.
(COMMENT)
I believe him - when he said he had it; but this is not Hollywood and no hero is going to suddenly show-up in front of Congress with the audit trail in hand.; after a hair-raising adventure. That material will never see the light of day.
Most Respectfully,
[right][snapback]146426[/snapback][/right]
While that evidence might have existed when COL Wilkerson assembled it, I doubt that anyone is going to be able to find it now.
(COMMENT)
I believe him - when he said he had it; but this is not Hollywood and no hero is going to suddenly show-up in front of Congress with the audit trail in hand.; after a hair-raising adventure. That material will never see the light of day.
Most Respectfully,
[right][snapback]146426[/snapback][/right]
Sy Hersh did an oustanding job of tracing the torture policy from the Whitehouse to the field. If fell on deaf ears.
liberal media
We will never have a complete understanding of events leading up to the war. Unless someone has a George Wallace or McNamara type catharsis.
we have understanding
what we don't have is agreement
what we don't have is agreement
QUOTE(inyerface @ Nov 4 2005, 04:43 PM)
we have understanding
what we don't have is agreement
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what we don't have is agreement
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I disagree.
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