Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Ethics/Values in politics
C-Span sucks community > politics > Political Soapbox
Pages: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86, 87, 88, 89, 90, 91, 92, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99, 100, 101, 102, 103, 104, 105, 106, 107, 108, 109, 110, 111, 112, 113, 114, 115, 116, 117, 118, 119, 120, 121, 122, 123, 124, 125, 126, 127, 128, 129, 130, 131, 132, 133, 134, 135, 136, 137, 138, 139, 140, 141, 142, 143, 144, 145, 146, 147, 148, 149, 150, 151, 152, 153, 154, 155, 156, 157, 158, 159, 160, 161, 162, 163, 164, 165, 166, 167, 168, 169, 170, 171, 172, 173, 174, 175, 176, 177, 178, 179, 180, 181, 182, 183, 184, 185, 186, 187, 188, 189, 190
SpaceCowboy
QUOTE(RoccoR @ Nov 23 2005, 11:29 AM)
Bart Katz, et al,

I think this is just a crafty legal play on the part of the Government which has a weak case.
(COMMENT)

While I believe there is probably cause to charge Padilla, I am opposed to the idea that the Government can indefinitely hold a US Citizen without due process.

We are not that kind of government.

Most Respectfully,
[right][snapback]155004[/snapback][/right]

I've read the indictment which appears to rely heavily on intercepted conversations among of network of Jihadi supporters who sent Padilla and others for paramilitary training/operation in Egypt, Somalia, and Bosnia. Intercepts appear to go back to 1996 and carry forward to 2002. Individuals asscociated with the Blind Sheik appear to be involved. Padilla appaears to have volunteered for Jihad overseas.

The indictment is worth reading.
gtessex
QUOTE(RoccoR @ Nov 23 2005, 12:29 PM)
While I believe there is probably cause to charge Padilla, I am opposed to the idea that the Government can indefinitely hold a US Citizen without due process.


Depends if what Padilla did was a 'crime' or an 'act of war'?
I believe there is a difference!
Bart Katz
QUOTE(RoccoR @ Nov 23 2005, 10:29 AM)
Bart Katz, et al,

I think this is just a crafty legal play on the part of the Government which has a weak case.
(COMMENT)

While I believe there is probably cause to charge Padilla, I am opposed to the idea that the Government can indefinitely hold a US Citizen without due process.

We are not that kind of government.

Most Respectfully,
[right][snapback]155004[/snapback][/right]


Padilla goes from the frying pan into the fire. In the federal court system, he may get more than he bargained for.
Arturo_Vandelay
One might want to at least hold them until all their ties had been investigated. If their name and exactly what they did appears in the paper it's likely to set some alarm bells ringing in the terrorist world.

Crime or act of war is a tight call. The reality is there aren't jails full of US citizens help on terror charges.
SpaceCowboy
Numerous lying to the FBI perjury and obstruction of justice charges are also included in the indictment - these look to be easy to prove up based upon the intercepts.
SpaceCowboy
QUOTE(Arturo_Vandelay @ Nov 23 2005, 12:08 PM)
One might want to at least hold them until all their ties had been investigated. If their name and exactly what they did appears in the paper it's likely to set some alarm bells ringing in the terrorist world.

Crime or act of war is a tight call. The reality is there aren't jails full of US citizens help on terror charges.
[right][snapback]155011[/snapback][/right]

The case may reveal a lot about our ability to intercept communications and how long we have been doing so.
beasty
QUOTE(SpaceCowboy @ Nov 23 2005, 10:13 AM)
The case may reveal a lot about our ability to intercept communications and how long we have been doing so.
[right][snapback]155016[/snapback][/right]


I'm pretty sure that's a main reason they've tried to postpone this moment as long as possible. It will probably harm our efforts to fight terror to some degree, but less than it would have in 2002.
Arturo_Vandelay
QUOTE(beasty @ Nov 23 2005, 10:18 AM)
I'm pretty sure that's a main reason they've tried to postpone this moment as long as possible. It will probably harm our efforts to fight terror to some degree, but less than it would have in 2002.
[right][snapback]155017[/snapback][/right]


I'll have to hold my tongue on the motivations behind forcing this to a head. At least it took a while. Hopefully real civil libertarians will find a middle ground between security and freedom that has some common sense.

I'm afraid a few people really don't care about liberty, just running down Bush.
SpaceCowboy
QUOTE(beasty @ Nov 23 2005, 12:18 PM)
I'm pretty sure that's a main reason they've tried to postpone this moment as long as possible. It will probably harm our efforts to fight terror to some degree, but less than it would have in 2002.
[right][snapback]155017[/snapback][/right]

The conversations cited in the indictment appear to show that either we were closely focused on this group back in 1996, or we record everything, and have the ability to go back and retrieve individual telecons years afterward.
beasty
QUOTE(SpaceCowboy @ Nov 23 2005, 10:25 AM)
The conversations cited in the indictment appear to show that either we were closely focused on this group back in 1996, or we record everything, and have the ability to go back and retrieve individual telecons years afterward.
[right][snapback]155019[/snapback][/right]


I'll have to look more closely at it all later. I'm only "working" a half day, then a long weekend, so maybe I can read up a little more.
Friend Judy
QUOTE(Arturo_Vandelay @ Nov 23 2005, 11:22 AM)
I'll have to hold my tongue on the motivations behind forcing this to a head. At least it took a while. Hopefully real civil libertarians will find a middle ground between security and freedom that has some common sense.

I'm afraid a few people really don't care about liberty, just running down Bush.
[right][snapback]155018[/snapback][/right]


There is no middle ground. Either a citizen can be held indefinitely by the government without charge or showing of cause, or not. Any other position is to argue that we have as much "freedom" as the government chooses to give us.

And before anyone tries to say that's not what I've said in the past, quittit now. We reached an agreement 200 years ago:

QUOTE
Amendment V - Trial and Punishment, Compensation for Takings. Ratified 12/15/1791.

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Amendment VI - Right to speedy trial, confrontation of witnesses. Ratified 12/15/1791.

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.


Padilla has only been charged because the deadline was Monday for the adminstration to file its arguments to the court as to why the Fifth and Sixth Amendments have been violated, and I hope to hell that neither the ACLU nor the court lets the Feds off the hook by claiming that the years-too-late charges now render the initial question--can an American citizen be held without charge or trial?"--moot.
Arturo_Vandelay
QUOTE(Friend Judy @ Nov 23 2005, 10:39 AM)
There is no middle ground.  Either a citizen can be held indefinitely by the government without charge or showing of cause, or not.  Any other position is to argue that we have as much "freedom" as the government chooses to give us.

[right][snapback]155022[/snapback][/right]


When a citizen goes over to the enemy in demonstrable fashion and is actively working as a sabateur and not a criminal I'm ready to revoke their citizenship rights and call them enemy combatants for a bit. I see plenty of room for special circumstances and am not ready to call the Constitution a suicide pact.

I'd be more worried if they'd rushed him to a kangaroo court and executed him on false evidence. He's alive, and we didn't have to expose our methods in open court on a speedy trial timetable.
judy
[center]'TWAS THE NIGHT OF THANKSGIVING -


user posted image

'Twas the night of Thanksgiving, but I just couldn't sleep,
I tried counting backward, I tried counting sheep.
The leftovers, they beckoned - the dark meat and white,
But I fought the temptation with all of my might!

Tossing and turning with anticipation,
The thought of a snack became infatuation.
So...I raced to the kitchen, flung open the door
And gazed at the "fridge", full of goodies galore.

I gobbled up turkey and buttered potatoes,
Pickles and carrots, beans and tomatoes.
I felt myself swelling so plump and so round,
'Till all of a sudden, I rose off the ground.

I crashed through the ceiling, floating to the sky
With a mouthful of pudding and a handfull of pie.
But I managed to yell as I soared past the trees...
"Happy eating to all - pass the cranberries, please."

May your stuffing be tasty...may your turkey be plump.
May your potatoes'n gravy have nary a lump.
May your yams be delicious...may your pies take the prize.
May your Thanksgiving dinner stay off of your thighs.

HAVE A WONDERFUL THANKSGIVING EVERYBODY! [/center]

Friend Judy
QUOTE(Arturo_Vandelay @ Nov 23 2005, 11:48 AM)
When a citizen goes over to the enemy in demonstrable fashion and is actively working as a sabateur and not a criminal I'm ready to revoke their citizenship rights and call them enemy combatants for a bit. I see plenty of room for special circumstances and am not ready to call the Constitution a suicide pact.

  I'd be more worried if they'd rushed him to a kangaroo court and executed him on false evidence. He's alive, and we didn't have to expose our methods in open court on a speedy trial timetable.
[right][snapback]155026[/snapback][/right]


OK. I'll put you down for a vote for "Constitution is not binding and can be discarded without explanation whenever its deemed not convenient by the gubmint.

One for "rights optional at the discretion of the king".
Arturo_Vandelay
I wonder how thankful that turkey is gonna be? My family doesn't do Thanksgiving dinner anymore. We set a new regime of not rewarding ourselves with food. I'm cooking a very small turkey at home, but only enough for one day for me and the cats, and a few leftovers.

25 pounds down, 25 to go.
Friend Judy
You might want to take note, AV, that turkey itself is very low calorie. It's the rest of the stuff normally served with it that's the problem.
Arturo_Vandelay
QUOTE(Friend Judy @ Nov 23 2005, 10:57 AM)
OK.  I'll put you down for a vote for "Constitution is not binding and can be discarded without explanation whenever its deemed not convenient by the gubmint.

One for "rights optional at the discretion of the king".
[right][snapback]155036[/snapback][/right]


Yeah yeah yeah. You're a pro suicide pact strict Constitutionalist.(most of the time) I figure the system worked OK. They delayed things long enough to protect sources and methods, and Padilla will get a trial.

Personally I hope he goes the way of Dahmer, but more people will want to protect him than there were with Jeffrey.
Arturo_Vandelay
QUOTE(Friend Judy @ Nov 23 2005, 11:00 AM)
You might want to take note, AV, that turkey itself is very low calorie.  It's the rest of the stuff normally served with it that's the problem.
[right][snapback]155040[/snapback][/right]


Just why I only have turkey and use butter substitute and dry gravy for my potatoes. I count every calorie and it's usage so as to lose about one pound a week.
Friend Judy
Here, here's a recipe for very good, very very low calorie gravy:

Take about 3 cups chicken broth, add 2 ribs of celery very coarsely chopped, 1/2 teaspoon thyme and a pinch of sage. Simmer about 20 minutes, then remove celery. Stir 4 tablespoons cornstarch into 3/4 cup water or broth, remove boiling broth from flame, slowly pour into broth and return to heat, stirring constantly till it boils again.

There you go, delicious no-fat gravy, 40 calories per cup, use all you want. The fattening part is the mashed potatoes and dressing you're pouring it over.
Arturo_Vandelay
I've gone to making dry potatoes with no milk, then mixing in dry gravy mix and a bit of extra water, with I Can't Believe It's Not Butter. Easy one dish turkey flavored potatoes that don't hurt my 3000 calorie a day diet.
Mizilus
QUOTE(Arturo_Vandelay @ Nov 23 2005, 10:59 AM)
I've gone to making dry potatoes with no milk, then mixing in dry gravy mix and a bit of extra water, with I Can't Believe It's Not Butter. Easy one dish turkey flavored potatoes that don't hurt my 3000 calorie a day diet.
[right][snapback]155077[/snapback][/right]


That is sooooo bachelor. I'll drink to that.

For a real man the less work in preparation tha happier the Thanksgiving. Er, I mean turkey holiday.
Friend Judy
QUOTE(Arturo_Vandelay @ Nov 23 2005, 12:59 PM)
I've gone to making dry potatoes with no milk, then mixing in dry gravy mix and a bit of extra water, with I Can't Believe It's Not Butter. Easy one dish turkey flavored potatoes that don't hurt my 3000 calorie a day diet.
[right][snapback]155077[/snapback][/right]


I've really never understood this kind of dieting. There's what, 70 calories in the 1/3 cup of milk you use to make 2-3 cups of potatoes, and 50 in the tablespoon of butter?

Why not just make them normal (or even with extra butter), and just eat 3 bites less of the finished product?
SpaceCowboy
QUOTE(Friend Judy @ Nov 23 2005, 04:38 PM)
I've really never understood this kind of dieting.  There's what, 70 calories in the 1/3 cup of milk you use to make 2-3 cups of potatoes, and 50 in the tablespoon of butter?

Why not just make them normal (or even with extra butter), and just eat 3 bites less of the finished product?
[right][snapback]155133[/snapback][/right]

'Cause we want to have something to eat, but not something that tastes too good.
Arturo_Vandelay
Because I can have an extra three bites without affecting the flavor much. Then I feel fuller and am less likely to grab a snack later. That 120 calories isn't much, but on a daily basis it's 12 1/2 pounds a year.

I don't consider it a "diet", just a way to slowly lose the weight I gained when I got sick and maintain a healthy weight afterwards. All with relatively minor changes in diet and exercise.
Arturo_Vandelay
QUOTE(SpaceCowboy @ Nov 23 2005, 03:20 PM)
'Cause we want to have something to eat,  but not something that tastes too good.
[right][snapback]155144[/snapback][/right]


I don't feel like it's a big sacrifice flavor wise. And it's fast and easy.
Friend Judy
For me, it would be a big sacrifice, flavor-wise, texture-wise, and gratification-wise.

But I conceded, I'd certainly lose weight fast if I made mashed potatoes like that, being as I'd rather not eat them at all. But then, what do I know, I refuse to eat instant mashed potatoes period.
SpaceCowboy
QUOTE(Friend Judy @ Nov 23 2005, 05:35 PM)
[B]For me, it would be a big sacrifice, flavor-wise, texture-wise, and gratification-wise.[/B]

But I conceded, I'd certainly lose weight fast if I made mashed potatoes like that, being as I'd rather not eat them at all.  But then, what do I know, I refuse to eat instant mashed potatoes period.
[right][snapback]155151[/snapback][/right]

Therefore not a big reward, either. That's the point. Make eating a neutral necessity, not a treat.

Potatoes again. Oh hell, I guess I'll eat a few just to keep my strength up.
Friend Judy
"A neutral necessity"????

BLASPHEMY!!!!! HERETIC!!!! BURN THE WITCH!!!

Food is one of the great joys of life. Not just the eating of it. (That would be where some people err!) It's the growing of it, contemplating it, handling it, smelling it, messing around with it.

That would be your problem, if all you do is eat it. If you really get into the Total Food Experience, you can spend a good four or five hours of joy in the procuring, preparing and eating of a measly little 500 calories!
SpaceCowboy
QUOTE(Friend Judy @ Nov 23 2005, 05:49 PM)
"A neutral necessity"????

BLASPHEMY!!!!!  HERETIC!!!!  BURN THE WITCH!!!

Food is one of the great joys of life.  Not just the eating of it.  (That would be where some people err!)  It's the growing of it, contemplating it, handling it, smelling it, messing around with it.

That would be your problem, if all you do is eat it.  If you really get into the Total Food Experience, you can spend a good four or five hours of joy in the procuring, preparing and eating of a measly little 500 calories!
[right][snapback]155158[/snapback][/right]

Last time I went on a diet I ate nothing but boiled rice with soy sauce.

I always ate as much as I wanted. After a while, I didn't want very much.
Friend Judy
Poor deprived man, never having had the four-month joyful experience of growing tomatoes, from the anticipatory excitement of reading seed catalogues in January, through the suspense of jumping out of bed every morning and rushing to the windowsill to see if your seeds have sprouted in their little plastic pony packs, through the fresh air and excercise of spading the garden and setting up a wall of water, the evenings listening attentively to the weather forcast and rushing out to cover your babies with sheets..

Then on to the joy of the first tomato blossom, and the little pea-sized tomatoes-to-be, the watering of them, watching for the first blush of pink, mouth watering in anticipation of how they're going to taste...

And then, the Day of the Eating! Out at 8 a.m. carrying your babies in in your apron, crushing them, the sizzle of onions and garlic in olive oil, the hours of heavenly aroma and stirring and tasting...

Trust me, with the Total Food Experience, by the time you get around to the 500-calorie plate of pasta, you've burned up a whole lot more than 500 calories.
Arturo_Vandelay
Hey. I LIKE potatoes. Real is better, but sometimes I like the convenience of instant. And it's a good deal in the off season. I bought a 5 1/2 pound can of flakes for $1.29. Goes a LONG way.

I also like sectioned potatoes boiling in cajun flavoring. Low cal and spicey.
SpaceCowboy
QUOTE(Arturo_Vandelay @ Nov 23 2005, 06:01 PM)
Hey. I LIKE potatoes. Real is better, but sometimes I like the convenience of instant. And it's a good deal in the off season. I bought a 5 1/2 pound can of flakes for $1.29. Goes a LONG way.

I also like sectioned potatoes boiling in cajun flavoring. Low cal and spicey.
[right][snapback]155163[/snapback][/right]

That last is a good idea. I like boiled new potatoes with butter and garlic.
Arturo_Vandelay
QUOTE(Friend Judy @ Nov 23 2005, 03:49 PM)
"A neutral necessity"????

BLASPHEMY!!!!!  HERETIC!!!!  BURN THE WITCH!!!

Food is one of the great joys of life.  Not just the eating of it.  (That would be where some people err!)  It's the growing of it, contemplating it, handling it, smelling it, messing around with it.

[right][snapback]155158[/snapback][/right]



I eat less when I cook a long time. Often I don't even taste it until it's finished.
Friend Judy
Actually, for a yummy potato experience, try simply quartering red potatoes, tossing them in olive oil with crushed garlic and rosemary, then roast them uncovered in a pan for 25 minutes.
Arturo_Vandelay
QUOTE(SpaceCowboy @ Nov 23 2005, 04:03 PM)
That last is a good idea. I like boiled new potatoes with butter and garlic.
[right][snapback]155164[/snapback][/right]


I cook it a long time, until it's part chunky and part gravy. Popeye's cajun sprinkle is the best, but the cheap stuff will do in a pinch.
SherryB
QUOTE(RoccoR @ Nov 23 2005, 12:24 PM)
et al,

Does anyone understand what "Mike Scanlon" is doing (singing about)?

Who are the players and how do they fit together?

Regards,
R
[right][snapback]155000[/snapback][/right]


The investigations should all come to a head in time for the '06 elections. smile.gif

The money laundering charges of DeLay.

The CIA leak investigation.

But by far the most free ranging, the Abramoff investigation.

Lobbyist Charged in Fraud Inquiry

Michael Scanlon, once an aide to Tom DeLay, is expected to cooperate with prosecutors in the investigation of former partner Jack Abramoff.

By Chuck Neubauer and Walter F. Roche Jr., Times Staff Writers


WASHINGTON — A federal investigation of corrupt lobbying practices on Capitol Hill intensified Friday as a former business associate of lobbyist Jack Abramoff signaled that he would plead guilty to a charge that the two conspired to defraud four Indian tribes out of millions of dollars and to improperly influence a member of Congress.

The plea deal, which is expected to be formalized early next week and includes Michael Scanlon's promise to cooperate with federal prosecutors, marks a major development in a widening probe of Abramoff that has shaken Congress.

In an eight-page criminal information filed in U.S. District Court, federal prosecutors charged that Scanlon, 35, worked with Abramoff to extract $52.9 million in fees from the Indian tribes under false pretenses. The two then secretly shared nearly $40 million in profits, prosecutors charged.

The criminal information, a form of criminal charge that is usually a prelude to a plea agreement, also said that Scanlon and Abramoff illegally conspired to influence a member of Congress. The member of Congress is identified in the information only as "Representative #1," but details of the charges described specific actions known to have been taken by U.S. Rep. Bob Ney (R-Ohio).

Ney spokesman Brian J. Walsh said the congressman would "fully cooperate in the investigation of the Abramoff matter. He has not been told that he is the target of any investigation, and there would be no grounds to do so."

Ney has repeatedly denied any wrongdoing.

Scanlon's cooperation could help break open the criminal investigation into Abramoff and his dealings with members of Congress and the administration. His insider's knowledge could be invaluable in developing criminal cases.

Scanlon was a top aide and communications director to Rep. Tom DeLay (R-Texas) when DeLay was House majority whip. Scanlon left the congressional payroll in late 1999, and later teamed up with Abramoff, who was once one of the most influential lobbyists in Washington. Scanlon faces a single charge of conspiracy.

In a statement, Scanlon's attorney, Stephen Braga, said that at a court hearing Monday, "Mr. Scanlon and the Department of Justice will present a proposed plea agreement to the court to resolve the charge contained in the information."

Abramoff, who was not charged in the documents made public Friday, declined to comment through a spokesman.

In August, Abramoff was indicted by a federal grand jury in Florida on six counts of fraud and conspiracy relating to his role in the purchase of a fleet of gambling boats. He has pleaded not guilty.

The Abramoff investigation has caused widespread worry in Congress because the onetime lobbyist maintained broad connections among lawmakers.

Abramoff arranged for a Scottish golf outing for DeLay — a trip that DeLay has asked the House Ethics Committee to review after questions were raised about the trip.

He courted other congressmen by letting them use his skyboxes at sports events. A former deputy interior secretary recently had to testify before the Senate Indian Affairs Committee about his relationship with Abramoff. A nominee for a top Justice Department post withdrew after questions were raised about his dealings with Abramoff.

Prosecutors charged that as part of the scheme with Scanlon, Abramoff, who was identified only as "Lobbyist A," recommended to the four tribes that they hire Scanlon to perform grass-roots work in support of their casino gambling efforts.

Scanlon would charge the tribes "prices that incorporated huge profit margins" and then secretly split the profits with Abramoff, the information said. The two concealed the kickback arrangement from the tribes, it charged.

The criminal information also detailed an alleged corruption scheme involving "Representative #1," considered to be Ney.

The information charged that Scanlon and Abramoff "together and separately provided a stream of things of value" to the congressman and members of his staff, including "a lavish trip to Scotland to play golf on world-famous courses," tickets to sporting events and meals at a Washington restaurant Abramoff owned, as well as campaign donations.

The congressman agreed to "perform a series of official acts" that benefited clients of Scanlon and Abramoff, prosecutors charged. These included "agreements to support and pass legislation [and] agreements to place statements in the Congressional Record."

According to the criminal information made public Friday, Scanlon and Abramoff also conspired to influence the congressman to advance the application of one of Abramoff's clients to win a license to provide wireless telephone services to the U.S. House.

It was Ney, chairman of the House Administration Committee, who awarded a licensing agreement worth an estimated $3 million to Foxcom Communication on Nov. 26, 2002. Abramoff's firm later reported that it was a lobbyist for Foxcom, now renamed Mobile Access Networks.

Ney, through a spokesman, has denied allegations that he acted inappropriately in awarding the license to Foxcom. Other bidders for the contract have alleged that the selection process was flawed and politicized.

Federal law and House ethics rules bar members or their staff officials from taking anything of value in return for the performance of official acts.

The House ethics manual states, in capital letters: "Members and staff may never solicit a gift, or accept a gift that is linked to any action they have taken or are being asked to take."

Ney, who has formed a legal defense fund and hired an attorney, acknowledged recently that he had been subpoenaed as part of the Abramoff investigation.

Scanlon is the second person charged in the federal criminal investigation stemming from Abramoff's lobbying activities.

Last month, David Safavian was charged in an indictment with obstructing a federal investigation and making false statements to a federal investigator when he was questioned about a trip he took as Abramoff's guest while serving as a top official in the U.S. General Services Administration.

Safavian resigned his federal post in the White House Office of Management and Budget shortly before being arrested on the charges. He has entered a not-guilty plea.

According to the federal information made public Friday, the four tribes allegedly defrauded by Scanlon and Abramoff were located in Mississippi, Michigan, Texas and Louisiana; and the profits the lobbyists drew from each tribe ranged from a little over $1 million to $12 million.




http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/na...&track=morenews

Friend Judy
QUOTE(Arturo_Vandelay @ Nov 23 2005, 05:04 PM)
I eat less when I cook a long time. Often I don't even taste it until it's finished.
[right][snapback]155165[/snapback][/right]


Yes, that's the general idea. You eat less when you spend more time cooking, and get the same amount of sensory gratification with less calories.

Need a recipe for REAL mashed potatoes? After the work involved, you're allowed to eat as much as you want, since you burned up 100 calories making them.

(And I hope you noted down the recipe for low-cal gravy. It's more low-cal than the dry stuff, and tastes better. Also freezes well, since without the fat it doesn't separate when frozen. I make big potfuls, and freeze it in baggies.)
Arturo_Vandelay
QUOTE(Friend Judy @ Nov 23 2005, 04:10 PM)
Yes, that's the general idea.  You eat less when you spend more time cooking, and get the same amount of sensory gratification with less calories.

Need a recipe for REAL mashed potatoes?  After the work involved, you're allowed to eat as much as you want, since you burned up 100 calories making them.

(And I hope you noted down the recipe for low-cal gravy.  It's more low-cal than the dry stuff, and tastes better.  Also freezes well, since without the fat it doesn't separate when frozen.  I make big potfuls, and freeze it in baggies.)
[right][snapback]155173[/snapback][/right]


I noted it. It's much like one I have in my microwave cookbook, minus the giblets. Funny you mention the baggies since my Mom gave me a couple baggies full of gravy yesterday.

I love Ziplocs. When they were first on the market my parents turned their sailboat over. Lost almost everything, But as they were sitting on the overturned hull waiting for help they did have dry potato chips.
Bee
The same goes for baking, FJ. By the time you've sifted, seperated, measured, cooked, baked, folded, sprinkled, stirred, and decorated the last thing you want to do is eat!

I get more satisfaction out of watching others eat and (usually) enjoy.

smile.gif

Less fattening, too. laugh.gif

As for potatoes, baked is the way to go! The skins are the best.
Repub_Bub
QUOTE(Friend Judy @ Nov 23 2005, 11:05 PM)
Actually, for a yummy potato experience, try simply quartering red potatoes, tossing them in olive oil with crushed garlic and rosemary, then roast them uncovered in a pan for 25 minutes.
[right][snapback]155166[/snapback][/right]

You forgot the onions...ya gotta have onions.
Bart Katz
QUOTE(SherryB @ Nov 23 2005, 05:08 PM)
The investigations should all come to a head in time for the '06 elections.  smile.gif

  The money laundering charges of DeLay.

  The CIA leak investigation.

  But by far the most free ranging, the Abramoff investigation.

Lobbyist Charged in Fraud Inquiry

Michael Scanlon, once an aide to Tom DeLay, is expected to cooperate with prosecutors in the investigation of former partner Jack Abramoff.

By Chuck Neubauer and Walter F. Roche Jr., Times Staff Writers
WASHINGTON — A federal investigation of corrupt lobbying practices on Capitol Hill intensified Friday as a former business associate of lobbyist Jack Abramoff signaled that he would plead guilty to a charge that the two conspired to defraud four Indian tribes out of millions of dollars and to improperly influence a member of Congress.

The plea deal, which is expected to be formalized early next week and includes Michael Scanlon's promise to cooperate with federal prosecutors, marks a major development in a widening probe of Abramoff that has shaken Congress.

In an eight-page criminal information filed in U.S. District Court, federal prosecutors charged that Scanlon, 35, worked with Abramoff to extract $52.9 million in fees from the Indian tribes under false pretenses. The two then secretly shared nearly $40 million in profits, prosecutors charged.

The criminal information, a form of criminal charge that is usually a prelude to a plea agreement, also said that Scanlon and Abramoff illegally conspired to influence a member of Congress. The member of Congress is identified in the information only as "Representative #1," but details of the charges described specific actions known to have been taken by U.S. Rep. Bob Ney (R-Ohio).

Ney spokesman Brian J. Walsh said the congressman would "fully cooperate in the investigation of the Abramoff matter. He has not been told that he is the target of any investigation, and there would be no grounds to do so."

Ney has repeatedly denied any wrongdoing.

Scanlon's cooperation could help break open the criminal investigation into Abramoff and his dealings with members of Congress and the administration. His insider's knowledge could be invaluable in developing criminal cases.

Scanlon was a top aide and communications director to Rep. Tom DeLay (R-Texas) when DeLay was House majority whip. Scanlon left the congressional payroll in late 1999, and later teamed up with Abramoff, who was once one of the most influential lobbyists in Washington. Scanlon faces a single charge of conspiracy.

In a statement, Scanlon's attorney, Stephen Braga, said that at a court hearing Monday, "Mr. Scanlon and the Department of Justice will present a proposed plea agreement to the court to resolve the charge contained in the information."

Abramoff, who was not charged in the documents made public Friday, declined to comment through a spokesman.

In August, Abramoff was indicted by a federal grand jury in Florida on six counts of fraud and conspiracy relating to his role in the purchase of a fleet of gambling boats. He has pleaded not guilty.

The Abramoff investigation has caused widespread worry in Congress because the onetime lobbyist maintained broad connections among lawmakers.

Abramoff arranged for a Scottish golf outing for DeLay — a trip that DeLay has asked the House Ethics Committee to review after questions were raised about the trip.

He courted other congressmen by letting them use his skyboxes at sports events. A former deputy interior secretary recently had to testify before the Senate Indian Affairs Committee about his relationship with Abramoff. A nominee for a top Justice Department post withdrew after questions were raised about his dealings with Abramoff.

Prosecutors charged that as part of the scheme with Scanlon, Abramoff, who was identified only as "Lobbyist A," recommended to the four tribes that they hire Scanlon to perform grass-roots work in support of their casino gambling efforts.

Scanlon would charge the tribes "prices that incorporated huge profit margins" and then secretly split the profits with Abramoff, the information said. The two concealed the kickback arrangement from the tribes, it charged.

The criminal information also detailed an alleged corruption scheme involving "Representative #1," considered to be Ney.

The information charged that Scanlon and Abramoff "together and separately provided a stream of things of value" to the congressman and members of his staff, including "a lavish trip to Scotland to play golf on world-famous courses," tickets to sporting events and meals at a Washington restaurant Abramoff owned, as well as campaign donations.

The congressman agreed to "perform a series of official acts" that benefited clients of Scanlon and Abramoff, prosecutors charged. These included "agreements to support and pass legislation [and] agreements to place statements in the Congressional Record."

According to the criminal information made public Friday, Scanlon and Abramoff also conspired to influence the congressman to advance the application of one of Abramoff's clients to win a license to provide wireless telephone services to the U.S. House.

It was Ney, chairman of the House Administration Committee, who awarded a licensing agreement worth an estimated $3 million to Foxcom Communication on Nov. 26, 2002. Abramoff's firm later reported that it was a lobbyist for Foxcom, now renamed Mobile Access Networks.

Ney, through a spokesman, has denied allegations that he acted inappropriately in awarding the license to Foxcom. Other bidders for the contract have alleged that the selection process was flawed and politicized.

Federal law and House ethics rules bar members or their staff officials from taking anything of value in return for the performance of official acts.

The House ethics manual states, in capital letters: "Members and staff may never solicit a gift, or accept a gift that is linked to any action they have taken or are being asked to take."

Ney, who has formed a legal defense fund and hired an attorney, acknowledged recently that he had been subpoenaed as part of the Abramoff investigation.

Scanlon is the second person charged in the federal criminal investigation stemming from Abramoff's lobbying activities.

Last month, David Safavian was charged in an indictment with obstructing a federal investigation and making false statements to a federal investigator when he was questioned about a trip he took as Abramoff's guest while serving as a top official in the U.S. General Services Administration.

Safavian resigned his federal post in the White House Office of Management and Budget shortly before being arrested on the charges. He has entered a not-guilty plea.

According to the federal information made public Friday, the four tribes allegedly defrauded by Scanlon and Abramoff were located in Mississippi, Michigan, Texas and Louisiana; and the profits the lobbyists drew from each tribe ranged from a little over $1 million to $12 million.


http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/na...&track=morenews
[right][snapback]155169[/snapback][/right]


Why interrupt a nice tater discussion with this crap?
Bart Katz
QUOTE(Repub_Bub @ Nov 23 2005, 07:11 PM)
You forgot the onions...ya gotta have onions.
[right][snapback]155213[/snapback][/right]


All that garlic and onions, and end up smelling like Billy Goat Fillson.
judy
QUOTE(Bart Katz @ Nov 23 2005, 11:28 PM)
All that garlic and onions, and end up smelling like Billy Goat Fillson.
[right][snapback]155259[/snapback][/right]


Don't knock it...garlic and onions are great immune system boosters. Perhaps they keep germ laden people away?????? rolleyes.gif
judy
user posted image
Arturo_Vandelay
Raise the gas tax, that'll bring down prices.
judy
QUOTE(Arturo_Vandelay @ Nov 24 2005, 12:55 PM)
Raise the gas tax, that'll bring down prices.
[right][snapback]155580[/snapback][/right]


She could lower the price of her new book that she is hawking...
Arturo_Vandelay
QUOTE(judy @ Nov 24 2005, 10:05 AM)
She could lower the price of her new book that she is hawking...
[right][snapback]155583[/snapback][/right]


Please no.

More people might buy it. dry.gif
Friend Judy
QUOTE(Repub_Bub @ Nov 23 2005, 07:11 PM)
You forgot the onions...ya gotta have onions.
[right][snapback]155213[/snapback][/right]


No no non, ma cherie!

The onion you cut a criss-cross pattern in, soak in water, then deep fry in one piece to create a homemade "blooming onion"!
Repub_Bub
QUOTE(Friend Judy @ Nov 24 2005, 06:41 PM)
No no non, ma cherie!

The onion you cut a criss-cross pattern in, soak in water, then deep fry in one piece to create a homemade "blooming onion"!
[right][snapback]155622[/snapback][/right]

No chance, lady.....

Olive oil, rosemary, salt, pepper, garlic, onions and red new potatoes.....play with the presentation and it will fit almost anywhere.
Friend Judy
It really IS one of the most basic and most delicious ways to cook potatoes, isn't it? Easy as easy can be, and goes with nearly anything.

I'm a great fan of roasted whatever for entertaining. You can get up Saturday morning, put a hunk of venison or lamb or a chicken or a turkey to marinate (takes 10 minutes to start), then just shove it into the oven and do nothing till it's done. And then everyone says "you must have cooked all day, this is so good!"

Yeah, I "cooked all day", ROFL. Started with 10 minutes in morning, then 2 or 3 2 or 3 minute turnings of the marinade, then 5 minutes of putting it in a roasting pan, then I took it out and let it stand for 10 minutes. But yes, technically, I "cooked all day" even though I really only invested 40 minutes of labor spread over 10 hours.

smile.gif
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2009 Invision Power Services, Inc.