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Friend Judy
QUOTE(Arturo_Vandelay @ Nov 4 2005, 11:32 PM)
I have tracfone, so I screen my calls. sad.gif
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ROFL! Yeah, I use Tracfone, too, for my cell. I keep having to feed it cards to keep my phone number, and now have like 1000+ minutes stored up.

I guess I don't have enough "emergencies" to justify my emergency phone.

QUOTE(Bee @ Nov 5 2005, 03:06 PM)
What is "partial birth abortion?" If you are talking about a procedure that is very rare and usually invoked to save a womans life, then no. I'm not against saving a womans life.
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I have often wondered about that, and if opponents of "partial birth abortion" know what they're talking about.

In "partial birth abortion" (medically known as "intact dilation and extraction"), the fetus is killed, the mother is given drugs which soften and partially dilate the opening of the uterus, and then the fetus' body is expelled. Then, when it sticks, the fetus' head is deflated, so that it may be extracted without tearing the opening of the uterus and causing future miscarriages.

The alternatives to this procedure, assuming you ARE going to have a late-term abortion, are non-intact dilation and extraction (in which case, the fetus is chopped up, within the uterus, into pieces small enough to take out without tearing the mouth of the uterus, with accompanying risks to the mother of perforation of the uterus, and of leaving behind bone splinters or rotting pieces of the fetus, with a danger of uterine perforation or infection), or saline abortion, in which the fetus is killed (hopefully, more mercifully than by saline solution) and then the lining of the uterus is so irritated by the saline solution as to induce a premature labor and delivery, often again tearing the opening of the uterus and leaving the mother unable to carry future pregnancies to term.

I mean, if you're opposed to LATE TERM ABORTION, as I am, fine. But being opposed to the particular procedure that's both most painless for the fetus and safest for the mom, in favor of other procedures that are MORE painful and LESS safe, is nonsensical.
Arturo_Vandelay
The phone was $30, and I got 100 minutes in a referal program,10 free minutes, plus 10 minutes by activating online, so I ended up with 120 minutes and 4 months for my 30 bucks. I figure I can buy a new phone, refer myself, and have a warrantied phone for another 30 when this one runs out. Then I could give the old phone away or sell it cheap with at least 100 minutes on it.

A great deal since I mostly use it as a pager and make my long calls from land lines. But I have it since I'm out on the road with somebody in delicate condition quite a bit, and ride alone in fairly untraveled desert.
Bee
QUOTE(Arturo_Vandelay @ Nov 5 2005, 08:13 PM)
The phone was $30, and I got 100 minutes in a referal program,10 free minutes,  plus 10 minutes by activating online, so I ended up with 120 minutes and 4 months for my 30 bucks. I figure I can buy a new phone, refer myself, and have a warrantied phone for another 30 when this one runs out. Then I could give the old phone away or sell it cheap with at least 100 minutes on it.

A great deal since I mostly use it as a pager and make my long calls from land lines. But I have it since I'm out on the road with somebody in delicate condition quite a bit, and ride alone in fairly untraveled desert.
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Can I call you? Just to chat?

laugh.gif
SherryB
The investigation into Abramoff is reaching all over the republicans in Congress. Hastert, DeLay, Ney, how many others. How many seats could the dems take this year? Quite a few in OH I think. The whole state government is corrupt.




Republican subpoenaed in lobbyist Abramoff caseSat Nov 5, 2005 1:26 AM ET

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Ohio Republican lawmaker Robert Ney notified Congress on Friday that he has been subpoenaed by a federal grand jury examining the lobbying activities Jack Abramoff, the Washington Post reported on Saturday.

The subpoena seeks records and testimony from Ney's office, the paper wrote, quoting the lawmaker's spokesman as saying it is the first contact Ney has received from federal investigators looking at Abramoff, once one of Washington's most powerful lobbyists.

Ney has denied any wrongdoing.

The lawmaker has received campaign contributions from Abramoff and has accepted favors, including dinners at the lobbyist's downtown restaurant, a fundraiser and a golfing trip to Scotland in August 2002, according to public records, e-mails, interviews and documents obtained by The Washington Post.

As chairman of the House Administration Committee, Ney promised to add language to a bill to reopen a casino for a Texas Indian tribe that Abramoff represented, the paper wrote.

After Ney agreed to prepare the legislation, Abramoff directed tribal officials to make three contributions totaling $32,000 to Ney's campaign and political action committees. A Ney spokesman has said that the money has been donated to Ohio charities, the paper wrote.

NOW the money has been donated to charity. NOW that he got caught.

Sleazy scumsucking lying bastard.

© Reuters 2005. All Rights Reserved.
Bee
QUOTE(SherryB @ Nov 6 2005, 12:46 AM)
Sleazy scumsucking lying bastard.
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You are far too kind.

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roserose
I swear, I thought Reuters threw out all the lying scumsucking bastards along with the terrorist term thingie. Ooops that was the BBC. My bad.
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Bee
QUOTE(roserose @ Nov 6 2005, 12:59 AM)
I swear, I thought Reuters threw out all the lying scumsucking bastards along with the terrorist term thingie.  Ooops that was the BBC.  My bad.
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You is an Anglophobe?!!?!!!!

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roserose
this is anything but political ... phoebephoebe.
Carol
[quote=SherryB,Nov 5 2005, 05:42 PM]

What part of "proposal" don't you understand?

All the radical left has done is waste their time trying to slander the President of the United States. The lies and exaggerations speak reams about their confusion and hatred for a man that isn't even going to be running in the next election.



davisął


QUOTE
What part of "proposal" don't you understand?

All the radical left has done is waste their time trying to slander the President of the United States.  The lies and exaggerations speak reams about their confusion and hatred for a man that isn't even going to be running in the next election.






My friends, I tell you ... these French are soooooooo....

My friends, the liberals are soooooooo.....

My friends, the Democrats are soooooooo....

My friends, my septic tank is sooooooooo.....
my friends, the Bush haters are sooooooo...

Bush hater, Bush hater, Bush hater, Bush hater, Bush hater, Bush hater.
SherryB






I hold Bush personally responsible for the deaths of 2,034 American military, thousands of maimed, burned, broken military, the blood of tens of thousands of innocent civilians is on his hands.



He is the President and ultimately responsible for the decision to take us to war on LIES.



May he burn in hell.

Bee
QUOTE
Turn of the screw? Or just plain screwed?

This just out from Rep. Ney's office ...

I wanted to tell you directly that this week the Department of Justice asked the Congressman's office to provide documents related to the government's investigation of Jack Abramoff. Consistent with the Rules of the House of Representatives, the Congressman has informed the Speaker of this request and this request will be handled consistent with House Rules.

The Congressman has not been notified that he is the target of an investigation and we do not believe that there would be any grounds to do so. There have been a litany of unfounded allegations made against the Congressman by the Washington media in recent months and he looks forward to addressing them as thoroughly and expeditiously as possible with the appropriate entities looking into the Abramoff matter.

Congressman Ney has made the following statement regarding this matter: "As I have said repeatedly, we will cooperate fully with any inquiry. I voluntarily provided information to the Senate Indian Affairs Committee last year and I have offered to make myself available to meet with the House Ethics Committee. I believe, however, that although the government's investigation of Mr. Abramoff has been well-publicized through other sources, it is inappropriate for my office to comment in any detail about an ongoing investigation."


Can you say 'subpoenaed'? Apparently Ney's press secretary can't.

Here's what The Hill and Roll Call (sub.req.) have to say about Ney getting subpoenaed.

-- Josh Marshal

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/006928.php


Ney got Nailed.
Friend Judy
Yeah, did anyone see the hearing on Abramoff's dealings with that Indian tribe?

I thought the charitible donation to the sniper school was particularly choice. Along with the tax advisor who didn't see anything unusual about charitable donations to sniper schools.
inyerface
Before Rearming Iraq, He Sold Shoes and Flowers
# The U.S. chose Ziad Cattan to oversee military buying because he could get things done. He did, but now he faces corruption charges.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/wo...-home-headlines

"Before, I sold water, flowers, shoes, cars — but not weapons," said Cattan, who signed most of the 89 military contracts worth nearly $1.3 billion to equip Iraqi security forces, according to the documents. "We didn't know anything about weapons."

Cattan's improbable rise and fall raises troubling questions about American oversight of the Iraqi army's development, considered the most important mission in reducing the number of U.S. troops in harm's way.

The portrait that emerges from interviews and documents is a Defense Ministry whose members were picked with the care of choosing a pickup basketball team
Bee
I thought Matt had a funny comment about that.

QUOTE
Success!
By Matthew Yglesias

Some have doubted whether the Bush administration can really create an American-style democracy in Iraq. Evidence indicates, however, that they're succeeding wildly:

Ziad Cattan was a Polish Iraqi used-car dealer with no weapons-dealing experience until U.S. authorities turned him into one of the most powerful men in Iraq last year — the chief of procurement for the Defense Ministry, responsible for equipping the fledgling Iraqi army.

As U.S. advisors looked on, Cattan embarked on a massive spending spree, paying hundreds of millions of dollars in Iraqi funds for secret, no-bid contracts, according to interviews with more than a dozen senior American, coalition and Iraqi officials, and documents obtained by the Los Angeles Times. The money flowed, often in bricks of cash, through the hands of middlemen who were friends of Cattan and took a percentage of the proceeds.


Cattan's obviously learned a lot from Bush, DeLay, Abramoff, Blunt, etc. It's a model that, I'm sure, will take the world by storm any day now.
http://yglesias.tpmcafe.com/story/2005/11/6/103910/307
Friend Judy
QUOTE
DeLay Uses Campaign Tactics to Fight Charges

By Jonathan Weisman
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, November 6, 2005; Page A07

With his future tied to the outcome of a criminal indictment in Texas, Rep. Tom DeLay (R-Tex.) is using an extraordinary array of campaign tactics to try to win his court battle and save his political career.

Other politicians caught in a legal bind have tried to make a similar case that they were victims of prosecutorial excess or partisan attack. But few have done it to the degree of DeLay and his allies, who have launched an aggressive campaign to portray the former House majority leader as both a victim of a vendetta and an irreplaceable champion of conservatism.

By so doing, DeLay's team hopes to accomplish three critical goals: undermine the stature of his Democratic prosecutor, Ronnie Earle, in the minds of potential Texas jurors; win over DeLay's suburban Houston constituents before a potentially difficult reelection campaign; and retain his political base in Washington before a planned return to power.

The effort includes television advertisement that portrays Earle as a snarling Rottweiler, a staff of well-connected communications aides and skillful lawyers, e-mail blitzes, talking points for friendly radio hosts, speeches and a bulging legal defense fund.


Yeah, Earle really needs to get an injunction against those rottweiler ads. A very clear case of an attempt to poison the jury pool.
Friend Judy
QUOTE

AP: DeLay's Staff Tried to Help Abramoff

By JOHN SOLOMON
The Associated Press
Thursday, November 3, 2005; 3:23 PM

WASHINGTON -- Investigators have unearthed e-mails showing Rep. Tom DeLay's office tried to help lobbyist Jack Abramoff get a high-level Bush administration meeting for Indian clients, an effort that succeeded after the tribes began making a quarter-million dollars in donations.

Tribal money went both to a group founded by Interior Secretary Gale Norton, the Cabinet secretary Abramoff was trying to meet, as well as to DeLay's personal charity.

"Do you think you could call that friend and set up a meeting," then-DeLay staffer Tony Rudy wrote to fellow House aide Thomas Pyle in a Dec. 29, 2000, e-mail titled "Gale Norton-Interior Secretary." President Bush had nominated Norton to the post the day before.

Rudy wrote Abramoff that same day promising he had "good news" about securing a meeting with Norton, forwarding information about the environmental group Norton had founded, according to e-mails obtained by investigators and reviewed by The Associated Press. Rudy's message to Abramoff was sent from Congress' official e-mail system.

Within months, Abramoff clients donated heavily to the Norton-founded group and to DeLay's personal charity. The Coushatta Indian tribe, for instance, wrote checks in March 2001 for $50,000 to the Norton group and $10,000 to the DeLay Foundation, tribal records show.

The lobbyist and the Coushattas eventually won face-to-face time with the secretary during a Sept. 24, 2001, dinner sponsored by the group she had founded.

Abramoff's clients were trying to stop a rival Indian tribe from winning Interior Department approval to build a casino.

Federal and congressional investigators have obtained the DeLay staff e-mails from Abramoff's former lobbying firm as they try to determine whether officials in Congress or the Bush administration provided government assistance in exchange for the money Abramoff's clients donated to Republican causes.

The assistance to Abramoff from DeLay's staff occurred just a few months after DeLay received political donations, free use of a Washington arena skybox to reward donors and an all-expense-paid trip to play golf in Scotland arranged by Abramoff and mostly underwritten by his clients.

DeLay's lawyer said this week his client probably didn't know about the assistance his aides gave Abramoff five years ago and does not believe his office would ever provide government assistance in exchange for political donations.

"On its face it's not unusual for staffers to assist people trying to get a meeting with an executive branch agency and that would be something a member of Congress would not typically be involved with. That's staff work," attorney Richard Cullen said in an interview.

"Tom DeLay conducts himself consistent with the highest standards of conduct and he mandated the same for his staff," Cullen said.  (more)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...5110300436.html


The most puzzling thing about this (and other ethics scandals) is the complete lack of effort at hiding any of this. Is it hubris, or are they so lacking in morality that they truly believe that none of this is wrong, scandalous, stinking, a stench in the nostrils of the public?

And what the hell is wrong with our right wing posters that they defend this sort of crap as being acceptable or excusable?
davisął
QUOTE(Friend Judy @ Nov 6 2005, 12:54 PM)
The most puzzling thing about this (and other ethics scandals) is the complete lack of effort at hiding any of this.  Is it hubris, or are they so lacking in morality that they truly believe that none of this is wrong, scandalous, stinking, a stench in the nostrils of the public?

And what the hell is wrong with our right wing posters that they defend this sort of crap as being acceptable or excusable?
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it's all a media conspiracy. It's them against the world.

If the evidence against them is overwhelming it's only obvious it was a set up by a disgruntled former insider.
SherryB
QUOTE(davisął @ Nov 6 2005, 03:02 PM)
it's all a media conspiracy. It's them against the world.

If the evidence against them is overwhelming it's only obvious it was a set up by a disgruntled former insider.
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No, it's just that they have been brainwashed. They, like the Christian fundies, have been manipulated and lied to for so long they can't accept the truth.

DeLay's aide called them "whackos". He'd know.

davisął
QUOTE(SherryB @ Nov 6 2005, 01:10 PM)
No, it's just that they have been brainwashed.  They, like the Christian fundies, have been manipulated and lied to for so long they can't accept the truth.

  DeLay's aide called them "whackos".  He'd know.
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Anything for the cause. Don't worry about laws, they are for other people. Remember the pardon. Worked real good for Ollie and Elliot.
Bee
QUOTE(Friend Judy @ Nov 6 2005, 01:44 PM)
Yeah, Earle really needs to get an injunction against those rottweiler ads.  A very clear case of an attempt to poison the jury pool.
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He's using personal funds for these ads, right?

davisął
QUOTE(Bee @ Nov 6 2005, 01:13 PM)
He's using personal funds for these ads, right?
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I thought he was soliciting funds from allies.
Friend Judy
QUOTE(Bee @ Nov 6 2005, 01:13 PM)
He's using personal funds for these ads, right?
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ROFLROFLROFL!

No, he isn't. He's using campaign funds. Not even his legal defense fund, his campaign funds.

That's part of what I mean about their baffling shamelessness.
SherryB


Recently indicted Michael Scanlon, DeLay aide:

"The wackos get their information through the Christian right, Christian radio, mail, the internet and telephone trees," Scanlon wrote in the memo, which was read into the public record at a hearing of the Senate Indian Affairs Committee. "Simply put, we want to bring out the wackos to vote against something and make sure the rest of the public lets the whole thing slip past them." The brilliance of this strategy was twofold: Not only would most voters not know about an initiative to protect Coushatta gambling revenues, but religious "wackos" could be tricked into supporting gambling at the Coushatta casino even as they thought they were opposing it.

I sent an e-mail to James Dobson and cited the above and asked him how "in God's name he could continue to support the republican party.

I haven't received a reply.



davisął
QUOTE(SherryB @ Nov 6 2005, 01:21 PM)
Recently indicted Michael Scanlon, DeLay aide:

"The wackos get their information through the Christian right, Christian radio, mail, the internet and telephone trees," Scanlon wrote in the memo, which was read into the public record at a hearing of the Senate Indian Affairs Committee. "Simply put, we want to bring out the wackos to vote against something and make sure the rest of the public lets the whole thing slip past them." The brilliance of this strategy was twofold: Not only would most voters not know about an initiative to protect Coushatta gambling revenues, but religious "wackos" could be tricked into supporting gambling at the Coushatta casino even as they thought they were opposing it.

  I sent an e-mail to James Dobson and cited the above and asked him how "in God's name he could continue to support the republican party.

  I haven't received a reply.
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And you won't. He, like many other evangelicals have been bought and paid for. Poisoned by money. The thing that really amazes me is the rightwingers. They hate Democrats who try to appear religious but won't comment on Scanlon even though it's obvious he considers evangelicals as being played for chumps. They are so stupid and arrogant they will continue to support him and his allies because it's the only way they can hope for any power.

How about that Ralph Reed? laugh.gif
Bee
QUOTE(davisął @ Nov 6 2005, 02:15 PM)
I thought he was soliciting funds from allies.
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Hmmm. Wonder if they'd be held responsible if these ads are found to be a form of slander or libel.

wink.gif
Friend Judy
Earle is a public figure, hence he cannot sue for slander or libel. (Though that's a law I'd like to see modified.)

But hmmm, Earle could make a pretty good case for the "malice aforethought" exception to the public figure exception.
SpaceCowboy
At some point the people of Texas may get tired of Delay acting like he's above the law.
Mizilus
are there any people in texass? Or is it just repuslickans?
SpaceCowboy
QUOTE(Mizilus @ Nov 6 2005, 03:06 PM)
are there any people in texass? Or is it just repuslickans?
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Do Mexicans count?
roserose
QUOTE(SpaceCowboy @ Nov 6 2005, 02:09 PM)
Do Mexicans count?
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63/64ths + one red hair. tongue.gif
Mizilus
QUOTE(SpaceCowboy @ Nov 6 2005, 12:09 PM)
Do Mexicans count?
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Do you mean native Texicans?
SpaceCowboy
QUOTE(Mizilus @ Nov 6 2005, 03:18 PM)
Do you mean native Texicans?
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No, the ones that came here later.
Friend Judy
QUOTE(roserose @ Nov 6 2005, 02:17 PM)
63/64ths + one red hair. tongue.gif
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I gotta lighten up on the herbal supplement. I actually understood something rose said!
Arturo_Vandelay
QUOTE(Friend Judy @ Nov 6 2005, 12:46 PM)
Earle is a public figure, hence he cannot sue for slander or libel.  (Though that's a law I'd like to see modified.)

But hmmm, Earle could make a pretty good case for the "malice aforethought" exception to the public figure exception.
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Earle has his public office to use against his enemies, and his speeches to his Democrat s to prove that he was planning from the start to bring down DeLay. It's a fair political fight, especially considering most people assume a prosecutor has some proof of wrongdoing, even if has to shop for a favorable jury that has just been brought in.
SpaceCowboy
I was poking around at the Smoking Gun for something to do.

I think this is a class mug shot:

user posted image

In 1972, actor Steve McQueen was busted in Anchorage, Alaska for drunk driving. The star of films such as "The Magnificent Seven" and "The Great Escape" posted bail and left town. He was later convicted in absentia for reckless driving.
Arturo_Vandelay
He trying to imply he only had two beers?
SpaceCowboy
QUOTE(Arturo_Vandelay @ Nov 6 2005, 03:37 PM)
Earle has his public office to use against his enemies, and his speeches to his Democrat s to prove that he was planning from the start to bring down DeLay. It's a fair political fight, especially considering most people assume a prosecutor has some proof of wrongdoing, even if has to shop for a favorable jury that has just been brought in.
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Delay has fame, political clout second only to George Bush, and unlimited money.

Worse for the state’s case, Dick DeGuerin is an A+ to Ronnie Earl’s C.

It is a fact of life that the finest trial lawyers generally end up in private practice, though young stars will prosecute for a few years to make a reputation. If they are really good, the offers come pouring in. Ronnie done been Travis county Prosecutor for 27 years now.

He’s no Clarence Darrow.
SpaceCowboy
QUOTE(Arturo_Vandelay @ Nov 6 2005, 04:09 PM)
He trying to imply he only had two beers?
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That, or the insouciance that made him what he was.
SpaceCowboy
I would agree that the average criminal defendant is at great disadvantage to the State, however.
Arturo_Vandelay
QUOTE(SpaceCowboy @ Nov 6 2005, 02:18 PM)
Delay has fame, political clout second only to George Bush, and unlimited money.


He’s no Clarence Darrow.
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He's no Henry Darrow. But he's all the Dems had at the time.
SpaceCowboy
QUOTE(Arturo_Vandelay @ Nov 6 2005, 04:23 PM)
He's no Henry Darrow. But he's all the Dems had at the time.
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He the fargin' county prosecutor, not some hit-man.
Arturo_Vandelay
QUOTE(SpaceCowboy @ Nov 6 2005, 02:21 PM)
I would agree that the average criminal defendant is at great disadvantage to the State, however.
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The average defendant doesn't have a prosecutor say well in advance in a political environment he's going to bring somebody down. Maybe Capone had that problem.
Arturo_Vandelay
QUOTE(SpaceCowboy @ Nov 6 2005, 02:25 PM)
He the fargin' county prosecutor, not some hit-man.
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Maybe he should have kept his mouth shut beforehand and it wouldn't look like he was a hitman.
SpaceCowboy
QUOTE(Arturo_Vandelay @ Nov 6 2005, 04:27 PM)
Maybe he should have kept his mouth shut beforehand and it wouldn't look like he was a hitman.
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It's a little strange to see a local shlub morphed into some Paul Bunyon character by the national press.
Arturo_Vandelay
They're just hoping he is. Who knows, maybe they'll get their wish. I'd always kinda hoped DeLay would go away, but not in a political Vendetta.
SherryB
QUOTE(Arturo_Vandelay @ Nov 6 2005, 05:56 PM)
They're just hoping he is. Who knows, maybe they'll get their wish. I'd always kinda hoped DeLay would go away, but not in a political Vendetta.
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He has been slapped three times by the REPUBLICAN LED ethics committee for being so corrupt.

He'd have been in jail long ago if democrats had subpoena power.

Many republicans want him out but fear retribution if they speak out. Too much money to be made.


SherryB
If Earl doesn't get him, the Abramoff probe is working it's way through Congress.

It's going to take a few congressmen out with it. All republicans, I think.
SpaceCowboy
QUOTE(Arturo_Vandelay @ Nov 6 2005, 04:56 PM)
They're just hoping he is. Who knows, maybe they'll get their wish. I'd always kinda hoped DeLay would go away, but not in a political Vendetta.
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He'll be fine.

Unless he's guilty.

Then he's got a 50-50 chance.
SpaceCowboy
QUOTE(SherryB @ Nov 6 2005, 05:04 PM)
If Earl doesn't get him, the Abramoff probe is working it's way through Congress.

  It's going to take a few congressmen out with it.  All republicans, I think.
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The problem with Abramoff is that he is such a con-man. In the Indian deals, it's already clear that he claimed a lot more influence than he had, charging millions for influence buys that weren't. That may work to the benefit of would be defendants.
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