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davis¹³
QUOTE
See? you are assuming that Bart is the type of guy that listens to televangelists.


No I am not. I am saying the Republican politicians are acting like televangelists, suckering in folks with tallk of god on one hand, pretending to be "moral" god fearing Christians, then turning around and proving themselves to be otherwise.

But for some strange, twisted reason none of their unethical or illegal behavior matters or makes the slightest difference to their so called "moral American" constituents. It's like those pitiful Jim Bakker followers who held on to the last, insisting he wasn't a worthless manipulative thief.

Moral Americans?

I suppose that depends just how honest and actually, REALLY moral you are. Not some punk assed part time BS "situational ethics" either.
Bart Katz
QUOTE(davis¹³ @ Dec 13 2004, 11:43 PM)
No I am not. I am saying the Republican politicians are acting like televangelists, suckering in folks with tallk of god on one hand, pretending to be "moral" god fearing Christians, then turning around and proving themselves to be otherwise.

But for some strange, twisted reason none of their unethical or illegal behavior matters or makes the slightest difference to their so called "moral American" constituents. It's like those pitiful Jim Bakker followers who held on to the last, insisting he wasn't a worthless manipulative thief.

Moral Americans?

I suppose that depends just how honest and actually, REALLY moral you are. Not some punk assed part time BS "situational ethics" either.
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You, sir are a fuckin idiot for always jumping from "moral American people" to the politicians, usually the ones on the side oppisite yours. That just doesn't cut it anymore.
Human Ills
QUOTE(davis¹³ @ Dec 13 2004, 09:43 PM)
No I am not. I am saying the Republican politicians are acting like televangelists, suckering in folks with tallk of god on one hand, pretending to be "moral" god fearing Christians, then turning around and proving themselves to be otherwise.
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So you're calling them hypocrates? Big deal. There is plenty of hypocracy to go around. Why do you suppose Arturo is so fond of making little remarks about various rich democrats?
Human Ills
QUOTE(Bart Katz @ Dec 13 2004, 09:45 PM)
You, sir are a fuckin idiot for always jumping from "moral American people" to the politicians, usually the ones on the side oppisite yours.  That just doesn't cut it anymore.
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I'm not about to call you a fuckin idiot davis. But Bart has a point. Not same. Different. More likely than not the folks that voted the way you disapprove held their collective noses and voted the lessor of two evils. You just disagree.
lil bart
QUOTE(Bart Katz @ Dec 13 2004, 09:45 PM)
You, sir are a fuckin idiot for always jumping from "moral American people" to the politicians, usually the ones on the side oppisite yours.  That just doesn't cut it anymore.
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Bart's point, davey-do, if I have it correctly, is (largely to) fergit the political and media screechers & preachers. Ratchet it down a notch.
davis¹³
QUOTE
except the fact that the beast with ten heads (wto) will stage the final battle of humanity on MI soil



it's IN REVELATIONS PEOPLE!!!




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Human Ills
Nice of you to edit out my shiteating grin davis.
Human Ills
FoxNews would be proud.
Human Ills
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Art.
QUOTE(Nomarchy @ Dec 13 2004, 10:41 PM)
How sour are those grapes, there, bartender-boy?
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Not at all. I hold my own against the pride of the sociology team on a regular basis. But
then I've held my own against doctors, lawyers, engineers and generals. I know how my intelligence stacks up and it's good enough I don't need obscure references to specific academic jargon to prove it.
davis¹³
QUOTE
You, sir are a fuckin idiot for always jumping from "moral American people" to the politicians, usually the ones on the side oppisite yours. That just doesn't cut it anymore.


I don't have a side. You want to claim the "moral" label?


THEN ACT LIKE IT.


You want to excuse the criminal behavior? Go for it. Make any god damned fucking excuse you want.

Just don't act morally superior than anyone asshole, because YOU ARE NOT.

And I for one don't have to play your little ignore game"oooh, ooh, can't insult the faith based, can't call their leaders what they really are, a bunch of greedy corksoakers who are out for themeselves" I refuse to play that politically correct bullshit game when it comes to so-called Christian politicians.

It just doesn't cut it anymore.

CLEAR ENOUGH?

Sorry lil bart, can't do it. There's a war going on in our country for the US's credibility and honor and those guys are the main problem. I will never surrender.

However, I will go to bed... after I see the meteor shower.
davis¹³
QUOTE
Nice of you to edit out my shiteating grin davis.


sorry buddy, for some reason the smileys don't paste for me. I thought they had before...but who knows?

Good night all.
Nomarchy
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Bart Katz
QUOTE(davis¹³ @ Dec 14 2004, 12:02 AM)
I don't have a side. You want to claim the "moral" label?


THEN ACT LIKE IT.


You want to excuse the criminal behavior? Go for it. Make any god damned fucking excuse you want.

Just don't act morally superior than anyone asshole, because YOU ARE NOT.

And I for one don't have to play your little ignore game"oooh, ooh, can't insult the faith based, can't call their leaders what they really are, a bunch of greedy corksoakers who are out for themeselves"  I refuse to play that politically correct bullshit game when it comes to so-called Christian politicians.

It just doesn't cut it anymore.

CLEAR ENOUGH?

Sorry lil bart, can't do it. There's a war going on in our country for the US's credibility and honor and those guys are the main problem. I will never surrender.

However, I will go to bed... after I see the meteor shower.
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Listen up pal. You want to start rants, go ahead on. But don't use my honest and earnest posts and skew them your way for a platform. Use your own fucking platform and rant on.
lil bart
QUOTE(davis¹³ @ Dec 13 2004, 10:04 PM)
sorry buddy, for some reason the smileys don't paste for me. I thought they had before...but who knows?

Good night all.
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Night, davey-do. Hasta manana.
Nomarchy
QUOTE(davis¹³ @ Dec 13 2004, 11:02 PM)
I don't have a side. You want to claim the "moral" label?


THEN ACT LIKE IT.


You want to excuse the criminal behavior? Go for it. Make any god damned fucking excuse you want.

Just don't act morally superior than anyone asshole, because YOU ARE NOT.

And I for one don't have to play your little ignore game"oooh, ooh, can't insult the faith based, can't call their leaders what they really are, a bunch of greedy corksoakers who are out for themeselves"  I refuse to play that politically correct bullshit game when it comes to so-called Christian politicians.

It just doesn't cut it anymore.

CLEAR ENOUGH?

Sorry lil bart, can't do it. There's a war going on in our country for the US's credibility and honor and those guys are the main problem. I will never surrender.

However, I will go to bed... after I see the meteor shower.
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Goodnight, davis.

From the resident
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Bart Katz
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Nomarchy
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Nomarchy
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Bart Katz
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Bart Katz
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lil bart
QUOTE(Bart Katz @ Dec 13 2004, 10:39 PM)
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We been havin' "wars" for awhile. sad.gif

To sleep ... perchance! to eat a Christmas treat. smile.gif
Nomarchy
Oh good, the fascists have gone to sleep.
Nomarchy
QUOTE
When contemplating war, beware of babies in incubators

More than 10 years later, I can still recall my brother Sean's face. It was bright red. Furious. Not one given to fits of temper, Sean was in an uproar. He was a father, and he had just heard that Iraqi soldiers had taken scores of babies out of incubators in Kuwait City and left them to die. The Iraqis had shipped the incubators back to Baghdad. A pacifist by nature, my brother was not in a peaceful mood that day. "We've got to go and get Saddam Hussein. Now," he said passionately.
I completely understood his feelings. Although I had no family of my own then, who could countenance such brutality? The news of the slaughter had come at a key moment in the deliberations about whether the US would invade Iraq. Those who watched the non-stop debates on TV saw that many of those who had previously wavered on the issue had been turned into warriors by this shocking incident.

Too bad it never happened. The babies in the incubator story is a classic example of how easy it is for the public and legislators to be mislead during moments of high tension. It's also a vivid example of how the media can be manipulated if we do not keep our guards up.

The invented story eventually broke apart and was exposed. (I first saw it reported in December of 1992 on CBC-TV's Fifth Estate – Canada's "60 Minutes" – in a program called "Selling the War." The show later won an international Emmy.) But it's been 10 years since it happened, and we again find ourselves facing dramatic decisions about war. It is instructive to look back at what happened, in order that we do not find ourselves deceived again, by either side in the issue.

Iraq invaded Kuwait in August of 1990. As the BBC reported: "The country's ruler, Sheik Jaber al-Ahmed al-Sabah, fled into exile in his armour plated Mercedes, across the desert to neighbouring Saudi Arabia."

The Kuwait government had to find a way to "sell the war" to the American public, who were interested, but not deeply involved. So under the auspices of a group called Citizen for a Free Kuwait, which was really the Kuwait government in exile (the group received almost $12 million from the Kuwaiti government, and only $17,000 from others, according to author John R. MacArthur) the American PR firm Hill & Knowlton was hired for $10.7 million to devise a campaign to win American support for the war. Craig Fuller, the firm's president and COO, had been then-President George Bush's chief of staff when the senior Bush has served as vice president under Ronald Reagan. The move made a lot of sense – after all, access to power is everything in Washington and the Hill & Knowlton people had lots of that.

It's wasn't an easy sell. After all, Kuwait was hardly a "freedom-loving land." Only a few weeks before the invasion, Amnesty International accused the Kuwaiti government of jailing dozens of dissidents and torturing them without trial. In an effort to spruce up the Kuwait image, the company organized Kuwait Information Day on 20 college campuses, a national day of prayer for Kuwait, distributed thousands of "Free Kuwait" bumper stickers, and other similar traditional PR ventures. But none of it was working very well. American public support remained lukewarm the first two months.

According to MacArthur's book "Second Front," the first mention of babies being removed from incubators appeared in the Sept. 5 edition of the London Daily Telegraph. The paper ran a claim by the exiled Kuwait housing minister that, "babies in the premature unit of one of the hospitals had been removed from their incubators, so that these, too, could be carried off." Two days later, the LA Times carried a Reuter's story that quoted an American (first name only) who said, among other things, that babies were being taken from incubators, although she herself had not seen it happen.

From there it began to pick up steam, as one media unit after another started repeating the story without checking it. Sensing an opening, the Hill & Knowlton people jumped on the story.

The key moment occurred on October 10, when a young woman named Nayirah appeared in front of a congressional committee. She told the committee, "I saw the Iraqi soldiers come into the hospital with guns, and go into the room where 15 babies were in incubators. They took the babies out of the incubators, took the incubators and left the babies on the cold floor to die."

Hill & Knowlton immediately faxed details of her speech to newsrooms across the country, according to CBC's Fifth Estate's documentary. The effect was electric. The babies in incubator stories became a lead item in newspapers, and on radio and TV all over the US.

It is interesting that no one – not the congressmen in the hearing, or any journalist present – bothered to find out the identity of the young woman. She was the daughter of Kuwait's ambassador to the United States, and actually hadn't seen the "atrocities" she described take place. (When later confronted with the lack of evidence for her claims, the young woman said that she hadn't been in the hospital herself, but that a friend who had been there had told her about it.)

Similar unsubstantiated stories appeared at the UN a few weeks later, where a team of "witnesses," coached by Hill&Knowlton, gave "testimony" (although no oath was ever taken) about atrocities in Iraq. It was later learned that the seven witnesses used false names and even identities in one case. In an unprecedented move, the US was allowed to present a video created by Hill & Knowlton to the entire security council.

But no journalist bothered to look into these witnesses' claims. As Susan B. Trento wrote in her book, "The Power House," an in-depth look at Hill & Knowlton, "The diplomats, the congressmen, and the senators wanted something to support their positions. The media wanted visual, interesting stories."

On November 29, 1990, the UN authorized use of "all means necessary" to eject Iraq from Kuwait. On January 12, 1991, Congress authorized the use of force.

The story was later discredited by organizations like Middle East Watch, Amnesty International, and various other groups and media organizations

As Trento comments in her book, whether or not Hill & Knowlton's efforts were effective, or even needed, is open to debate. The US government had already launched a huge campaign to convince the American people to support war against Iraq. But the PR campaign definitely made an impact.

It's a different media world today than the one of 1992. Back then, CNN and the regular broadcast channels, as well as newspapers, were reporting the news. Today, there are many more TV and cable news channels, as well as the Internet, all demanding to be fed 24x7. It would be, in fact, much easier for someone to get a fabricated story circulated even faster. And it would be just as easy for the Iraqis to do it in the Arab world, as it would be for those that oppose them to do it in the West.

In his excellent book on war reporting "The First Casualty (of War is the Truth)," British journalist Phillip Knightly shows how important it is for the media to remain vigilant. While war with Iraq may truly be inevitable, it serves us all well if we make sure the reasons we go are legitimate ones, and not ones cooked up by richly funded public relation firms.



When contemplating war, beware of babies in incubators

The resident fascists will understand . . .
Nomarchy
QUOTE
The word "fascism" has been bandied about for so long all across the spectrum of the left that the word has lost meaning and impact. Hollering "fascist" on the Left has the same utility as barking "liberal" does on the Right - the words are spoken as universal condemnations of all political opponents. Thus, they muddy rather than clarify debate about the philosophies they represent.

Yet we must examine what has happened to politics and society in the United States since January 2001 to see just how much our national discourse is drawing parallel to the fascism that gripped Italy, Germany, Spain, and (yes) the Soviet Union during the 1930's.

In 2001, the American people were awarded, by judicial fiat, a government that in many ways is repeating the same steps that led to World War and, as Churchill put it, "the abyss of a new Dark Age made more sinister, and perhaps more protracted, by the lights of perverted science." If we are to sidestep a new abyss, we must recognize the disturbing similarities between 20th century fascist socio-political behaviors and the thoughts and actions of our current national leaders.

The American Heritage Dictionary defines fascism as "a system of government that exercises a dictatorship of the extreme right, typically through the merging of state and business leadership, together with belligerent nationalism." Sound familiar? Just on its surface, the Bush regime is following the above definition. Witness the parade of corporate CEOs that now populates the president's cabinet and key advisory bodies. Observe how quickly the Bushites snap at the patriotism of anyone - anyone - who challenges their worldview.

Of course there is much more to bother us about Bush and his corporate brethren when it comes to unnerving historical parallels. For instance, both the Nazi and Soviet regimes of the 1930's paid a great deal of attention to the Law. Stalin had a whole new Constitution written in 1936 and proclaimed it the "most democratic in the world." Which it was on the surface. Only in the details did one notice that the people were the State and the State was the Leader, so only Comrade Stalin had the "freedoms" written in the Soviet Constitution. Nevertheless, Soviet life proceeded under the new Constitution to follow the Law as it was written. In Germany, the Nazis co-opted the judiciary before the Reichstag passed laws stripping Jewish citizens of their rights. And Chancellor Hitler was granted "emergency powers" by the democratically-elected Reichstag that he might become the Fuehrer.

In like fashion, the Bush administration is attempting to re-write or re-interpret laws that have afforded our citizens and non-citizens civil rights protection for almost a generation, while moving to stack our courts with judges that will uphold the "new" laws. What separates fascism from more pedestrian forms of dictatorship is its working to make the legal system a tool of state power. Score one point for the Bushites here. They are following the script.

Next among the hallmarks of fascism is the need to have permanent enemies and scapegoats to blame for national misfortunes. In Soviet Russia, we saw an endless parade of fascists, Socialists, Trotskyites, and "reactionaries" used as justification for massive military expenditures, arrests, executions, and "re-education" camps. Francisco Franco branded as "Communist" any group that fought his hard-right suppression of Spanish democracy. The Nazis raised scapegoating to the ultimate horror in their mass extermination facilities for Jews, gypsies, and anyone else blamed for debasing the German kultur.

Now we have the Bushites doing well at defining Mr. Sadaam as the enemy, although Iraqis have thus far done nothing since the 1991 Gulf War to provoke the U.S. When Sadaam is no longer credible as the enemy, another will take his place, as he took the place of Osama Bin Laden. The official scapegoats for American fascists are homosexuals, judging from the endless paranoiac screeds against their "lifestyle" that fuel the right-wing press. The Bushites tread delicately here, but send their troops the message that "special rights" will not be tolerated for gay Americans--therefore persecution and discrimination against them is really okay, but don't quote us. Smirk.

Which brings us to the mass media. The Nazis were pioneers in using a linkage of popular broadcasting and captive print media to spread their twisted gospel. We still acknowledge Josef Goebbels for his observation that a lie repeated often enough becomes the truth. And so it is today, with Fox news, the Washington Times, The Standard, and other right-wing media outlets spewing false stories and twisted statistics so that "average" tax cut amounts apply to everyone, and the University of Michigan operates a "quota" admission system. The less ideologically tilted media take the lead from these distorters. The Bushites, aided by the Republican National Committee, are modern masters of Dr. Goebbels' dictum. In order to find the facts about what is happening in our country, we increasingly must turn to the BBC and Canadian news sources.

Churchill's chilling remark about "perverted science" referred to Nazi attempts to prove that "superhuman" and "subhuman" races existed. Nazi scientists squandered millions of marks measuring foreheads and comparing eye shapes in these efforts. Stalin's scientists attempted, at great human cost, to create a "Soviet" human model using the bogus theory that acquired physical characteristics can be passed along genetically.

Likewise, the Bushites trot forth "scientists" who dispute global warming despite overwhelming evidence. Administration representatives to the United Nations scoff at human nature and proclaim that worldwide sexual abstinence will curtail both population growth and the spread of AIDS. Again, willful ignorance of scientific truths is a prime symptom that fascism is at work in a society.

Then there is the well-known fascist preoccupation with the use of military force. The Nazi leaders could hardly wait to blood their storm troops in a real war. Hitler was "relieved" that the Poles decided to fight him instead of capitulating to German demands. Mussolini sent his forces gleefully to war against Ethiopia for no better reason than wanting to beat up a sixth-rate military power. The obvious allusions to the behavior of our current regime in Washington would be funny if the expected outcome of their policy was not so tragic.

Twentieth-century fascism was built on "mass movements" that provided electoral muscle for the political parties that advanced the ideology. The Nazis had their Brownshirts, the Italians the Blackshirts, the Spanish the Falange, and the Soviets the Red Guards. For American fascism, the mass movement role has fallen to the Christian fundamentalists, who may be counted on to turn out loyally in elections, infiltrate local governments, undermine public education, and persecute the chosen scapegoats. In a perverse twist of history, the fundamentalist American fascist base has inoculated itself against charges of anti-semitism by unqualified support for Israel's hard-line policy towards Palestinians. Thus, organizations such as the Anti-Defamation League, which served for over 50 years as watchdogs against fascism in our country, are suddenly taking sides with the fundamentalists.

A final, somewhat depressing observation about fascism: to fascist leaders, the masses of people they lead are disposable assets. That offers a possible explanation why the Bush administration does not show much concern for the jobless or those whose retirements are threatened by collapsed 401Ks. It also explains Donald Rumsfeld's blithely calling Vietnam veterans "what was left" after the best and brightest found a way to dodge military service.

Of course, under fascism some people do matter. In Nazi Germany, Party Leaders and Industrialists were nicknamed "the Golden Pheasants" for their lavish uniforms and lifestyles. Likewise, right-wing American corporate leaders are doing just fine, and will conceivably do even better, given Bush tax policy. Meanwhile, those who perform the corporations' labor will receive less and less as their income stagnates.

So this is what lies before us--those of us who grew up in a country that fought and defeated foreign fascism. Democracy triumphed over a dark age. Many of us thought fascism was gone forever. Now it is alive again, and in our own land. Again, we must turn to the words of Churchill:

"We have before us an ordeal of the most grievous kind. We have before us many, many long months of struggle and of suffering. You ask, what is our policy? I can say: It is to wage war, by sea, land and air, with all our might and with all the strength that God can give us; to wage war against a monstrous tyranny, never surpassed in the dark, lamentable catalogue of human crime. That is our policy. You ask, what is our aim? I can answer in one word: It is victory, victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory, however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival."

Liberals must wage war against American fascism on the airwaves, in the print media, on the campuses, in the legislatures, the courts, the Congress, and on the streets. The war is one of ideas, not of guns and bombs. The truth is our weapon, but the greatest weapon of mass destruction is our silence.


American Fascism
Nomarchy
QUOTE
Is America Becoming Fascist?
The similarities between American fascism and particularly the National Socialist precedent, both historical and theoretical, are remarkable. Fascism is home, it is here to stay, and it better be countered with all the intellectual resources at our disposal.


by Anis Shivani
04/27/03

Since mainstream left-liberal media do not seriously ask this question, the analysis of what has gone wrong and where we are heading has been mostly off-base. Investigation of the kinds of under-handed, criminal tactics fascist regimes undertake to legitimize their agenda and accelerate the rate of change in their favor is dismissed as indulging in "conspiracy theory." Liberals insist that this regime must be treated under the rules of "politics as usual. Liberals are quick to note certain obvious dissimilarities with previous variants of fascism and say that what is happening in America is not fascist. It took German justice minister Herta Daeubler-Gmelin to make the comparison explicit (under present American rules of political discourse, she has been duly sacked from her cabinet post); but at the liberal New York Times or The Nation, American writers dare not speak the truth.

The blinkered assertion that we are immune to the virus ignores degrees of convergence and distinction based on the individual patient's history. The Times and other liberal voices have been obsessed over the last year with the rise of minority fascist parties in the Netherlands, France, and other European countries. They have questioned the tastefulness of new books and movies about Hitler, and again demonized such icons of Nazism as Leni Riefenstahl. Is this perhaps a displacement of American anxiety onto the safer European scene, liberal intellectuals here not wanting to confront the troubling truth? The pace of events in the last year has been almost as blindingly fast as it was after Hitler's Machtergreifung and the consolidation of fascist power in 1933. Speed stuns and silences.

Max Frankel, former editor of the Times, quotes from biographer Joachim Fest in his review of Speer: The Final Verdict: " . . .how easily, given appropriate conditions, people will allow themselves to be mobilized into violence, abandoning the humanitarian traditions they have built up over centuries to protect themselves from each other," and that a "primal being" such as Hitler "will always crop up again." Is Frankel really redirecting his anxiety about the primal being that has arisen in America? When Frankel says that "Speer far more than Hitler [because the former came from a culturally refined background] makes us realize how fragile these precautions are, and how the ground on which we all stand is always threatened," is this an oblique reference to the ground shifting from under us?

The Iraqi adventure, which is only the first step in a more ambitious militarist agenda, has been opposed by the most conservative warmongers of past administrations. If the test of any theory is its predictive capacity, Bush's extreme risk-taking is better explained by the fascist model. Purely economic motives are a large part of the story, but there is a deeper derivation that exceeds such mundane rationales. Several of the apparent contradictions in Bush's governance make perfect sense if the fascist prism is applied, but not with the normal perspective.

To pose the question doesn't mean that this is a completed project; at any point, anything can happen to shift the course of history in a different direction. Yet after repeated and open corruption of the normal electoral process, several declarations of world war (including in three major addresses, and now the National Security Strategy document), adventurous and unprecedented military doctrines, suspension of much of the Bill of Rights, and clear signals that a declaration of emergency to crush remaining dissent is on the way, surely it is time to analyze the situation differently.

Absent that perspicacity, false diagnoses and prescriptions will continue. It is fine to be concerned about tyrannous Muslim regimes, and surely they need to set their own house in order, but not now, not in this context, and not under the auspices of the American fascist regime. Liberals don't yet realize, or fail to admit, that they may have been condemned to irrelevance for quite some time; the death blow against even mild welfare statism might already have been struck.

The similarities between American fascism and particularly the National Socialist precedent, both historical and theoretical, are remarkable. Fascism is home, it is here to stay, and it better be countered with all the intellectual resources at our disposal.

American fascism is tapping into the perennial complaint against liberalism: that it doesn't provide an authentic sense of belonging to the majority of people. And that is a criticism difficult to dismiss out of hand. As the language of liberalism has become flat and predictable, some Americans have become more ready to accept an alternative, no matter how ridiculous, as long as it sounds vigorous and muscular.

America today is seeking a return to some form of vitalism, some organic, volkisch order that will "unite" the blue and red states in an eternal Volkgemeinschaft; is in a state of perpetual war and militaristic aggression targeting all potential counters to hegemony; has been coercing and blackmailing its own victims and oppressed (justified by anti-political correctness rhetoric) to return to a mythical national consensus; has introduced surveillance technology to demolish the private sphere to an extent unimaginable in the recent past; and fetishizes technology as the futuristic solution to age-old ills of alienation and mistrust.

And we are right in the mainstream of the Western philosophical and political tradition in this subtle (overnight?) transformation. Liberal democracy was replaced by Mussolini by these two Holy Trinities: Believe, Obey, Fight, and Order, Authority, Justice. These slogans seem to replace every liberal system sooner or later. Italian propagandistic slogans included: War is to man as childbirth is to woman, and Better to live one day as a lion than a hundred years as a sheep. Sooner or later, the mob is persuaded that fascism best addresses its unfulfilled spiritual and psychological needs. Sooner or later there is a Hitler, and even if there isn't a leader as charismatic as him, there is an anti-modernity counter-revolution.

The enlightenment everywhere has contained the seeds of its own destruction. Fascism merely borrows from the enlightenment's credo that violence may sometimes be necessary to achieve valid political ends, and that human reason alone can lead humanity to utopia. Is Nazism an absolute aberration? Is America totally immune to fascism? Then we might as well discredit Rousseau's "general will," Hegel's historical spirit, Goethe and Schelling's romanticization of nature and genius, Darwin's natural selection, and Nietzsche's superman. When all is said and done, a Kant or Mill is never a match for a Nietzsche or Sorel. Industrial malaise (now post-industrial disorder), evaded by the dead-ends and delusions of liberalism, leads only to a romantic revolution, which is fine as long as it is in the hands of Byron, Keats, Carlyle, Ruskin and Arnold, but becomes eventually converted to a propaganda-saturated Third Way. Since liberalism doesn't take up the challenge, fascism steps in to say that it offers an answer to centrifugal difference and lack of common purpose, and that it will dare to link industrial prosperity with communal goals.

How great a deviation from the roots of the enlightenment, the foundations of its self-justification, is the Manichean demonization of enemies, aliens, impure races, and barbaric others? America today wants to be communal and virile; it seeks to overcome what is presented by propagandists as the unreasonable demands for affirmative action and reparations by minorities and women; it wants to revalorize nation and region and race to take control of the future; it seeks to remold the nation through propaganda and charismatic leadership, into overcoming the social divisiveness of capitalism and democracy.

We have our own nationalist myths that our brand of fascism taps right into. In that sense, America is not exceptional. In the near future, America can be expected to embark on a more radical search to define who is not part of the natural order: exclusion, deportation, and eventually extermination, might again become the order of things. Of course, we can notice obvious differences from the German nationalist tradition: but that is precisely the task of scholars to delineate, rather than pretend that fascism occurred only in Italy and Germany and satellite states in the first half of the century, and occurs today only in Europe in minor movements that have no chance of gaining political supremacy.

It is wrong to pretend that fascism takes hold only in the midst of extreme economic depression or political chaos. (A perception of crisis or instability is indispensable to realizing fascism, however.) Fascism can emerge when things are not all that bad economically, politically, and culturally. The surprise about Weimar Germany is how well the political system was at times working, with proportional representation (almost an ideal of strong democracy theorists) providing political expression for a full range of ideologies. Germany was economically strong, an industrial powerhouse, despite having had to overcome massive disabilities imposed by the Versailles Treaty. In the early thirties, Hitler's rise was facilitated by massive unemployment (perhaps forty percent of Germans were unemployed), but this was a phenomenon throughout the Western world.

The key point to note is that at many junctures along the way, it was possible that Hitler's rise might never have happened. And that the elites accepted Hitler as the best possible option. All this makes Hitler and Nazism unexceptional. The basic paradigm remains more or less intact: we only have to account for variations in the American model. Capitalism today is different, so are the postmodern means of propaganda, and so are the technological tools of suppression. Besides, American foundational myths vary from European ones, and the romanticism propounded by Goethe, Schelling, Wagner and Nietzsche contrasts with a different kind of holistic urge in America. But that is only a matter of variation, not direct opposition. Liberals who say that demographics work against a Republican majority in the early twenty-first century do have a point; but fascism can occur precisely at that moment of truth, when the course of political history can definitely tend to one direction or another. A mere push can set things on a whole different course, regardless of underlying cultural or demographic trends. Nazism never had the support of the majority of Germans; at best about a third fully supported it. About a third of Americans today are certifiably fascist; another twenty percent or so can be swayed around with smart propaganda to particular causes. So the existence of liberal institutions is not necessarily inconsistent with fascism's political dominance.

With all of Germany's cultural strength, brutality won out; the same analysis can apply to America. Hitler never won clear majorities; yet once he was in power, he crushed all dissent. Consider the parallels to the fateful election of 2000. Hitler's ascent to power was facilitated by the political elites; again, note the similarities to the last two years. Hitler took advantage of the Reichstag fire to totally change the shape of German institutions and culture; think of 9/11 as a close parallel. Hitler was careful to give the impression of always operating under legal cover, even for the most massive offenses against humanity; note again the similarity of a pseudo-legal shield for the actions of the American fascists. One can go on and on in this vein.

If we look at Stanley Payne's classical general theory of fascism, we are struck by the increasing similarities with the American model:

A. The Fascist Negations
Anti-liberalism
Anti-communism
Anti-conservatism (though with the understanding that fascist groups . . .[are] more willing to undertake temporary alliances with groups from any other sector, most commonly the right).
B. Ideology and Goals
Creation of a new nationalist authoritarian state.
Organization of some new kind of regulated, multi-class, integrated national economic structure.
The goal of empire.
Specific espousal of an idealist, voluntarist creed.
C. Style and Organization
Emphasis on aesthetic structure . . .stressing romantic and mystical aspects.
Attempted mass mobilization with militarization of political relationships and style and the goal of a mass party militia.
Positive evaluation and use of . . .violence.
Extreme stress on the masculine principle.
Exaltation of youth.
Specific tendency toward an authoritarian, charismatic, personal style of command.
American fascism denies affiliation with liberalism, communism, and conservatism. The first two denials are obvious; the third requires a little analysis, but fascism is not conservatism and it takes issue with conservatism's anti-revolutionary stance. Conservatism's libertarian strand, an American staple (think of the recent protestations of Dick Armey, the departing Bob Barr, and the Cato Institute against some of the grossest violations of civil liberties), would not agree with fascism's "nationalist authoritarian state." Reaganite anti-government rhetoric might well have been a precursor to fascism, but Hayekian free market and deregulationist ideology cannot be labeled fascism.
Continuing to look at Payne's list, we note that the goal of "empire," that much proscribed word in official American vocabulary, has found open acceptance over the last year among the fascist vanguard. Voluntarism has been elevated to iconic status in the current American manifestation of fascism. It takes a bit more effort to notice American fascism's "emphasis on aesthetic structure. . .stressing romantic and mystical aspects," but reflection suggests many innovative stylistic emphases. The mass party militia, especially large bands of organized, militarized youth, seems to be missing ­ for now. Violence is glorified for its own sake. The masculine principle has been elevated as the basis of policy-making. Command is authoritarian, charismatic, and personal. It is true that a charismatic leader like Hitler is missing from the scene; but one would have to ask if this is not a redundancy in the American historical context. Perhaps we are a society mobilized by very small degrees of charisma, unlike more informed, impassioned, ideologically committed electorates.

Roger Griffin holds that fascism consists of a series of myths: fascism is anti-liberal, anti-conservative, anti-rational, charismatic, socialist, totalitarian, racist and eclectic. If one wishes to argue that American fascism is by no means socialist, one ought to take a deeper look at National Socialism's conception of socialism. In a sense, America is a socialist society, to the extent that the government is the main driving force behind technology, innovation, and science: the military-industrial-academic complex. National Socialism was comforting to the right-wing capitalists because they believed that socialism was a convenient fiction for the ideology. Nevertheless, fascism's vitalism and holism militate against any facile interpretations of what socialism means. Fascism is eclectic and ready to abandon economic principle for what it perceives as the greater good of the nation. As Sternhell has described it for Germany, fascism in the American synthesis is a cultural rebellion, a revolutionary ideology; totalitarianism is of its very essence. There are more similarities than immediately apparent between Marxism as it was put into practice by the twentieth century communist states, and "socialist" ideology put into practice by the various fascist states.

Ian Kershaw has evaluated the similarities between Italian and German fascism:

Extreme chauvinistic nationalism with pronounced imperialistic expansionist tendencies;
an anti-socialist, anti-Marxist thrust aimed at the destruction of working class organizations and their Marxist political philosophy;
the basis in a mass party drawing from all sectors of society, though with pronounced support in the middle class and proving attractive to the peasantry and to various uprooted or highly unstable sectors of the population;
fixation on a charismatic, plebiscitary, legitimized leader;
. extreme intolerance towards all oppositional and presumed oppositional groups, expressed through vicious terror, open violence and ruthless repression;
. glorification of militarism and war, heightened by the backlash to the comprehensive socio-political crisis in Europe arising from the First World War;
. dependence upon an "alliance" with existing elites, industrial, agrarian, military and bureaucratic, for their political breakthrough;
. and, at least an initial function, despite a populist-revolutionary anti-establishment rhetoric, in the stabilization or restoration of social order and capitalist structures.
Viewed in this perspective, in only the last few months America has advanced tremendously from emerging to realized fascism. Its imperialist and expansionist tendencies need to be couched less and less in Wilsonian idealist terms for mass acceptance. Unions can still be considered an oppositional, populist force, but working class cohesion has nearly been destroyed. Still, it needs to be said that instead of fascism appealing across class and geographical lines, the country remains divided between the liberal (urban, coastal) and proto-fascist (rural, Southern) factions. Also, the plebiscitary leader has not yet fully emerged. Oppositional groups are often self-silencing, but the most of the ruling establishment continues to practice a mild form of liberalism, and hopes that if things get too out of hand it can mobilize public opinion against brutal suppression. Although not all elites have yet been co-opted, think of Dershowitz's advocacy of torture and Larry Summers's patriotic swing. There is general agreement on militaristic aims. The attempted stabilization of the social order in the form of the culture wars fought in the previous decade is one of the less appreciated manifestations of emerging fascism.
George Mosse describes fascism as viewing itself in a permanent state of war, to mobilize masculine virile energy, enlisting the masses as "foot soldiers of a civic religion." As Mosse points out, fascism seeks a higher form of democracy even as it rejects the customary forms of representative government. Propaganda is pervasive in America; we only need to delineate its descent from the Nazi form. Mosse rejects the notion that fascism ruled through terror; "it was built upon a popular consensus." Fascism is a higher consensus seeking to bring about the "new man" rooted in Christian doctrine. Can there be a better description of the nineties American culture wars instigated by the proto-fascists than the following?:

When fascists spoke of culture, they meant a proper attitude toward life: encompassing the ability to accept a faith, the work ethic, and discipline, but also receptivity to art and the appreciation of the native landscape. The true community was symbolized by factors opposed to materialism, by art and literature, the symbols of the past and the stereotypes of the present. The National Socialist emphasis upon myth, symbol, literature and art is indeed common to all fascism.

Most of this is obvious, except the reference to literature and art; but think of the fetishization of the Great Books and the mythical classical curriculum by Bennett and his like. In thus viewing fascism above all as a cultural movement, the objection might be raised that American fascism lacks a distinctive stylistic expression that iconizes youth and war. Instead, it might be argued that it suffers from callow endorsement by dour old white males, whose cultural appeal is limited in the discredited stylistic forms they employ. To some extent this is true, but one must never underestimate the fertile ground American anti-intellectualism provides for more banal forms of propaganda and cultural terrorism than needed to be deployed by Nazism. (Eminem does electrocute Cheney in his video, but in real life Cheney rules.) American communication technology, as was true of Nazi Germany, has pioneered whole new methods of trivialization of "mass death" and elevation of brutality as a "great experience."

War is both necessary and great, and that is America's continuation of the fascist fascination with revitalization of "basic moral values." Furthermore, the puritanism of American fascism does not necessarily conflict with the Nazi emphasis on style and beauty: Nazism annexed "the pillars of respectability: hard work, self-discipline, and good manners," which explains "the puritanism of National Socialism, its emphasis upon chastity, the family, good manners, and the banishment of women from public life." The analogs to Karl May's widely circulated novels in Weimar and Nazi Germany can probably be found here, as can America's answer to Max Nordau, rebelling against decadence in art and literature, and maintaining that "lack of clarity, inability to uphold moral standards, and absence of self-discipline all sprang from the degeneration of their [artists'] physical organism." Think only of the demonization of Mapplethorpe and others, the emasculation of the NEA, and the continued attack on alleged artistic degeneracy. We must be willing to consider expanded definitions of how romanticism has been incorporated by American fascism.

Liberals might complain that in America there hasn't been a declared revolution, a transformation that asserts itself as such. But as noted above fascism simply takes over the liberals' language of "clarity, decency, and natural laws," as well as its ideals of "tolerance and freedom." That sounds like the sleight-of-hand performed by the fascists here. As Mosse says:

Tolerance. . .was claimed by fascists in antithesis to their supposedly intolerant enemies, while freedom was placed within the community. To be tolerant meant not tolerating those who opposed fascism: individual liberty was possible only within the collectivity. Here once more, concepts that had become part and parcel of established patterns of thought were not rejected (as so many historians have claimed) but instead co-opted - fascism would bring about ideals with which people were comfortable, but only on its own terms.

So to be liberal means to be intolerant, out of sync with the American democratic spirit. That suggestion has taken hold among large numbers of people.

The current American aesthetic appreciation of technology ("smart" bombs) is also of a piece with Hitler's passion. Fascism is not a deviance from popular cultural trends, but only the taming of activism within revived nationalist myths. Mosse holds that fascism didn't diverge from mainstream European culture; it absorbed most of what held great mass appeal. It never decried workers' tastelessness; it accepted these realities. The same principles apply to American fascism.

Umberto Eco, in his essay "Ur-Fascism," identifies fourteen characteristics of "eternal fascism": not all of them have to be present at the same time for a system to be considered fascist, and some of them may even be contradictory: "There was only one Nazism, and we cannot describe the ultra-Catholic Falangism of Franco as Nazism, given that Nazism is fundamentally pagan, polytheistic, and anti-Christian, otherwise it is not Nazism." Eco is intelligent enough to suggest a family of resemblance, overlap, and kinship, and the analyst's task is to note which particular characteristics apply to a system, and understand the reasons for the absence of others, rather than dismiss the fascist categorization if a single feature from a previous fascist variant doesn't apply: "Remove the imperialist dimension from Fascism, and you get Franco or Salazar; remove the colonialist dimension, and you get Balkan Fascism. Add to Italian Fascism a dash of radical anti-Capitalism (which never appealed to Mussolini), and you get Ezra Pound. Add the cult of Celtic mythology and the mysticism of the Grail (completely extraneous to official Fascism), and you get one of the most respected gurus of Fascism, Julius Evola."
It is noteworthy about Eco's matrix that all fourteen of his characteristics of ur-fascism apply to America to some degree: 1. "the cult of tradition" (which may be "syncretic" and able to "tolerate contradictions"); 2. "the rejection of modernism" and "irrationalism"; 3. "the cult of action for action's sake"; 4. "dissent is betrayal"; 5. "fear of difference," or racism; 6. "the appeal to the frustrated middle classes" [this seems to cause the most trouble to American liberals; Eco clarifies, "In our day, in which the old 'proletarians' are becoming petits bourgeois (and the lumpen proletariat has excluded itself from the political arena), Fascism will find its audience in this new majority.]; 7. "obsession with conspiracies," along with xenophobia and nationalism; 8. "the enemy is at once too strong and too weak" [note the simultaneous characterization of Osama bin Laden, Saddam Hussein and no doubt future Islamic "terrorists" as capable of irrevocably harming us and being impotent to really do so]; 9. 'Pacifism is. . .collusion with the enemy," "life is a permanent war," and only a "final solution" can herald an age of peace; 10. "scorn for the weak" imposed by a mass elite; 11. "the cult of death" [American fascists ascribe this characteristic to terrorists, when in fact it is one of their own supreme defining characteristics]; 12. transferring of the "will to power onto sexual questions," or "machismo"; 13. "individuals have no rights," and fascism "has to oppose 'rotten' parliamentary governments"; and 14. "Ur-Fascism uses newspeak."

No doubt, fascism is a descriptor too carelessly thrown around; but Nixon and Reagan, no matter how reprehensible their politics, were not quite fascist. Bush is the most dangerous man in contemporary history: Hitler didn't have access to weapons that could blow up the world, and no American or other leader since World War II with access to such weapons has been as out of control. Perhaps a non-controversial statement may be that the fascist tendency always exists, at the very least latent and dormant. But when more and more of the latency becomes actualized, there comes a point when the nature of the problem has to be redefined. We may already have crossed that point. As Eco notes, "Ur-Fascism can still return in the most innocent of guises. Our duty is to unmask it and to point the finger at each of its new forms ­ every day, in every part of the world." And as Eco reminds us, Roosevelt issued a similar warning.

Since liberals don't understand the magnitude of the crisis global capitalism faces, they don't understand the extent of the desperate, last-ditch effort to find an ideological glue ("terror") to hold together the centrifugal forces in the American population. Part of the confusion is that this is fascism but not really fascism ­ it is only its simulation, although no less horrifying for that reason ­ because all the twentieth-century ideologies (liberalism, conservatism, and socialism) are rapidly dissolving.



Is America Becoming Fascist?

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Nomarchy
QUOTE
"Fascism is full of ironies and contradictions.  On the one hand, it is anti-modern in its glorification of the land, a return to country life, and its fascination with peasant dress or costume.  On the other hand, it is pro-modern in its worship of military technology, favoritism of big business, mass mobilization of people, promotion of commercialized sport, and its surprisingly liberal attitude toward the involvement of women in the movement.  Science and scholarship also take on interesting twists under fascism.  "Hard" sciences like biology and chemistry usually advance significantly, especially in areas such as genetic research.  "Soft" sciences like sociology and psychology usually become usurped into mumbo-jumbo pseudoscientific ideas about a glorified folk culture and reasons for hating the enemy."

    Reflecting on just what these words mean when searching for answers as to why America's once storied Democratic ideals have long been cast aside without much notice from the public, let's begin with two realities that have soured the taste for freedom for too many.  First, this regime created the very fascist sounding "Office of Homeland Security".  This consolidation of existing federal departments of intelligence, law enforcement, immigration and the military (as well as other entities that may have been established without public debate) was accomplished using the USA PATRIOT ACT, a law that became overreaching and anti-American in its fascist controls over the lives of all Americans whether considered a possible terrorist or not just screams "Nazi-inspired". 

    Add to that the moron's own thugs warning the world that the invasions that they began of two sovereign nations, Afghanistan and Iraq, were only the beginning of a so-called "War On Terrorism" that they predicted could go on for years if not generations.  They excluded no nation on Earth from their threats and insults save for the very obedient and lavishly doting government of Tony Blair's Great Britain.  They proclaimed an "Axis of Evil" and issued veiled and some quite overt threats against the governments and peoples of these nations if they didn't immediately bend at the knee before the power of the new fascist regime appointed by the U.S. Supreme Court.

    The regime has used their version of "Super-Patriotism" to issue warnings to Americans that, "They had better watch what they say from now on!" and to control the minimal debate surrounding their grasp for complete control of all media by attacking the patriotism of those who wanted an open and informed debate to be held before any more killing and destruction were committed on innocent civilians by our military in revenge for the attacks of 9/11. 

    The USA PATRIOT ACT ceded nearly every hard won right bestowed on Americans by the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.  The First Amendment's guarantee of freedom of speech was attacked by insinuating that any speech not in conformity with the regime's party line was now considered outright treason (read the USA PATRIOT ACT if you want to lose lots of sleep).  The First Amendment's guarantee of a Free Press was pushed aside through the passage of laws that allowed the merger of massive conservative media corporations that now limit and outright hide the truth from the American people and, instead of informing them of vastly important events that will affect them and their children for generations to come, amuse and distract them with insipid little people eating rats and being covered in various noxious substances in hopes of winning some wasteful amount in prizes and the right to be immediately forgotten by everyone.  As far as the right to petition the government for a redress of grievances, that little effort would more likely find you in some small, dark cell on some forgotten military base than standing as an American exercising your rights.

    The Fourth Amendment, long ago crippled in the insane and long lost "War on Drugs", was further eroded by the many passages in the USA PATRIOT ACT that completely eliminates any legal necessity for any government agency or agent to obtain a court's permission to enter your home or office and allows them to take anything they wish and to leave devices that monitor your conversations both in the rooms as well as on the phones and through your computer.  All of this information can then be shared with any and all other government agencies that wish to learn more about you and your life even if it is only out of some sick form of curiousity.

    The Fifth Amendment protections have been erased, as well, since you can now be arrested and jailed without the inconvenience of a Grand Jury hearing and indictment nor is there any longer a requirement for the government to provide the witnesses to be present when you are tried if the government can, in any manner, simply declare your trial to be "related to terrorist activities or persons."

    The Sixth Amendment's Right to a Speedy Trial is simply now so many empty words.  The government can and has jailed Americans for an unspecified crime and refused to hold a trial or to even charge the American with any crime and can now do so until this same government declares some sort of victory in their eternal war on terrorism.

    The Seventh and Eighth Amendments were negated, once again, long ago in the government's stupid and destructive other war, the one supposedly on drugs.

    So, we now have a government that demands that the people obey the government's sick form of super-patriotism and support their eternal wars against "the enemy" and who have pretty much removed any real sources of truthful and informative media that might provide the people with uncomfortable facts not wrapped up in shows that distract and amuse.

    The dictum that the government becomes fascinated with the country life and costumes is sickly clear whenever the little moron is photographed pretending to work on his "ranch" while wearing cowboy clothes and boots and riding off into the sunset on his trusty horse.  Conversely, as Dr. O'Connor so eloquently points out, "it is pro-modern in its worship of military technology, favoritism of big business, mass mobilization of people, promotion of commercialized sport, and its surprisingly liberal attitude toward the involvement of women in the movement.  Science and scholarship also take on interesting twists under fascism.  "Hard" sciences like biology and chemistry usually advance significantly, especially in areas such as genetic research.  "Soft" sciences like sociology and psychology usually become usurped into mumbo-jumbo pseudoscientific ideas about a glorified folk culture and reasons for hating the enemy."

    Gentle readers, while this regime follows in virtual lock-step the very definitions of Nazi and Fascism, it also can be very clearly defined as being composed of "terrorists" just as easily.  This is why I call them Nazis and this is why I so often proclaim their regime one based on the very basic tenets of Fascism.  Until America stirs from in front of the flickering light from the idiot-inducing box, these animals will continue to soil and degrade everything that was once nearly great about America.  Until America wakes up and demands that our government return to a total policy of defending the freedoms given to us through the Constitution and Bill of Rights instead of slowly eroding and ignoring those freedoms, we will always have the government that the majority deserves.  Sadly, those of us sick unto death of these evil, shameful and corrupt rodents must suffer the same fate as the mindless majority.



Why I Call This Regime "Nazis" & "Fascists"!
Nomarchy
QUOTE
From Jurgen Habermas, Legitimation Crisis, (translated by Thomas McCarthy). Boston: Beacon Press, 1975, pp. 68-75.



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Chapter 6. Theorems of Legitimation Crisis


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The concept of the rationality crisis is modeled after that of the economic crisis. According to that concept, contradictory steering imperatives assert themselves through the purposive-rational actions not of market-participants but of members of the administration; they manifest themselves in contradictions that directly threaten system integration and thus endanger social integration

We have seen that an economic system crisis can be counted on only as long as political disputes (class struggles) maintain and do not change institutional boundary conditions of capitalist production (for example, the Chartist movement and introduction of the normal working day). To the extent that the class relationship has itself been repoliticized and the state has taken over market-replacing as well as market-supplementing tasks (and made possible a "more elastic" form of production of surplus value), class domination can no longer take the anonymous form of the law of value. Instead, it now depends on factual constellations of power whether, and how, production of surplus value can be guaranteed through the public sector, and how the terms of the class compromise look. With this development, crisis tendencies shift, of course, from the economic into the administrative system. Indeed, the self-containment of exchange processes, mediated only through the market, is destroyed. But after the liberal-capitalist spell of commodity production is broken (and all participants have become, more or less, good practitioners of value theory), the unplanned, nature-like development of economic processes can re-establish itself, at least in secondary form, in the political system. The state must preserve for itself a residue of unconsciousness in order that there accrue to it from its planning functions no responsibilities that it cannot honor without overdrawing its accounts. Thus, economic crisis tendencies continue on the plateau of raising, and expending in a purposive-rational way, the requisite fiscal means.

But, if we do not wish to fall back on theorems of economic crisis, governmental activity can find a necessary limit only in available legitimations. As long as motivations remain tied to norms requiring justification, the introduction of legitimate power into the reproduction process means that the "fundamental contradiction" can break out in a questioning, rich in practical consequences, of the norms that still underlie administrative action. And such questioning will break out if the corresponding themes, problems, and arguments are not spared through sufficiently sedimented pre-determinations. Because the economic crisis has been intercepted and transformed into a systematic overloading of the public budget, it has put off the mantle of a natural fate of society. If governmental crisis management fails, it lags behind programmatic demands that it has placed on itself. The penalty for this failure is withdrawal of legitimation. Thus, the scope for action contracts precisely at those moments in which it needs to be drastically expanded.

Underlying this crisis theorem is the general reflection that a social identity determined indirectly, through the capability of securing-system integration, is constantly vulnerable on the basis of class structures. For the problematic consequences of the processed and transformed fundamental contradiction of social production for non-generalizable interests are concentrated, as O'Connor tries to show, in the focal region of the stratified raising and particularistic employment of the scarce quantities of taxes that a policy of crisis avoidance exhausts and overdraws. On the one hand, administrative and fiscal filtering of economically conditioned crisis tendencies makes the fronts of repeatedly fragmented class oppositions less comprehensible. The class compromise weakens the organizational capacity of the latently continuing classes. On the other hand, scattered secondary conflicts also become more palpable, because they do not appear as objective systemic crises, but directly provoke questions of legitimation. This explains the functional necessity of making the administrative system, as far as possible, independent of the legitimating system.

This end is served by the separation of instrumental functions of the administration from expressive symbols that release an unspecific readiness to follow. Familiar strategies of this kind are the personalization of substantive issues, the symbolic use of hearings, expert judgments, juridical incantations, and also the advertising techniques (copied from oligopolistic competition) that at once confirm and exploit existing structures of prejudice and that garnish certain contents positively, others negatively, through appeals to feeling, stimulation of unconscious motives, [l] etc. The public realm [Offentlichkeit], set up for effective legitimation, has above all the function of directing attention to topical areas--that is, of pushing other themes, problems, and arguments below the threshold of attention and, thereby, of withholding them from opinion-formation. The political system takes over tasks of ideology planning (Luhmann). In so doing, maneuvering room is, to be sure narrowly limited, for the cultural system is peculiarly resistant to administrative control. There is no administrative production of meaning. Commercial production and administrative planning of symbols exhausts the normative force of counterfactual validity claims. The procurement of legitimation is self-defeating as soon as the mode of procurement is seen through.

Cultural traditions have their own, vulnerable, conditions of reproduction. They remain "living" as long as they take shape in an unplanned, nature-like manner, or are shaped with hermeneutic consciousness. (Whereby hermeneutics, as the scholarly interpretation and application of tradition, has the peculiarity of breaking down the nature-like character of tradition as it is handed on and, nevertheless, of retaining it at a reflective level.) [2] The critical appropriation of tradition destroys this nature-like character in discourse. (Whereby the peculiarity of critique consists in its double function [3]: to dissolve analytically, or in a critique of ideology, validity claims that cannot be discursively redeemed; but, at the same time, to release the semantic potentials of the tradition.) [4] To this extent, critique is no less a form of appropriating tradition than hermeneutics. In both cases appropriated cultural contents retain their imperative force, that is, they guarantee the continuity of a history through which individuals and groups can identify with themselves and with one another. A cultural tradition loses precisely this force as soon as it is objectivistically prepared and strategically employed. In both cases conditions for the reproduction of cultural traditions are damaged, and the tradition is undermined. This can be seen in the museum-effect of a hedonistic historicism, as well as in the wear and tear that results from the exploitation of cultural contents for administrative or market purposes. Apparently, traditions can retain legitimizing force only as long as they are not torn out of interpretive systems that guarantee continuity and identity.

The structural dissimilarity between areas of administrative action and areas of cultural tradition constitutes, then, a systematic limit to attempts to compensate for legitimation deficits through conscious manipulation. Of course, a crisis argument can be constructed from this only in connection with the broader point that the expansion of state activity produces the side effect of a disproportionate increase in the need for legitimation. I consider a disproportionate increase probable, not only because the expansion of administratively processed matters makes necessary mass loyalty for new functions of state activity, but because the boundaries of the political system vis-a-vis the cultural system shift as a result of this expansion. In this situation, cultural affairs that were taken for granted, and that were previously boundary conditions for the political system, fall into the administrative planning area. Thus, traditions withheld from the public problematic, and all the more from practical discourses, are thematized. An example of such direct administrative processing of cultural tradition is educational planning, especially curriculum planning. Whereas school administrations formerly merely had to codify a canon that had taken shape in an unplanned, nature-like manner, present curriculum planning is based on the premise that traditional patterns could as well be otherwise. Administrative planning produces a universal pressure for legitimation in a sphere that was once distinguished precisely for its power of self-legitimation. [5] Other examples of the indirect perturbation of matters taken culturally for granted can be found in regional and city planning (private ownership of land), in planning the health system ("classless hospital"), and, finally, in family planning and marriage laws (which relax sexual taboos and lower the thresholds of emancipation). The end effect is a consciousness of the contingency, not only of the contents of tradition, but also of the techniques of tradition, that is, of socialization. Formal schooling is competing with family upbringing as early as at the pre-school age. The problematization of childrearing routines can be seen in the popular pedagogical [volkspadagogischen] tasks that schools are assuming through parental rights and individual consultations, as well as in the pedagogical-psychological, scientific journalism on the subject. [6]

At every level, administrative planning produces unintended unsettling and publicizing effects. These effects weaken the justification potential of traditions that have been flushed out of their nature-like course of development. Once their unquestionable character has been destroyed, the stabilization of validity claims can succeed only through discourse. The stirring up of cultural affairs that are taken for granted thus furthers the politicization of areas of life previously assigned to the private sphere. But this development signifies danger for the civil privatism that is secured informally through the structures of the public realm. Efforts at participation and the plethora of alternative models--especially in cultural spheres such as school and university, press, church, theater, publishing, etc.--are indicators of this danger, as is the increasing number of citizens' initiatives. [7]

Demands for, and attempts at, participatory planning can also be explained in this context. Because administrative planning increasingly affects the cultural system--that is, the deep-seated representations of norms and values of those affected--and renders traditional attitudes uncertain, the threshold of acceptability changes. In order to carry through innovations in the planning process, the administration experiments with the participation of those affected. Of course, the functions of participation in governmental planning are ambivalent. [8] Gray areas arise in which it is not clear whether the need for conflict regulation is increased or decreased by participation. The more planners place themselves under the pressure of consensus-formation in the planning process, the more likely is a strain that goes back to two contrary motives: excessive demands resulting from legitimation claims that the administration cannot satisfy under conditions of an asymmetrical class compromise; and conservative resistance to planning, which contracts the horizon of planning and lowers the degree of innovation possible. Socio-psychologically viewed, both motives can be integrated into the same antagonistic interpretive pattern. Thus, analytically separable types of opposition can be represented by the same group. For this reason, laying claim to the "labor power of participation" (Naschold) is an extreme and, for the administration, risky means of meeting legitimation deficits.

These arguments lend support to the assertion that advanced-capitalist societies fall into legitimation difficulties. But are they sufficient to establish the insolubility of legitimation problems, that is, do they lead necessarily to the prediction of a legitimation crisis? Even if the state apparatus were to succeed in raising the productivity of labor and in distributing gains in productivity in such a way that an economic growth free of crises (if not disturbances) were guaranteed, growth would still be achieved in accord with priorities that take shape as a function, not of generalizable interests of the population, but of private goals of profit maximization. The patterns of priorities that Galbraith analyzed from the point of view of "private wealth versus public poverty" [9] result from a class structure that is, as usual, kept latent. In the final analysis, this class structure is the source of the legitimation deficit.

We have seen now that the state cannot simply take over be cultural system, and that expansion of the areas of state planning actually makes problematic matters that were formerly culturally taken for granted. "Meaning" is a scarce resource and is becomingly ever scarcer. Consequently, expectations oriented to use values--that is, expectations monitored by success--are rising in the civil public. The rising level of demand is proportional to the growing need for legitimation. The fiscally siphoned-off resource "value" must take the place of the scanty resource "meaning." Missing legitimation must be offset by rewards conforming to the system. A legitimation crisis arises as soon as the demands for such rewards rise faster than the available quantity of value, or when expectations arise that cannot be satisfied with such rewards.

But why should not the levels of demand keep within the boundaries of the operating capacity of the political-economic system? It could, after all, be that the rate of the rise in level of demand is such that it forces on the steering and maintenance systems precisely those processes of adaptation and learning possible within the limits of the existing mode of production. The obvious post-war development of advanced-capitalist societies supports the view that this has already occurred. [10] As long as the welfare-state program, in conjunction with a widespread, technocratic common consciousness (which, in case of doubt, makes inalterable system restraints responsible for bottlenecks) can maintain a sufficient degree of civil privatism, legitimation needs do not have to culminate in a crisis.

Offe and his collaborators question whether the form of procuring legitimation does not make it necessary for competing parties to outbid one another in their programs and thereby raise the expectations of the population ever higher and higher. This could result in an unavoidable gap between the level of pretension and the level of success, which would lead to disappointments among the voting public. [11] The competitive democratic form of legitimation would then generate costs that it could not cover. Assuming that this argument could be sufficiently verified empirically, we would still have to explain why formal democracy has to be retained at all in advanced-capitalist societies. If one considers only the functional conditions of the administrative system, it could as well be replaced by variants: a conservative-authoritarian welfare state that reduces political participation of citizens to a harmless level; or a fascist-authoritarian state that holds the population by the bit at a relatively high level of permanent mobilization without having to overdraw its account through welfare-state measures. Both variants are, in the long run, obviously less compatible with developed capitalism than the constitution of a mass democracy with government by parties, for the socio-cultural system produces demands that cannot be met in authoritarian systems.

This reflection supports my thesis that only a rigid socio-cultural system, incapable of being randomly functionalized for the needs of the administrative system, could explain a sharpening of legitimation difficulties into a legitimation crisis. A legitimation crisis can be predicted only if expectations that cannot be fulfilled either with the available quantity of value or, generally, with rewards conforming to the system are systematically produced. A legitimation crisis then, must be based on a motivation crisis--that is, a discrepancy between the need for motives declared by the state, the educational system and the occupational system on the one hand, and the motivation supplied by the socio-cultural system on the other.



From Jurgen Habermas, Legitimation Crisis, (translated by Thomas McCarthy). Boston: Beacon Press, 1975, pp. 68-75.
Nomarchy
Fascists of the world unite, you have nothing to lose but your emasculated manhood. Fascism promises to give you back your testicles, you sorry little asses.

user posted image
Nomarchy
QUOTE
Those Christians who believe that Jews who don't convert to Christianity will be condemned to hell. Those Zionist Jews who see worship of a "false Messiah" by Christians as a major sin. Those Conservative Christians who decry the Mormon church as an anti-Christian cult. Party animals who engage in exploitative group sex and drug use and distribution. Conservatives who decry the "moral collapse of the USA". A television network that promotes some of the worst degradation of human relationships imaginable. Racist gang members who deal in drugs and street crime along with their racist assaults on black, Latino, and Muslim people. Patriotic immigrant groups who want to get a piece of the capitalist pie. Fiscal conservatives who decry lavish government spending alongside local politicians who have sucked tens of billions out of the taxpayers' pockets for their own special interests.
As reactionaries often do, G W Bush has "cobbled together" a coalition of groups who ideologically detest each other, but who manage to "rise above their principles" in order to satisfy their material (financial) interests in supporting the policies associated with G W Bush. Fascists often do this. Mussolini said that fascism had no consistent philosophy, other than the need to maintain power. Intellectuals can spend centuries trying to find the motives for fascism in the ideologies, but it will lead nowhere unless one also analyzes the conflicting and converging interest groups.

Analyzing the ideologies of fascisms is a very important enterprise, insofar as it helps us to understand how these ideologies appeal to grassroots people who have every genuine reason to oppose fascism.

But as to trying to understand the genesis of fascism as coming from a source of consistent philosophy---well, that distracts and diverts the struggle away from getting at the real roots of oppression........class stratification, class oppression, which flows from the actions of one class controlling the labor (including mental and cultural labor) of the subjugated class. And many of the "liberals" are quite capable of joining this "diverse coalition" for fascism when it suits their interests, which is why limiting the anti-fascist focus to the cultural conservatives and going softer on cultural liberals who also support repression is a deadly mistake.

Alan Spector

George Bush's Fascist Right Wing Base of Support
Nomarchy
QUOTE
Media commentators have been asking what role moral values and religion played in the presidential election's outcome. Democrats have been seeking to clearly define liberalism, explain the Democratic Party's moral values and determine the role religion should play in the party's public life.

A good start would be to remember American liberalism's roots and religious foundation. This country's founders developed their ideas during the Enlightenment, the historic period around 1650 to 1770, when science and reason began to supplant the barbarism, religious dogmatism and absolutism of the Middle Ages.

Thomas Jefferson expressed a personal religious faith, but he had many conflicts with a religiously intolerant clergy wanting to impose their specific dogma on the whole society. Jefferson and many other Enlightenment thinkers placed a high value on reason and opposed any form of religion or philosophical belief that oppressed rational thought.

In a letter to Dr. Benjamin Rush, September 23, 1800, Jefferson declared, "They [the clergy] believe that any portion of power confided to me, will be exerted in opposition to their schemes. And they believe rightly: for I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."

In "Notes on the State of Virginia" (1781-1785), Jefferson wrote, "Reason and free inquiry are the only effectual agents against error. Give a loose to them, they will support the true religion by bringing every false one to their tribunal, to the test of their investigation. They are the natural enemies of error, and of error only. Had not the Roman government permitted free inquiry, Christianity could never have been introduced. Had not free inquiry been indulged at the era of Reformation, the corruptions of Christianity could not have been purged away."

In "A Bill for Establishing Religious Freedom," known as "The Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom (1779)," Jefferson also denounced "the impious presumption of legislators and rulers, civil as well as ecclesiastical, who being themselves but fallible and uninspired men, have assumed dominion over the faith of others." He added, "Our civil rights have no dependence on our religious opinions, any more than our opinions in physics and geometry."

However, while resisting irrational or constraining dogma, Jefferson also expressed admiration for the moral teachings of Jesus, saying, "Of all the systems of morality, ancient or modern, which have come under my observation, none appears to me so pure as that of Jesus." (Letter to W. Canby, September 18, 1813.)

When Patrick Henry proposed a bill affirming Christianity as the "established religion of this Commonwealth," James Madison kept the bill from becoming law. In his "Memorial and Remonstrance" (1785), Madison noted that the mix of government and religion gave rise to "pride and indolence in the Clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry, and persecution."

Today we're returning to religious dogmatism, absolutism and anti-scientific thought among some members of the religious right, including certain George W. Bush supporters such as Jerry Falwell. Though America was founded on the basis of rational thought and tolerance for religious diversity, we now find we're revisiting pre-Enlightenment era thinking.

Robert Kuttner is co-editor of The American Prospect. In his article "An attack on American tolerance," [link] Kuttner says, "What is uniquely alarming in the United States today, among all the democracies and in our own history, is that a president of the United States is explicitly on the side of antimodernism. Never before has an American chief executive worked deliberately to foment a fundamentalist absolutism that is ultimately tribal, theocratic, antiscientific, and incompatible with pluralist democracy."

Bush has resisted scientific study involving stem cell research, professed belief that his decision to make war with Iraq is a divinely sanctioned crusade and embraced religious leaders who encourage intolerance, dogmatism and absolutism. Many Bush supporters on the religious right seem to think morals and values are almost entirely about sexual behavior and interpret the Bible in a way that justifies their prejudices against homosexuality.

In his article "Embattled faith needs enemies for focus," [link] reporter Gene Lyons says, "Apart from the timeless topic of Other People's Sex Lives, nothing gets fundamentalist Christianity's spiritual entrepreneurs going like vengeful Old Testament tribalism. The basic con is to insist upon the literal, historical and scientific accuracy of every syllable in the Bible while focusing selectively on passages confirming pre-existing phobias. Hence, they rarely are more dogmatic than when they are ignoring, if not actively contradicting, the essence of Christ's teachings."

Lyons continues, "Yes, Leviticus calls homosexuality an abomination. Also wearing garments of two fabrics, eating pork and shellfish, and planting two crops in one field. It recommends stoning to death anybody who works on the Sabbath. Exodus stipulates how to sell your daughters into slavery."

While the religious right's morals and values center on sexual behavior, liberal morals and values historically center on actively loving other people, working to uplift the poor, reducing human suffering by (for example) opposing unjust wars, striving for equality and fair treatment for diverse ethnic groups and others, enhancing civil liberties, using good reasoning skills and staying informed and involved as citizens.

Liberalism is represented in Franklin D. Roosevelt's New Deal, Lyndon Johnson's Great Society and the successful social movements of the 1960's including the civil rights and women's movements. American liberalism is also defined by the millions of ordinary people who have worked as activists throughout history, including those involved in various antiwar movements, the labor movement and abolitionism.

Liberalism is reflected in our country's literature - in Mark Twain's "The War Prayer;" Henry David Thoreau's "Civil Disobedience;" W. E. B. DuBois' "The Gift of Black Folk;" and many other works. (Conservatives in some parts of the country have banned some of these writers' books from public schools.)

In "Song of Myself," the poet Walt Whitman wrote about the pluralism and tolerance for diversity first advocated by the nation's founders. The "I" of the poem doesn't solely represent the poet himself but symbolizes all Americans:

"I am of old and young, of the foolish as much as the wise,
Regardless of others, ever regardful of others,
Maternal as well as paternal, a child as well as a man...
I believe in the flesh and the appetites,
Seeing, hearing, feeling, are miracles, and each part and tag of me is a miracle.
Divine am I inside and out, and I make holy whatever I touch or am touched from...
Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself,
(I am large, I contain multitudes.)"

Making room for "multitudes," embracing ambiguity and contradiction are characteristic of liberalism. Jefferson and other Enlightenment thinkers also tolerated diverse "multitudes" and allowed for ambiguity, and this kind of thinking has been an integral part of our nation's character and of liberal thought since our beginnings. However, Bush and many of his supporters seem intolerant of this way of thinking, instead insisting on a rigid either-or view of the world. For example, Bush stated, "When it comes to the war on terrorism, you're either with us or you're with the terrorists."

We need Democrats who will strongly oppose Bush's most egregious policies. Though strategists from the Democratic National Committee or the Democratic Leadership Council might suggest the Democratic party needs a better gimmick of one kind or another to win voters, what the public most wants to see in the Democratic leadership is a genuine dynamic passion for serving the public's interests.

For the Democratic Party to define itself and clarify its own morals and values, it needs to review liberalism's history and integrate that historic identity into its current collective personality. The party also needs to find a way to create a larger place for itself in the media and use radio and TV talk shows and other outlets as a way to inform the American people that liberalism is a positive alternative to radical right politics.

In "Notes on the State of Virginia," Thomas Jefferson wrote about the relationship between political leaders and a self-governing public. He said, "Every government degenerates when trusted to the rulers of the people alone. The people themselves are its only safe depositories." If the Democratic Party reclaims its roots and becomes the party of the people, it has a chance to come alive and save itself and maybe even revitalize democracy in the process.



The Enlightenment vs. Bush's Fascist America ...
Nomarchy
It's time for those who believe in the Enlightenment, those who believe in Reason, those who really think that all this "religous values" shit is nothing but a smoke-screen for reactionary politics to FIGHT BACK.
Nomarchy
It's time to shed one's petty-bourgeois sensibilities, and tell it like it is. It's Mizilus time.It's time to fight back. The reactionaries are about to take over the country. This land is your land, this land is my land. Take it back from the yahoos. Take it back from the fascists.

Enough! Enough "understanding of" and enough "coddling" of these fascists. Either they join the 21st century or they deserve to be sent to the metaphorical Siberia.

Fight back!!!!
Nomarchy
QUOTE
THE WORD "fascism" is used broadly on the left as a term of abuse. Sometimes it is used to refer to any repressive government, whatever its political form. Most commonly on the left in the U.S., it is used to describe any Republican government--in particular, any Republican government or candidate on the eve of a presidential election.

But fascism has a far more precise definition. Historically, fascism is a far-right movement of the middle classes (shopkeepers, professionals, civil servants) who are economically ruined by severe economic crisis and driven to "frenzy."

In the brilliant words of Leon Trotsky, fascism brings "to their feet those classes that are immediately above the working class and that are ever in dread of being forced down into its ranks; it organizes and militarizes them...and it directs them to the extirpation of proletarian organizations, from the most revolutionary to the most conservative."

Fascism unites the middle classes on the basis of the "nation" and race, under the leadership of some iron-fisted leader who will solve the crisis and restore "national greatness." But while fascism appeals to the middle class on the basis of a kind of "fool’s socialism"--anti-Semitic criticism of the role of big business, for example--fascist movements do not bring the middle class to power.

As Leon Trotsky wrote: "German fascism... raised itself to power on the backs of the petty bourgeoisie, which it turned into a battering ram against the organizations of the working class and the institutions of democracy. But fascism in power is least of all the rule of the petty bourgeoisie. On the contrary, it is the most ruthless dictatorship of monopoly capital."

In power, as we know, fascism ruthlessly crushed even the most limited forms of parliamentary democracy. Clearly, this is not the character of the conservative state under which we current live. Moreover, if we were to accept the wrong definition of fascism (repression), then we would be forced into the position of saying that the Democrats are also "fascist."

Even the "freest" electoral system in the world keeps in reserve special laws designed to nullify various democratic rights in the name of "national security" or "emergency." In the U.S. historically there has been a great deal of legal and also violent repression against working-class struggle and other social movements, regardless of the party in power.

Democratic president Woodrow Wilson pushed through the Espionage Act during the First World War that sent more than 1,000 people to jail for speaking out against the war. After the war, Wilson rounded up and deported 6,000 foreign-born radicals.

Franklin Delano Roosevelt, considered the archetypal Democrat, forced 120,000 people of Japanese descent into concentration camps. Under his presidency, troops were used 43 time to quell labor disputes.

In 1948, Democrat Harry Truman--the man who began the Cold War witch-hunts--ordered the army in to seize control of the railroads to stop a railroad workers’ strike. In the 1960s, the FBI’s secret COINTELPRO operation against activists was begun and thrived under Democratic administrations. Clinton’s Anti-Terrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act paved the way for the even more repressive laws being pushed these days.

If we lived in a fascist state, it would be impossible to even publish this newspaper, let alone print this article. To cry "fascism" every time a Republican is in the White House is to drastically underestimate what fascism really is. Secondly, it feeds illusions in the idea that the Democrats are somehow less likely to resort to police measures to attack working-class and political movements.

You can’t have it both ways. Either fascism is a police dictatorship resting on the middle class and backed by big business (the meaningful definition), or it is simply a word for repression. Calling the Bush administration "fascist," without also calling equally repressive Democratic administrations "fascist" is simply a way of scaring progressives into voting the lesser evil.



Is George Bush a fascist?
Art.
QUOTE(Nomarchy @ Dec 14 2004, 12:44 AM)
It's time to shed one's petty-bourgeois sensibilities, and tell it like it is. It's Mizilus time.It's time to fight back. The reactionaries are about to take over the country. This land is your land, this land is my land. Take it back from the yahoos. Take it back from the fascists.

Enough! Enough "understanding of" and enough "coddling" of these fascists. Either they join the 21st century or they deserve  to be sent to the metaphorical Siberia.

Fight back!!!!
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Here's a little hint, put a brick in your purse. Nice post. ZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Jurgenoff's tripe is as boring in the original translation as when you try to articulate it for him.
davis¹³
Wow, everyone left. I turned off my PC and almost everyone left.


Good articles nom.


QUOTE
Until America stirs from in front of the flickering light from the idiot-inducing box, these animals will continue to soil and degrade everything that was once nearly great about America. Until America wakes up and demands that our government return to a total policy of defending the freedoms given to us through the Constitution and Bill of Rights instead of slowly eroding and ignoring those freedoms, we will always have the government that the majority deserves.  Sadly, those of us sick unto death of these evil, shameful and corrupt rodents must suffer the same fate as the mindless majority.


Good morning GG.
davis¹³
A letter from my local paper that about sums the "values" or "moral Americans" issue.


Plenty of moral issues besides abortion, gay rights

Tuesday, December 14, 2004

In his letter of Dec. 6, Dr. Reed Yeater finds America divided between "those with moral values, and those who would subordinate those traits to selfish or economic pursuits," an echo of the sentiments attributed to the typical Bush "morality voter" as described in the media in exhaustive post-election detail.


These folks tend to locate the overriding moral issues of our times in the areas of reproductive rights and gay rights. In this highly compartmentalized worldview, morality is narrowly defined as sexual morality; therefore, lying to Congress, the United Nations and the American people in order to plunge our country into a brutal war of choice in Iraq is not a moral issue.


The resulting death or dismemberment of thousands of American troops - and perhaps hundreds of thousands of Iraqi men, women and children - is not a moral issue.

Rolling back 30 years of environmental protections is not a moral issue. Exhausting our planet's finite resources with no thought of tomorrow is not a moral issue.


Mortgaging our children's future by running up astronomical debt through vanity wars and tax cuts for the wealthy is not a moral issue.

Squandering our resources and undermining our security by invading and destroying sovereign nations so that Bechtel and Haliburton can make out like bandits when they rebuild them - this is not a moral issue.

Life can be so simple.

davis¹³
That is a keeper.
Repub_Bub
QUOTE(davis¹³ @ Dec 14 2004, 02:42 PM)
That is a keeper.
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It's too early for ya davis...even you can't believe that.
Bart Katz
[center]Oh good, another
Nomarchy Freakout!!

snoooore[/center]
Art.
QUOTE(davis¹³ @ Dec 14 2004, 06:12 AM)

Good articles nom.

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Tell me WHY they're good. Do you agree there's a legitimation crisis? What are your views on the life world versus the system world?
davis¹³
QUOTE
It's too early for ya davis...even you can't believe that.


Absolutely. The wealthy will be richer than they ever have been under Bush. The poor? lol, the poor are expendable to this administration. A cost of doing business.

Of course Nader was right, that's why I voted for him instead of Gore, and I agreed with most of his conclusions, just not on his timing or technique.
Art.
QUOTE(Bart Katz @ Dec 14 2004, 08:14 AM)
Oh good, another  Nomarchy Freakout!!



Except only one paragraph was actually Nomarchy. Repeatedly I wait for Nomarchy's minions to tell me why the views he regurgitates from other people's works are so insightful and important. What their meaning is and where they agree or disagree. Why is Habermas so instructive and what has he really added to the fellows his works are derived from. (Husserl and Heidegger)

I don't need a whole term paper. How about just a couple paragraphs on what Habermas is trying to say and how it applies to Nomarchy's original answer (and I might add makes you right to some extent according to Nomarchy)

I just wanna know what color the Emperors suit is. Do all of Nomarchy's buddies agree?
Bart Katz
QUOTE(Arturo_Vandelay @ Dec 14 2004, 09:33 AM)
Except only one paragraph was actually Nomarchy. Repeatedly I wait for Nomarchy's minions to tell me why the views he regurgitates from other people's works are so insightful and important. What their meaning is and where they agree or disagree. Why is Habermas so instructive and what has he really added to the fellows his works are derived from. (Husserl and Heidegger)

I don't need a whole term paper. How about just a couple paragraphs on what Habermas is trying to say and how it applies to Nomarchy's original answer (and I might add makes you right to some extent according to Nomarchy)

I just wanna know what color the Emperors suit is. Do all of Nomarchy's buddies agree?
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Remember how contest entry instructions used to start with, in 25 words or less, please .. ... ... .... ....?
davis¹³
QUOTE
Tell me WHY they're good. Do you agree there's a legitimation crisis? What are your views on the life world versus the system world?




Actually I should have said "some of the articles were good". I didn't read all of them.

QUOTE
The babies in the incubator story is a classic example of how easy it is for the public and legislators to be mislead during moments of high tension. It's also a vivid example of how the media can be manipulated if we do not keep our guards up.



The facism articles are chilling to say the least. I know you won't like the comparison, but the parrallels between the Reichstag in Germany and Republicans using 9/11 to seize control of our government are disturbing. And yes, I sincerely believe that. 9/11 was a golden opportunity for the Republicans and they have used it for maximum political advantage. There is a problem. Throwing religion into the mix is like throwing napalm on fire.

QUOTE
life world versus the system world



I'm not sure what you mean. I'm not familiar with the term.
Art.
QUOTE(Bart Katz @ Dec 14 2004, 08:38 AM)
Remember how contest entry instructions used to start with, in 25 words or less, please .. ... ... ....  ....?
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Yep. Though I have to admit 25 might not be enough. I've gone this route too many times to count. I don't mind Nomarchy being Nomarchy, but have a real sense that those that always congratulate him just do so out of some sort of political allegiance as opposed to any understanding or agreement with the content.
davis¹³
QUOTE
Except only one paragraph was actually Nomarchy. Repeatedly I wait for Nomarchy's minions to tell me why the views he regurgitates from other people's works are so insightful and important. What their meaning is and where they agree or disagree.


To be honest, I didn't read all the post. I'd rather read long stuff in print on paper. Also, when you use the quote feature it lightens the font.


However, I would never classify his posts as "regurgitation". I quote long articles too. Just about everyone here does.


by the way artie, is there a spellcheck available?

I a dummy.

laugh.gif

Art.
QUOTE(davis¹³ @ Dec 14 2004, 08:44 AM)
Actually I should have said "some of the articles were good". I didn't read all of them.

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There were only a couple. But thanks for telling me. I didn't figure anyone will actually read the Habermas, but there was hope. Maybe someone else will want to explore his works and fill me in on how they relate to Nomarchy's original point.
Art.
QUOTE(davis¹³ @ Dec 14 2004, 08:50 AM)

by the way artie, is there a spellcheck available?

I a dummy.

laugh.gif
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There was some talk on the company forum of a spellcheck, but I think you have to upload it to the forum yourself. I was skeered I'd delete the whole place or mess something up so I just didn't mess with it.

There's an upgrade now and I'm nervous about even doing that. Probably will on a late weekend night.

QUOTE
However, I would never classify his posts as "regurgitation".


Quoting long articles is OK if they have a direct relation to the discussion. Using obscure references and job specific terminology is a bit of a pain, but if they are required I can understand. But sometimes it looks to me as if long articles and obscure theories seem to be a way of ending a discussion rather than advancing it. The long article posted to avoid clarifying what the original intent of the obscure reference was.

I can usually figure out what people want to tell me IF they really want to communicate. I don't feel Nomarchy was really trying to make a point as much as cut me off with something that really didn't directly apply. Which is why I'd like others as well as Nomarchy to tell me why it did, rather than post pages of meandering theory sans comment.
Nomarchy
The long quoted excerpt from Legitimation Crisis was posted so that everyone can see that I didn't "cut-and-paste" anything.

The rest, including a piece that countered the habit of calling Bush and his regime "fascist", were posted for obvious reasons.
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