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Bart Katz
QUOTE(davis¹³ @ Dec 30 2004, 11:26 AM)
You have a problem with reality, son. I told you I don't have to play your little pretend all the Republicans are inherently morally superior game. They aren't.

Bribery and corruption is meaningless to you so called "moral", ex-Contract for America folks as long as your causes get the profit.

Face it barto, it took Democrats 40 years to entrench themselves and their special interests in government. It took the Republicans 10. $$$$$$$$$$
They mixed religion and war, then used them as political tools to acomplish their goals.  In my book that makes them the absolute worse type of opportunists. The truth will be forced upon the US public eventually. The truth is there, you just have to wade through the administration's lies and religion laced, false patriotic propaganda to get to it. Using religion and war as a weapon to smash critics and as a cover to get away with unethical, immoral activities is disgusting and wrong.

They are far more corrupt than Democrats ever were.

Morals? Values? Sure buddy. Pretend all you want. wacko.gif
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Is this supposed to make you less full of shit?
Repub_Bub
QUOTE(Bart Katz @ Dec 30 2004, 09:03 PM)
Is this supposed to make you less full of shit?
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I think nomarchy installs butt plugs.
Nomarchy
QUOTE(Repub_Bub @ Dec 30 2004, 02:28 PM)
I think nomarchy installs butt plugs.
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In your case, the butt plug is a two-fer: You can use it to plug that gaping malodourous hole called your mouth.
Repub_Bub
QUOTE(Nomarchy @ Dec 30 2004, 10:32 PM)
In your case, the butt plug is a two-fer: You can use it to plug that gaping malodourous hole called your mouth.
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I know you have often been accused of speaking out-yer-ass but I'd no idea you were able to incorporate the activity professionally...
How do your students feel? I think most would be somewhat uncomfortable attending a sociology course taught by boy butt-plug.
Bee
Have you posted anything but insults and look-down-your-nose superior comments?!?

What is your problem? Or are you merely exhibiting your brand of "christian values?"

Here's an old saying for ya bub: If you have nothing to contribute, stfu. You really are quite tiresome.

rolleyes.gif
Repub_Bub
QUOTE(Bee @ Dec 31 2004, 12:00 AM)
Have you posted anything but insults and look-down-your-nose superior comments?!?

What is your problem? Or are you merely exhibiting your brand of "christian values?"

Here's an old saying for ya bub: If you have nothing to contribute, stfu. You really are quite tiresome.

rolleyes.gif
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I know you will find this difficult to believe but if you read any of my posts you will find that I am on the defensive.
Bee
QUOTE(Repub_Bub @ Dec 30 2004, 07:02 PM)
I know you will find this difficult to believe but if you read any of my posts you will find that I am on the defensive.
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And I put you on the defensive, how?

I noticed your nasty comments. What did I do to you?

I never thought I'd do this, but as you've nothing interesting to say...

QUOTE
This section allows you to set up your ignored users list.
When you add a user to your ignore list, any posts they make will be masked until you specify that you wish to read them.


smile.gif

That's better.
Repub_Bub
QUOTE(Bee @ Dec 31 2004, 12:07 AM)
And I put you on the defensive, how?

I noticed your nasty comments. What did I do to you?

I never thought I'd do this, but as you've nothing interesting to say...
smile.gif

That's better.
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Lol....it ain't always about you.
Nomarchy
QUOTE(Repub_Bub @ Dec 30 2004, 04:56 PM)
I know you have often been accused of speaking out-yer-ass but I'd no idea you were able to incorporate the activity professionally...
How do your students feel? I think most would be somewhat uncomfortable attending a sociology course taught by boy butt-plug.
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What do you do for a living, Sir?

I would appreciate it very much if you were to restrict your commentary to me, personally. What you've done above is the lowest of the low. Please, cease and desist. It's one thing for us to take potshot at each other on a personal level. It's quite another for you to bring my profession and my students into it. Again, I would very much appreciate it if you were to not do it again. Thanks.
Repub_Bub
QUOTE(Nomarchy @ Dec 31 2004, 12:52 AM)
What do you do for a living, Sir?

I would appreciate it very much if you were to restrict your commentary to me, personally. What you've done above is the lowest of the low. Please, cease and desist. It's one thing for us to take potshot at each other on a personal level. It's quite another for you to bring my profession and my students into it. Again, I would very much appreciate it if you were to not do it again. Thanks.
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Surely you can't imagine that it was anything other that a potshot. Such a perceived affront as you demonstrate is akin to believing that being called a son-of-a-bitch is a personal attack on one's mother.

At any rate, if you are as thin-skinned as you claim then you are entitled to a free potshot at me...get your butt-plug ready while I turn the other cheek.
lil bart
QUOTE(Repub_Bub @ Dec 30 2004, 05:29 PM)
Surely you can't imagine that it was anything other that a potshot. Such a perceived affront as you demonstrate is akin to believing that being called a son-of-a-bitch is a personal attack on one's mother.

At any rate, if you are as thin-skinned as you claim then you are entitled to a free potshot at me...get your butt-plug ready while I turn the other cheek.
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A "sorry, Nomarchy" woulda worked better. The "thread" is shuddersome -- 'nuff said .... way more than.
Nomarchy
QUOTE(Repub_Bub @ Dec 30 2004, 06:29 PM)
Surely you can't imagine that it was anything other that a potshot. Such a perceived affront as you demonstrate is akin to believing that being called a son-of-a-bitch is a personal attack on one's mother.

At any rate, if you are as thin-skinned as you claim then you are entitled to a free potshot at me...get your butt-plug ready while I turn the other cheek.
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I see your points, but humor me.

Enough potshots for one day.
Repub_Bub
QUOTE(Nomarchy @ Dec 31 2004, 01:43 AM)
I see your points, but humor me.

Enough potshots for one day.
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I'm sorry.
Repub_Bub
QUOTE(lil bart @ Dec 31 2004, 01:35 AM)
A "sorry, Nomarchy" woulda worked better. The "thread" is shuudersome -- 'nuff said .... way more than.
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Not that any of you lefties are particularly interested in balance but I began the day by asking davis a completly innocuous question and was greeted by GFY...
On another thread I hit back with a minor jab and was "accosted" by nomarchy who introduced the butt-plug.

I also attempted a reasonable request to GG and was met by some silly comment from Space. After reading multiple posts of the Administration's "failure" to properly respond to the Asian disaster I made another minor interjection...again nomarchy made a couple of more jabs which I largely ignored.

After enduring the odd, and totaly unreasonable tirades by smerf I found the opportunity to potshoot nomarchy by reintroduced the butt-plug...naturally bee found it completely out of line and put me on ignore....and,as usual, you have scolded me for my misdeeds.


I guess....all in all....a typical day.
Art.
QUOTE(Repub_Bub @ Dec 30 2004, 07:14 PM)

I guess....all in all....a typical day.
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Ain't it great? It'll keep you're wits sharp and blood flowing to the brain.
Human Ills
QUOTE(Repub_Bub @ Dec 30 2004, 06:14 PM)


After enduring the odd, and totaly unreasonable tirades by smerf I found the opportunity to potshoot nomarchy by reintroduced the butt-plug...naturally bee found it completely out of line and put me on ignore....and,as usual, you have scolded me for my misdeeds.
I guess....all in all....a typical day.
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The only bad thing about the ignore feature is that if someone replies to the designated tardo's post, you get to see it in it's blossoming idiocy. tongue.gif
Repub_Bub
QUOTE(Arturo_Vandelay @ Dec 31 2004, 02:21 AM)
Ain't it great? It'll keep you're wits sharp and  blood flowing to the brain.
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On point, as usual....You gotta be the best ringmaster they ever wuz...wouldn't miss this show for anything on earth.
davis¹³

QUOTE
Not that any of you lefties are particularly interested in balance but I began the day by asking davis a completly innocuous question and was greeted by GFY...



You have NEVER asked a completly innocuous question. You always have an ulterior motive. GFY, again.
Repub_Bub
QUOTE(davis¹³ @ Dec 31 2004, 02:40 AM)
You have NEVER asked a completly innocuous question. You always have an ulterior motive. GFY, again.
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This is the shortest comment you have ever made....did ya put new brakes on the RantMobile?
davis¹³
GBY.



Thomas' Acceptance of Gifts Tops Justices

By Richard A. Serrano and David G. Savage, Times Staff Writer

WASHINGTON — Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas has accepted tens of thousands of dollars worth of gifts since joining the Supreme Court, from $1,200 worth of tires to valuable historical items and a $5,000 personal check to help pay a relative's education expenses.

The gifts included a Bible once owned by the 19th century author and abolitionist leader Frederick Douglass, which Thomas valued at $19,000, and a bust of President Lincoln valued at $15,000.

He also took a free trip aboard a private jet to the exclusive Bohemian Grove club in northern California -- arranged by a wealthy Texas real estate investor who has helped run an advocacy group that filed briefs with the Supreme Court.

Those and other gifts were disclosed by Thomas under a 1978 federal ethics law that requires high-ranking government officials, including the nine Supreme Court justices, to file a report each year that lists gifts, money and other items they have received.

Thomas has reported accepting much more valuable gifts than his Supreme Court colleagues over the last six years, according to their disclosure forms on file at the court.

The Ethics in Government Act of 1989 prohibits all federal employees, including the justices, from accepting "anything of value" from a person with official business before them. However, under the rules that the federal judicial system adopted to implement that law, judges are free to accept gifts of unlimited value from people without official business before the court.

Representatives for the federal judiciary and the Supreme Court argue that requiring the disclosure of any gifts is sufficient to prevent corruption or the appearance of favoritism.

But in October, an American Bar Association panel called for tightening the rules to forbid judges from taking expensive gifts, free tickets and other valuable items, regardless of who is the donor.

"Why would someone do that -- give a gift to Clarence Thomas? Unless they are family members or really close friends, the only reason to give gifts is to influence the judge," said Mark I. Harrison, a Phoenix lawyer who heads the ABA's Commission on the Model Code of Judicial Conduct. "And we think it is not helpful to have judges accepting gifts for no apparent reason."

"The public has to wonder when a justice accepts lavish gifts," said Northwestern University law professor Steven Lubet, a legal ethics expert. "The rich and powerful have a different set of economic interests than other people, and they can afford to give lavish gifts."


Thomas, through a court spokeswoman, declined to comment when asked in writing why he deemed it appropriate to accept some of the larger gifts. But a former clerk to Thomas defended the practice.

"I don't see anything wrong in this. I don't see why it is inappropriate to get gifts from friends," said John C. Yoo, now a law professor at the University of California, Berkeley. "This reflects a bizarre effort to over-ethicize everyday life. If one of these people were to appear before the Supreme Court, Justice Thomas would recuse himself. So I don't see the problem."

Despite the open-ended rules, most of the other Supreme Court justices reported accepting only items of lesser value, or token gifts for speaking at formal events, or nothing at all.

The Los Angeles Times reviewed the disclosures of all nine justices for the years 1998 through 2003, the only period of time for which disclosure forms were still on file at the court. They reported receiving cash, which they usually gave to charity, but kept or used various valuable items, mementos and club memberships.

In that six-year period, Thomas accepted $42,200 in gifts, making him easily the top recipient.


http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/na...-home-headlines
lil bart
QUOTE(Repub_Bub @ Dec 30 2004, 06:14 PM)
Not that any of you lefties are particularly interested in balance but I began the day by asking davis a completly innocuous question and was greeted by GFY...
On another thread I hit back with a minor jab and was "accosted" by nomarchy who introduced the butt-plug.

I also attempted a reasonable request to GG and was met by some silly comment from Space. After reading multiple posts of the Administration's "failure" to properly respond to the Asian disaster I made another minor interjection...again nomarchy made a couple of more jabs which I largely ignored.

After enduring the odd, and totaly unreasonable tirades by smerf I found the opportunity to potshoot nomarchy by reintroduced the butt-plug...naturally bee found it completely out of line and put me on ignore....and,as usual, you have scolded me for my misdeeds.
I guess....all in all....a typical day.
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Hmmm. Well, I did apparently miss the history. But you apparently missed the not-quite-news flash that I'm not a lefty. smile.gif
Art.
Maybe we should choose up new teams. I always thought it would be fun to pick a relatively non-confrontational topic and have everyone take the opposite side they usually would. Just as an exercise in critical thinking.
Nomarchy
QUOTE(Repub_Bub @ Dec 30 2004, 06:48 PM)
I'm sorry.
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Thanks. That was graceful.

Again, let the personal insults fly as I try to take as good as I give.
lil bart
QUOTE(Arturo_Vandelay @ Dec 30 2004, 09:03 PM)
Maybe we should choose up new teams. I always thought it would be fun to pick a relatively non-confrontational topic and have everyone take the opposite side they usually would. Just as an exercise in critical thinking.
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That would be fun.

Oops, I mean, what a stupid fargin' asshole idea you moron. blink.gif
Human Ills
QUOTE(Arturo_Vandelay @ Dec 30 2004, 09:03 PM)
Maybe we should choose up new teams. I always thought it would be fun to pick a relatively non-confrontational topic and have everyone take the opposite side they usually would. Just as an exercise in critical thinking.
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New teams? Let the guys be shirts and the girls be skins.
Art.
QUOTE(Human Ills @ Dec 30 2004, 10:58 PM)
New teams? Let the guys be shirts and the girls be skins.
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You mean I gotta get dressed?
Human Ills
QUOTE(Arturo_Vandelay @ Dec 30 2004, 10:01 PM)
You mean I gotta get dressed?
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Hey buddy, you don't gotta do nuthin'. smile.gif
lil bart
[center]Nut 'N Honey[/center]
davis¹³
QUOTE
Oops, I mean, what a stupid fargin' asshole idea you moron.


Blah, blah, blah, fargin asshole, blah, blah, blah. moron.

laugh.gif laugh.gif
davis¹³
House to Consider Relaxing Its Rules
GOP Leaders Seek Ethics Changes

By Mike Allen and Charles Babington
Washington Post Staff Writers
Friday, December 31, 2004; Page A01

House Republican leaders are urging members to alter one of the chamber's fundamental ethics rules, which would make it harder for lawmakers to discipline a colleague.

The proposed change would essentially negate a general rule of conduct that the ethics committee has often cited in admonishing lawmakers -- including Majority Leader Tom DeLay -- for bringing discredit on the House even if their behavior was not covered by a specific regulation. Backers of the rule, adopted three decades ago, say it is important because the House's conduct code cannot anticipate every instance of questionable behavior that might reflect poorly on the chamber.



Republicans, returning to the Capitol on Tuesday after increasing their House majority by three seats in the Nov. 2 election, also want to relax a restriction on relatives of lawmakers accepting foreign and domestic trips from groups interested in legislation before the House.

Well isn't that sweet. Tell me, honest rightwingers, would a free trip to Hawaii for you and your family affect the way you do business with someone? How about the Riviera? Under the new rules I could send DeLay and his whole god damned genetically inferior family to the most luxurious resort in the world and IT WOULD BE LEGAL!!!!!

Why isn't it considered a bribe? That's exactly what it is. Fucking assholes. Junkets? How about BRIBES? What part of this is ethical or moral?


A third proposed rule change would allow either party to stop the House ethics committee from investigating a complaint against a member.

How nice. I guess Jim Wright could have used that procedure when Tom DeLay went after him and ended his carreer. What disgusts me is DeLay goes after Wright for ethics violations then VIOLATES ETHICS but his collegues CHANGE THE ****ING RULES TO GET HIM OUT OF THE SAME SHIT WRIGHT WAS IN. Unbelievable.

And you rightwingers wonder why I hate and slam these assholes. As far as I'm concerned, anyone who supports these guys on the "values" or "morality" issue, have none themselves.

The fox is indeed guarding the henhouse.


Currently, if the panel, which is evenly divided between Republicans and Democrats, is deadlocked on a complaint, the matter automatically goes to an investigative subcommittee after 45 days. The proposed change would drop any complaint that is not backed by a majority vote to move it forward.

Government watchdog groups called the proposals startling and unjustified. If the proposed rules are adopted next week as GOP leaders suggest, they would amount to "the biggest backtracking on House ethics rules that we have seen," said Fred Wertheimer, president of Democracy 21.

Hey all you brain-dead, brainwashed rightwing hypocrites!!! Rememner the Contract for America? Republicabns sure the **** don't.



The proposals are among the nearly two dozen House rule changes being circulated for comment this week by GOP leaders, in preparation for the 109th Congress. The majority Republican caucus plans to discuss the proposals Monday, with the full House scheduled to vote on them Tuesday.

Several Republicans have criticized the ethics process in the wake of three admonitions this year against DeLay (R-Tex.). A House official familiar with the new proposal on the rule about bringing discredit said the ethics committee could not have acted against DeLay if the change had been in place.


A high-ranking House GOP aide, who could speak only on background because of his office's rules, said many lawmakers support the rule change because they do not want the ethics committee to be able to act against a member by saying "we're not sure what he's done wrong, but we don't like it."

The House Code of Conduct requires members and aides to conduct themselves "in a manner which shall reflect creditably on the House." Over the years, the ethics committee has cited the provision in, for example, rebuking DeLay for his dealings with a Kansas-based energy company seeking legislative favors. DeLay's actions did not violate a specific law or House rule, the panel concluded this fall, but they reflected poorly on the House.

Under the proposed change, lawmakers would automatically be in compliance with the Code of Conduct if they met the narrower standard of following "applicable laws, regulations and rules."

Can you say freedom to do whatever they want? Contract for America my ass. If this bullshit can't convince you these guys are just wanting to cover their unethical activities then you are just plain stupid.



A House official familiar with the ethics committee's rules and traditions said the proposed change is "an effort to say a member's conduct does not bring discredit on the House unless it violates a specific rule." The official, who cited committee guidelines in demanding anonymity, said this year's admonitions against DeLay would not have been possible under the proposed change because House rules are not specific and numerous enough to bar every instance of dubious behavior that might occur.


DeLay, responding to the ethics committee's findings in September, said that he "would never knowingly violate the rules of the House" and that he deeply believes that members "must conduct ourselves at all times in a manner that reflects creditably on this institution."


Does anyone, including rightwingers here, believe this guy? Human Ills, what the **** is wrong with this picture?

Earlier this year, House Republicans rewrote a party rule so that DeLay can keep his leadership job even if he is indicted by a Texas grand jury. The grand jury has indicted three of his political associates in an investigation of campaign finances related to a House redistricting plan that DeLay helped push through in Texas.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/artic...-2004Dec30.html
davis¹³
But various other ethical controversies have gone unchallenged by the White House. For example, the Center for Public Integrity calculated that nine of the 30 members of the Pentagon's Defense Policy Board had ties to companies that won more than $76 billion in defense contracts in 2001 and 2002. Four of the 30 were registered lobbyists.

Also at the Pentagon, then-Army Secretary Thomas E. White was scolded by the top Republican and Democrat on the Senate Armed Services Committee because he retained options to buy Enron Corp. stock eight months after he told the company he would divest his holdings.

Now there are probes into the Air Force's controversial lease of Boeing refueling planes. Negotiations were tilted toward Boeing by an Air Force procurement officer, Darleen A. Druyun, who later took a job with Boeing. Druyun and Boeing's former chief financial officer pleaded guilty to ethics charges.

Larry Noble, director of the Center for Responsive Politics, charges that "the administration has been slowly undermining a number of [ethics] rules."


well duhhhh... but like HI says, not to worry, we can trust them.They are moral. Right?



Republicans say nothing out of the ordinary has occurred. "I don't see any loosening of the ethics regulations," said Jan Baran, who runs the law firm Wiley Rein & Fielding's ethics practice and represented former House speaker Newt Gingrich (R-Ga.) in his ethics battles. "Those who administer these laws are so numerous they have a trade association now."

laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

Rep. Henry A. Waxman (Calif.), the ranking Democrat on the Government Reform Committee, examined the 43 inspectors general appointed by Bush and Clinton. Although the inspectors general -- internal watchdogs in each agency -- are supposed to be nonpartisan, Waxman found that 64 percent of the inspectors general Bush appointed had previous political experience and only 18 percent had audit experience.

Stanley Brand, an ethics lawyer who has represented many Democrats, said that, with the exception of complaints against DeLay, both parties on Capitol Hill have stepped back from the barrage of ethics complaints that dominated the 1990s when interest groups were permitted to file complaints against lawmakers. Some of that relaxation was necessary, Brand said. But now, he said, things may have "swung too far the other way."

You think? Does it take a genius to figure that one out, EINSTEIN?
davis¹³
THE NATION
Ethics: In the Eye of the Beholden?
# Conflict-of-interest woes involving House and Senate members have resulted in wrist slaps and promises -- but little actual reform.


By Walter F. Roche Jr., Times Staff Writer

WASHINGTON — Faced with mounting evidence that current ethics rules do not cover new ways lobbyists have devised to win favor with members of Congress, the House ethics committee plans to unveil an array of proposed changes next year.

But the proposed changes appear likely to loosen ethics restrictions, not tighten them.


look at this.

One change would let special interests begin to pay some of a representative's official operating expenses — in effect, making the member beholden for the daily activities of his or her congressional office.

Hey HI, you telling me if the pharmeceutical industry or the oil industry sets a congressman up a deluxe office and staff for free that they won't automatically favor their financial interests? Good lord, this is so BLATANT. This is what's poisoned the evangelical movement. It is directly connected. Unbelievable. Especially for people who got themselves elected using "ethics" and the Contract for America. They are much worse than the Democrats were.

Another would increase the number of family members allowed to go on junkets paid for by private interests, a move seen as weakening the rules designed to keep members of Congress independent of outside groups.


Can you say, "all expense paid trip to Tahiti? Whooo hooo!! It's just keeps getting better for the wealthy, doesn't it?



The House proposals to loosen ethics restrictions parallel a lack of reform efforts on ethics issues in the Congress as a whole.

Former Senate ethics committee chairman Harry Reid (D-Nev.), now Senate minority leader, has made no apparent effort to push for the ethics review he called for last year after The Times detailed extensive financial relationships between members of Reid's family and business interests he had helped.

And this past fall, House Republicans voted to abolish a rule they had pushed for in 1993 that barred members who were under indictment on felony charges from serving in leadership positions.

The indictment rule was eliminated to protect Majority Leader Tom DeLay (R-Texas), who is being investigated by a grand jury in Travis County, Texas. DeLay, whom the ethics committee admonished twice on other matters earlier this year, dismisses the inquiry as politically motivated.

"The message to members is clear," Gary Ruskin of the Congressional Accountability Project said. "The ethics committees are toothless by design."

Dennis F. Thompson, a Harvard University professor and the author of a book on congressional ethics, questioned whether the present system of self-policing on ethics was workable, though he expressed doubt that members would ever turn the matter over to an outside body, as some reformers suggested.

"Keeping investigations to themselves is the ultimate conflict of interest. And it is bipartisan in an unfortunate way," he added, noting that members know that "if a Republican is charged this month, a Democrat will be charged next."



And therein lies the problem. Democrats have been doing it for years and the Republicans know that. So basically, most of Congress is tainted one way or the other and now it's a free-for-all for Republicans who know Democrats are guilty too. It's a loot fest, and as long as Republicans can get away with it, their so-called "morals" or "values" voters will just be quiet while the cash rolls in. Of course they no longer have any claim whatsoever to the "morals" or "values" issue, though for some weird, twisted reason they think they should.


"In the meantime," he said, "citizens and the democratic process suffer."

Here is a prime example:

The kinds of ethics issues that have stimulated calls for reform are reflected in the recent activities of Rep. James C. Greenwood (R-Pa.), who chaired an investigative subcommittee of the Senate Energy and Commerce committee.

During the past year, Greenwood's subcommittee conducted two probes of the pharmaceuticals industry. One involved apparent conflicts of interest among scientists at the National Institutes of Health who also worked for pharmaceutical companies. The subcommittee also investigated suspected links between antidepressant drugs and suicide among children.

At one point, Greenwood sent a letter to the chief executive of the pharmaceuticals giant Pfizer demanding information on allegations that Pfizer and other companies withheld data showing that suicide rates rose among children who were given the antidepressants.

At the same time the probes were underway, a drug industry trade group supported by those companies was secretly negotiating with Greenwood over a job that would more than quadruple his House salary — paying him $650,000 a year, with bonuses totaling as much as $200,000 more.

If this isn't illegal, it's certainly unethical. Values.

Greenwood did not disclose the negotiations or step aside as subcommittee chairman until after he announced he would retire from Congress at the end of the term and take the job heading up the Biotechnology Industry Organization.

Greenwood said in an interview that his announcement that he was accepting the job was not connected with a two-month delay in a hearing in the antidepressant drug probe. The postponement was announced just before the job announcement in July.

"I am absolutely convinced I handled this in the most ethical manner possible," Greenwood said.




That, advocates of ethics reform say, is exactly the problem: Outdated rules do not cover present-day circumstances, and Congress has shown little appetite for changing the rules.

"They really need to clamp down and at least enforce the existing rules, but it's clear they will not do that," said Melanie Sloan of the Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington. "They just don't want to enforce the rules."

In Greenwood's case, four months after he announced he would take the industry job, the House ethics committee issued a memorandum advising members to be cautious in negotiating for future jobs. A nearly identical memo had been issued two years earlier.

"First and foremost," the new memo stated, "it would be improper for a member to permit the prospect of future employment to influence his or her official actions."

Greenwood said his official actions were not influenced by the job prospect.

In a similar case, Rep. W.J. "Billy" Tauzin, (R-La.), who helped oversee the pharmaceutical industry, will become president of the Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America on Monday, when he retires from Congress.

The chairman of the House Energy and Commerce Committee will earn more than $1 million a year in his new job.


When the House reconvenes early next month, it is expected to consider the changes proposed by its ethics panel. One would allow the use of campaign funds for cellphones and cars used in performing congressional duties.

The ethics panel is also recommending a rule to allow the issuance of subpoenas in the preliminary stages of an investigation. But the committee's leaders indicated in a letter to House Rules Committee Chairman David Dreier (R-San Dimas) that the change was intended not as a crackdown but as a method of ending inquiries more swiftly and quietly.

"Such matters could be handled far more expeditiously, and with greater assurance that confidentiality would be maintained, if the chairman and ranking minority member had the authority to issue subpoenas in such instances," said the letter from Republican Chairman Joel Hefley of Colorado and ranking Democrat Alan B. Mollohan of West Virginia.

Confidentiality rules governing the ethics committees are tight. The committees normally do not disclose the existence of inquiries unless they result in official action against a member, which rarely happens.

The DeLay case and events surrounding it indicate a new note of partisanship in the ethics process.

The move by House Republicans to eliminate the rule barring members under indictment from serving in the leadership came almost simultaneously with what some regarded as a retaliatory attack by the House ethics committee against outgoing U.S. Rep. Chris Bell, a Texas Democrat who had earlier filed a long list of ethics charges against DeLay.

As a result of Bell's charges, the ethics committee, within a matter of weeks, issued two admonishment letters to DeLay. Among other things, he was charged with enlisting the aid of a federal agency to track down political opponents in his home state.

But the ethics panel also sent a letter to Bell criticizing him for including allegations that were not substantiated.

Largely ignored by both the House and the Senate is the increasingly common practice of companies and interest groups making payments to relatives of influential legislators.

As reported by The Times earlier this year, for instance, Karen Weldon, the lobbyist daughter of U.S. Rep. Curt Weldon (R-Pa.), has earned about $1 million in fees from foreign clients her father has helped. The House ethics committee panel currently is considering the Weldon case.

In another case reported by The Times, the sister of U.S. Rep. Nick J. Rahall, (D-W.Va.) is earning $15,000 a month lobbying members of Congress, including her brother, for the tiny Persian Gulf country of Qatar. The Rahall and Weldon cases were two among several reported by The Times in which relatives of members of Congress engaged in lobbying activities.

Others include Sens. John B. Breaux (D-La.), Orrin Hatch (R-Utah), Ted Stevens (R-Alaska) and Reid. The Senate is scrutinizing business dealings involving members of Stevens' family and business partners whom, as The Times has reported, he helped.

In response to last year's Times stories, reform groups called for a crackdown on enforcement of existing rules, as well as steps to tighten restrictions on payments to relatives and in other matters.

Congress has thus far taken no action.

Ethics rules do not bar family members from engaging in lobbying. And they do not specifically bar members of Congress from helping those who employ their relatives.

Nor, said Celia Wexler, a lobbyist for Common Cause, do congressional ethics rules directly address a case like Greenwood's.

"We certainly think it is an unfortunate situation," Wexler said, noting Greenwood's reputation as a "good legislator."

More than a year ago, House ethics chairman Joel Hefley (R-Colo.) said he would assemble a panel of experts, including former House members, to revamp ethics rules.

He declined to discuss what happened to his plans, but his spokesperson, Sarah Shelden, said that a panel hadn't been assembled.


If Hefley has acted too slowly for reformers, his actions apparently were too independent for House Speaker J. Dennis Hastert (R-Ill.), who may remove him from the ethics committee.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/na...eadlines-nation
Bart Katz
[center]SPAM!![/CENTER]
csh
Confident that you all will have a prosperous New Year!

I am saddened by the Tsunami natural disaster in the Islands.
Apparently, many animals escaped to the higher ground.
The governments’ were fore warned.
Nevertheless, did not want to cause a panic.

This now is a great opportunity for the ‘big guns’ to move into the area.
The guns for drugs men will be looking at the disaster.
Like people flocking to a heinous murder site.
How much money did Jeb Bush get this past fall for the hurricanes/?

Do not forget…. There is a LARGE oil depository off the coast of Viet Nam.

Do not forget…That when Governments and Businesses want power and money people are just ‘collateral damage’ as coined during the early months of 2001 by the people in control of the US government.

Yes, I am very much saddened.




Bee
QUOTE(csh @ Dec 31 2004, 12:46 PM)
Confident that you all will have a prosperous New Year!

I am saddened by the Tsunami natural disaster in the Islands.
Apparently, many animals escaped to the higher ground.
The governments’ were fore warned.
Nevertheless, did not want to cause a panic.

This now is a great opportunity for the ‘big guns’ to move into the area.
The guns for drugs men will be looking at the disaster.
Like people flocking to a heinous murder site.
How much money did Jeb Bush get this past fall for the hurricanes/?

Do not forget…. There is a LARGE oil depository off the coast of Viet Nam.

Do not forget…That when Governments and Businesses want power and money people are just ‘collateral damage’ as coined during the early months of 2001 by the people in control of the US government.

Yes, I am very much saddened.
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I didn't know about the oil off Viet Nam, why do I suddenly get a sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach? Maybe flu.

Yes, it is very sad, indeed. You try to have a Happy New Year, csh.

davis¹³
QUOTE(Bart Katz @ Dec 31 2004, 08:09 AM)
[center]SPAM!![/CENTER]
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No, the gospel truth, whether you like it or not.

Nomarchy
Jim Haynes As a Stalking Horse In Torturegate:Why President Bush Renominated Him for A Federal Appellate Judgeship By JOHN W. DEAN Friday, Dec. 31, 2004

QUOTE
Recently, President Bush renominated twelve men and women whom he had previously nominated for federal appellate court judgeships. During Bush's first term, the Senate had refused to confirm any of the twelve - and had filibustered the nominations of seven. Now, Bush has asked the Senate to think again.

Bush is not the first president to resubmit judicial nominees. But he is the first to re-nominate seven who were blocked by Senate filibusters.

What is the thinking behind Bush's in-your-face strategy? I believe it is intended to test Senate Democrats in several ways - one obvious, and one much less so.

The first test is this: Will Democrats filibuster again - and risk having Republicans invoke the so-called "nuclear option" of rewriting the rules so a filibuster can be overridden? (I described this option in an earlier column.) If so, Democrats have opted to play a high-stakes game that could forever change the nomination process.

The second, subtler test is this: Will Democrats continue to oppose William J. "Jim" Haynes, currently the general counsel of the Department of Defense, to the point of filibustering his nomination if necessary?

It is the Haynes matter on which I will concentrate in this column.

Key Background: The Exchange of Letters Between Haynes and Leahy

To understand the nomination of Haynes, it's important to understand some key context. On June 2, 2003, the ranking Democrat on the Senate Judiciary Committee, Senator Patrick Leahy (D -VT), wrote to National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice, concerned about reports and rumors of prisoner abuse and torture.

On June 25, 2003, in his capacity as Defense Department General Counsel, Haynes responded -- assuring the Senator in an artfully worded letter that the Administration's "policy" was "to comply with all of its legal obligations in its treatment of detainees, and in particular with legal obligations prohibiting torture."

Seeking further specifics, Leahy wrote back to Haynes. But months went by with no response. Meanwhile, on September 29, 2003, Hayes was nominated for a seat on the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit. Haynes's confirmation hearing was scheduled for November 19, 2003.

Late at night, on the eve of the hearing, Senator Leahy received a letter -- not from Haynes but a subordinate. "That letter was completely unresponsive to my questions," Senator Leahy said. He also complained that earlier assurances Haynes had given to him and others "were not true." As a result, Senate Democrats tried to put the brakes on Haynes's nomination.

Blocking The Haynes Nomination: How and Why Democrats Did It

Haynes had a thin resume for an appointment to the U.S. Court of Appeals. Yet Republicans forced the nomination through the Senate Judiciary Committee on a straight party vote, with all ten of the Committee's Republicans approving. (Three Democrats voted against the Haynes nomination; six passed.)

Democrats asked to reopen Haynes's confirmation hearing. But the Republicans refused to do so. Nevertheless, the media, at least, pursued the case against Haynes.

The New York Times described Haynes as "an architect of some of the Bush administration's most unenlightened policies" and opposed his confirmation. Senator Teddy Kennedy, laying out the case against Haynes in The Washington Post, said, "Nominations do not get much worse than this." And after CBS News revealed the Abu Ghraib photographs of American soldiers abusing Iraqi prisoners, the Wall Street Journal reported that even Senate Republicans believed Haynes's "chances for confirmation were slim."

In late May 2004, Senate Democrats and the White House struck a deal to clear the way for votes on some twenty-five of the less controversial judicial nominees. Haynes, however, was left behind.

The Torture Memoranda: They Emerged After Haynes's First Nomination

At the time, Haynes's - and others' - infamous memoranda on torture had not yet surfaced. When they did, they proved to be as shocking to lawyers as the Abu Ghraib photos had been to the general public.

There is no question that this country faces a difficult enemy: terrorists who don't fight by the rules of war. But no one could have expected this country's top government lawyers to respond to that reality by claiming that the Geneva Conventions and other international treaties to which the U.S. is a party - as well as related federal statutes -- simply do not bind the President at all.

After all, Haynes had specifically assured Senator Leahy, in so many words, in his letter, that the U.S. recognized its obligation to "conduct[] interrogations in a manner that is consistent with the Convention Against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman, or Degrading Treatment or Punishment (CAT)" and "the Federal anti-torture statute," which implements CAT.

Plainly, the case in favor of Haynes's nomination - extremely poor even before the torture memoranda came before the public eye - is now appallingly poor. So why in the world is Bush renominating Haynes?

There are two possibilities: One may be that Haynes is such a poor nominee, Democrats will feel they have no choice but to filibuster and thus invite the "nuclear option."

Another is that Bush is stealing a page from Nixon's strategy book, and "pricking the boil" - that is, seeking to defuse a festering scandal. The scandal, of course, is Torturegate. "I think we've got to prick that goddamn boil. And take the heat," Nixon would say. Perhaps Bush, behind closed doors, is saying the same thing.

"Pricking the Boil": Can Bush Control and Thus Survive Torturegate?

Here's the key: Torturegate isn't just about Haynes.

It's also about the former assistant attorney general, of the Office of Legal Counsel, Jay Bybee - now on the federal bench. Bybee stonewalled his way through his confirmation hearings. But now that the memos are out, there is a good case for Bybee's impeachment: He counseled the President to ignore the law.

More to the point, it is also about Alberto Gonzales -- heading for confirmation hearings for his Attorney General nomination. Perhaps Bush hopes that if Torturegate plays itself out in these nominations, it will end the scandal before it gets worse. After all, why bore viewers with the "same" issues they've already seen exhaustively debated?

Haynes, then, may prove to be a stalking horse, a clay pigeon, or a fall guy - choose your metaphor - for Torturegate. Of course, Haynes is entirely blameworthy too. Depending on which nomination proceeds first - Gonzales's or Haynes's - either nominee could cost the other his job (as well as costing himself his own). And this stalking horse business is risky.

The Parallel to Nixon: Attempting to Take the Steam Out of a Scandal

The "pricking the boil" strategy didn't work in the Nixon Administration. Let's hope it doesn't work here, either.

During the Watergate investigation, Pat Gray had been acting director of the FBI. He was actually proud of his work. (No doubt Haynes and Gonzales are proud of theirs, too.) To try to take away some of the steam of Watergate, Nixon nominated Pat Gray to head the FBI.

He knew it would be a bloody partisan battle: Democrats controlled the Senate. But he still thought the nomination would help, for, as he wrote in his diary at the time, "At least getting Gray before the committee he can tell a pretty good story."

No doubt Haynes and Gonzales are good storytellers as well. There's one problem, though: Gray's testimony only stoked the fires, and theirs may, as well..

But Bush, like Nixon, is a gambler. If his strategy succeeds, he can control the scandal over his use of torture in the war on terror. If it fails, war crimes are as ugly as it gets.

Bart Katz
John "the fink" Dean? laugh.gif laugh.gif
Art.
Somebody had to hire the weasel of watergate.

http://www.insightmag.com/main.cfm/include...yid/212530.html

Liddy, who spent 52 months in prison for his role in the Watergate burglary, vows he won't let Dean walk away from the suit. He gave explicit instructions to his attorney not to negotiate any settlement. "I want a trial," Liddy tells Insight. "I want all of this to come out - that Dean is a serial perjurer." Liddy doesn't back down about his characterization of Maureen either. "She was known to the vice squad, and the address book from Phillip Mackin Bailley contained her name and the nickname `Clout,' - a code name used in the call-girl ring," Liddy alleges. He adds that for Dean to file the suit was a major mistake because it only brought out more information about Dean's wife. "It was a foolish thing to do and a rotten thing to do to Mrs. Dean," he says.........


Even Dean's own words in his best-selling book Blind Ambition are being used in Colodny's motion to portray Dean as a liar. In his book, Dean claims Liddy told him that the White House knew about the break-in - a critical difference that could have altered the Watergate investigation. But, in sworn testimony before the Senate Watergate Committee, Dean claimed Liddy told him no one from the White House knew about the burglary plan.

Dean since has publicly stated that his own book is inaccurate because he didn't have a chance to read it before it was published. He explains that his wife wouldn't let him use a pen to mark corrections when he was in bed because he had left an ink spot on the sheets during another reading session.

The motion also details the infamous "enemies list" that Dean insisted was not his doing. But White House records submitted in the motion indicate that Dean suggested creation of a list of 10 enemies with a recommendation that he be one of the people assigned to the "screw the enemy project."
Nomarchy
QUOTE(Arturo_Vandelay @ Jan 1 2005, 01:39 PM)
Somebody had to hire the weasel of watergate.

http://www.insightmag.com/main.cfm/include...yid/212530.html

Liddy, who spent 52 months in prison for his role in the Watergate burglary, vows he won't let Dean walk away from the suit. He gave explicit instructions to his attorney not to negotiate any settlement. "I want a trial," Liddy tells Insight. "I want all of this to come out - that Dean is a serial perjurer." Liddy doesn't back down about his characterization of Maureen either. "She was known to the vice squad, and the address book from Phillip Mackin Bailley contained her name and the nickname `Clout,' - a code name used in the call-girl ring," Liddy alleges. He adds that for Dean to file the suit was a major mistake because it only brought out more information about Dean's wife. "It was a foolish thing to do and a rotten thing to do to Mrs. Dean," he says.........
Even Dean's own words in his best-selling book Blind Ambition are being used in Colodny's motion to portray Dean as a liar. In his book, Dean claims Liddy told him that the White House knew about the break-in - a critical difference that could have altered the Watergate investigation. But, in sworn testimony before the Senate Watergate Committee, Dean claimed Liddy told him no one from the White House knew about the burglary plan.

Dean since has publicly stated that his own book is inaccurate because he didn't have a chance to read it before it was published. He explains that his wife wouldn't let him use a pen to mark corrections when he was in bed because he had left an ink spot on the sheets during another reading session.

The motion also details the infamous "enemies list" that Dean insisted was not his doing. But White House records submitted in the motion indicate that Dean suggested creation of a list of 10 enemies with a recommendation that he be one of the people assigned to the "screw the enemy project."
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Fabulous. How does it affect his analysis of the particulars in this case?
Art.
QUOTE(Nomarchy @ Jan 1 2005, 01:42 PM)
Fabulous. How does it affect his analysis of the particulars in this case?
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Probably makes it hard to type with those little weasel paws.

If he has to admit his own book is inaccurate because his wife won't let him mark in bed I think I'll pass on his written analysis.
Nomarchy
QUOTE(Arturo_Vandelay @ Jan 1 2005, 01:48 PM)
Probably makes it hard to type with those little weasel paws.

If he has to admit his own book is inaccurate because his wife won't let him mark in bed I think I'll pass on his written analysis.
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I am certain you read it, though, as part of your quest to amass information and analyses from as many different perspectives as possible, right?
Art.
QUOTE(Nomarchy @ Jan 1 2005, 02:07 PM)
I am certain you read it, though, as part of your quest to amass information and analyses from as many different perspectives as possible, right?
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Sure, I read both of your Dean articles. Even looked at Findlaw's discussion board, but no mention of Dean's pieces on the link.
Nomarchy
QUOTE(Arturo_Vandelay @ Jan 1 2005, 02:19 PM)
Sure, I read both of your Dean articles. Even looked at Findlaw's discussion board, but no mention of Dean's pieces on the link.
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All is well, then, AFAIC.
Bart Katz
We know Mr Dean from waaay back. Probably before some of you was even borned.
Nomarchy
QUOTE(Bart Katz @ Jan 1 2005, 03:02 PM)
We know Mr Dean from waaay back.  Probably before some of you was even borned.
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Do you know him from before 1996?
Bart Katz
QUOTE(Nomarchy @ Jan 1 2005, 04:05 PM)
Do you know him from before 1996?
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Yessir. He's an old Akron homeboy.
Nomarchy
QUOTE(Bart Katz @ Jan 1 2005, 03:07 PM)
Yessir.  He's an old Akron homeboy.
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Kewl. So, what's your take on his analysis? Is it basically sheit?
Bart Katz
QUOTE(Nomarchy @ Jan 1 2005, 04:11 PM)
Kewl. So, what's your take on his analysis? Is it basically sheit?
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I try to stay away from anything he writes or when he appears on TV. We just never thought much of the boy.
Nomarchy
QUOTE(Bart Katz @ Jan 1 2005, 03:12 PM)
I try to stay away from anything he writes or when he appears on TV.  We just never thought much of the boy.
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Fair enough. I'll keep that in mind.
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