House Republicans Move to Protect Their Leader
By CARL HULSE and DAVID E. ROSENBAUM
Published: November 17, 2004
WASHINGTON, Nov. 16 - Fresh from election gains, House Republicans moved Tuesday to consider a change in party rules that would prevent their majority leader, Tom DeLay, from having to step down from his leadership position should he be indicted in an investigation in Texas.
As House and Senate members returned to finish remaining business for this year and organize for 2005, an aide to Representative Henry Bonilla, Republican of Texas, said Mr. Bonilla had filed a proposal to overturn a Republican rule that requires a member of the leadership to step down temporarily if facing a felony indictment.
Party lawmakers could take up the proposal on Wednesday.
Republicans adopted the rule in the 1990's, when they were in the minority and were trying to put the focus on investigations of prominent Democrats. They say a rule change is justified because the investigation involving Mr. DeLay, who was re-elected majority leader on Tuesday, is politically inspired.
The Republicans say they want to eliminate the chance for a prosecutor to be able to force Mr. DeLay from his post by obtaining an indictment.
"Congressman Bonilla's rule change is designed to prevent political manipulation of the legislative process," Taryn Fritz Walpole, a spokeswoman for the lawmaker, said.
Ms. Walpole said she did not have the specifics of the plan.
Mr. DeLay's office said he was not taking a stand on the initiative, which his fellow Republicans discussed in a party conference. "The majority leader believes members of the conference should come to their own conclusions on this issue and that the conference should work its will without his exerting undue influence one way or the other," his communications director, Stuart Roy, said.
House Democrats said the potential change reflected the opposition's view on ethical behavior.
"If Republicans believe that an indicted member should be allowed to hold a top leadership position in the House of Representatives, their arrogance is astonishing," the House minority leader, Nancy Pelosi of California, said in a statement.
Mr. DeLay received back-to-back admonishments by the House Ethics Committee in the weeks before the election, angering some House allies who said the findings were political even though the panel was bipartisan. As the architect of disputed redistricting in Texas that toppled five Democratic incumbents, Mr. DeLay was instrumental in House Republicans' gaining a handful of seats on Nov. 2.
The investigation in Austin has resulted in the indictments of three allies of Mr. DeLay and several companies accused of illegally using corporate campaign contributions to help Republicans win state legislative seats, a move that cleared the way for redistricting.
As House Republicans dealt with that question, Senate Democrats officially chose new leadership to steer them through the more heavily Republican Congress.
And a veteran Senate Republican battled to save his chairmanship in a first test of new conservative power.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/17/politics/17cong.html
Full Version: Ethics/Values in politics
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Tom Delay has more "values" than most politicians in Washington.
And that's a fact jack and funny to boot!!
And that's a fact jack and funny to boot!!
QUOTE (underhi2p @ Nov 17 2004, 09:17 AM)
Tom Delay has more "values" than most politicians in Washington.
Sure, if you count cash.
QUOTE (SpaceCowboy @ Nov 17 2004, 08:24 AM)
Sure, if you count cash.
I wonder why he keeps calling me asking for money.
QUOTE
Tom Delay has more "values" than most politicians in Washington.
And that's a fact jack and funny to boot!!
And that's a fact jack and funny to boot!!
Well I guess I just don't know what your definition of "values" is.
It must be pretty god damned twisted.
It's appropriate that you started this thread, davey-do, because the entire brouhaha (and it should be one) belongs to the Ministry of Irony & Vice. Of course they should establish special rules for DeLay, just like he established special redistricting to bolster the House Majority.
Can I borrow JT's word?
Can I borrow JT's word?
Compared to this guy, Tom Delay is a saint.
QUOTE (underhi2p @ Nov 17 2004, 12:32 PM)
Compared to this guy, Tom Delay is a saint.
World class crook there.
Uh... as much as you'd like, this isn't about that corrupt idiot, it's about our own corrupt idiot.
DeLay is quite possibly the most crooked, unethical man in Congress.
Did you know he used an abused childrens' charity to shelter Republican campaign contributions? Bribing on the House floor?
How low does this maggot have to go before one ethical Christian Republican politician demands accountability?
You call this "values"?
Is there even one among them with enough honesty and integrity to do what is right?
DeLay is quite possibly the most crooked, unethical man in Congress.
Did you know he used an abused childrens' charity to shelter Republican campaign contributions? Bribing on the House floor?
How low does this maggot have to go before one ethical Christian Republican politician demands accountability?
You call this "values"?
Is there even one among them with enough honesty and integrity to do what is right?
QUOTE (davis¹³ @ Nov 17 2004, 04:46 PM)
DeLay is quite possibly the most crooked, unethical man in Congress.
Hardly.
Whitey Byrd, Paddy Leahy, Splash Kennedy, Bustaveininmyforehead Hatch, Big Wad Kerry, Tommie "I'm outta here!!" Daschle all make Delay look like a saint.
Ya see, we've set our standards so high with these wonders, that it becomes acceptable for folks like Delay to do what they do.
We must maintain the status quo!!!
QUOTE
The vote changes a decade-old rule passed when Republicans wanted to draw attention to the questionable ethics of such powerful Democrats as former Illinois Rep. Dan Rostenkowski, who eventually pleaded guilty to mail fraud and was sentenced to prison.
Connecticut Rep. Christopher Shays, one of the few Republicans to openly oppose the rule change, said it was a return to ``business as usual.''
``If you are a cop, a judge, a prosecutor, and you are indicted, you step down,'' he said, adding that Congress should follow similar standards.
http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/news/news-congress-delay.html
Connecticut Rep. Christopher Shays, one of the few Republicans to openly oppose the rule change, said it was a return to ``business as usual.''
``If you are a cop, a judge, a prosecutor, and you are indicted, you step down,'' he said, adding that Congress should follow similar standards.
http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/news/news-congress-delay.html
Never been a big fan of Shays, but he did my lttle state proud today. He mentioned (on NPR this evening) that he was aware his "no" vote would probably hurt him in his senority position appointments. However, he said he weighed that power against doing what was right, and decided doing what was right was more important. Would that more Republicans had his conscience. I think he got a lot of heat over his pathetic "party line" agressive stance in the intelligence committee. He did not have an easy race this last time out, either. Could be contributing factors, yet still a brave stance...considering.
So.
The Republicans created theis rule--as I recall--because they were more "ethical" and wanted to prove that they were "different" (as in better.)
My, How the worm turns
Their own hypocrisy must be beginning to sicken them, I hope that there a lot more "Shays moves" in the house. Perhaps there will be. Flip-flop?
Oh my!
"Values" my foot.
I have to find out how LaHood voted. I don't really even have to look. If you want any projects for your district you cooperate with that fargin piece of crap DeLay or he'll fork you good.
A fine example of the US evangelical corporate Christian whore, who is an expert in "situational ethics".
Greed, lust and coveting the world are sins too.
I have to find out how LaHood voted. I don't really even have to look. If you want any projects for your district you cooperate with that fargin piece of crap DeLay or he'll fork you good.
A fine example of the US evangelical corporate Christian whore, who is an expert in "situational ethics".
Greed, lust and coveting the world are sins too.
QUOTE
I hope that there a lot more "Shays moves" in the house.
Dream on, it's very, very profitable if you cooperate.
QUOTE
The backing for DeLay "took on a life of its own; it was like a tsunami," Rep. Ray Lahood, R-Ill., said in comparing Republican support to a large sea wave.
Lahood, elected with the 1994 Republican class that captured control of the House, opposed the change but understood the outpouring of support.
"It was the result of the fact that he increased our numbers, he takes care of members when they need legislation passed, his fund raising and, in Texas, his drawing people a good district," LaHood said.
There is no indication DeLay will be indicted by an Austin grand jury in a probe led by a Democratic prosecutor, Ronnie Earle. In September, however, grand jurors indicted three DeLay associates and eight corporations in an investigation of allegedly illegal corporate contributions to a political action committee associated with DeLay.
DeLay is known as "the hammer." He hammers liberals. He hammers Democrats. He hammers out majorities for legislation. In September, the House ethics committee concluded he overdid his efforts of persuasion offering to support the House candidacy of a lawmaker's son in return for a vote in favor of a Medicare prescription drug benefit.
Lahood, elected with the 1994 Republican class that captured control of the House, opposed the change but understood the outpouring of support.
"It was the result of the fact that he increased our numbers, he takes care of members when they need legislation passed, his fund raising and, in Texas, his drawing people a good district," LaHood said.
There is no indication DeLay will be indicted by an Austin grand jury in a probe led by a Democratic prosecutor, Ronnie Earle. In September, however, grand jurors indicted three DeLay associates and eight corporations in an investigation of allegedly illegal corporate contributions to a political action committee associated with DeLay.
DeLay is known as "the hammer." He hammers liberals. He hammers Democrats. He hammers out majorities for legislation. In September, the House ethics committee concluded he overdid his efforts of persuasion offering to support the House candidacy of a lawmaker's son in return for a vote in favor of a Medicare prescription drug benefit.
It's called a BRIBE, you assshole.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=262040
QUOTE (underhi2p @ Nov 17 2004, 11:32 AM)
Compared to this guy, Tom Delay is a saint.
Oh, shut the fark up! Kofi Annan is not a crook, and there is no Oil-for-Food scandal. EVERYTHING that went on during that period was done with the full knowledge of the Security Council and its approval. Both we and the U.K. are permanent members thereof.
You dumbfarks . . . defending DeLay . . .
QUOTE
You dumbfarks . . . defending DeLay . . .
It takes quite a hypocrite with a hole in their values system the size of a Cadillac to defend DeLay.
More distraction, more deflection.
Baffle them with bullshiit.
QUOTE
BECOMING PIGS: The Republican attempt to change the rules they once supported in favor of keeping Tom DeLay in his leadership post is a revealing turning point. It's that Orwellian moment when you realize that ten years after the Republicans pledged to overturn the self-serving corruption and complacency of the majority Democrats, they have become indistinguishable from the people they once targeted.
http://andrewsullivan.com/index.php?switch...=dish_blog.html
http://andrewsullivan.com/index.php?switch...=dish_blog.html
You tell 'em, Andrew.
QUOTE (Nomarchy @ Nov 18 2004, 09:25 AM)
Oh, shut the fark up! Kofi Annan is not a crook, and there is no Oil-for-Food scandal. EVERYTHING that went on during that period was done with the full knowledge of the Security Council and its approval. Both we and the U.K. are permanent members thereof.
You dumbfarks . . . defending DeLay . . .
You dumbfarks . . . defending DeLay . . .
"It happened on his watch".
QUOTE (SpaceCowboy @ Nov 18 2004, 09:44 AM)
You tell 'em, Andrew.
"they have become indistinguishable from the people they once targeted."
Hmm, they seem to wear better suits.
QUOTE (Bart Katz @ Nov 18 2004, 08:47 AM)
"It happened on his watch".
It happened with the full knowledge and authorization of the Security Council, of which the USA and UK are permanent, veto-wielding, members.
QUOTE (Nomarchy @ Nov 18 2004, 01:02 PM)
It happened with the full knowledge and authorization of the Security Council, of which the USA and UK are permanent, veto-wielding, members.
The US judged, that on balance, the sanctions served its interest.
QUOTE (Nomarchy @ Nov 18 2004, 02:02 PM)
It happened with the full knowledge and authorization of the Security Council, of which the USA and UK are permanent, veto-wielding, members.
I can't believe you are defending this world class crook.
QUOTE (G.G. @ Nov 18 2004, 12:00 PM)
DeLay is right down there with the pests he used to exterminate. This is another trumped up 'scandal' to divert attention from the fiasco in Iraq. Imo, they can't create enought scandals to divert the eye from that mess.
At least Tony Coelho had the decency to resign when he was caught taking bribe money from a Savings & Loan.
QUOTE (underhi2p @ Nov 18 2004, 11:46 AM)
I can't believe you are defending this world class crook.
Listen, asswipe, quit defending DeLay. You have a long history of defending crooks, starting with the Enron etc. "geniuses'. Shut the fark up.
Kofi Annan is not a crook. Not everyone is like the inner-circle of the Bush II Administration.
QUOTE (Nomarchy @ Nov 18 2004, 03:36 PM)
Listen, asswipe, quit defending DeLay. You have a long history of defending crooks, starting with the Enron etc. "geniuses'. Shut the fark up.
Kofi Annan is not a crook. Not everyone is like the inner-circle of the Bush II Administration.
Kofi Annan is not a crook. Not everyone is like the inner-circle of the Bush II Administration.
OK farknut.
As soon as you stop defending the one of the biggest crooks in the world, Kofi Annan, I'll stop pointing out that Delay isn't nearly the corrupt farknut as some of our select elite douchebag Senators such as Splash Kennedy, Whitey Byrd, et al.
Deal?
QUOTE (underhi2p @ Nov 18 2004, 12:46 PM)
I can't believe you are defending this world class crook.
Well, it's the UN. The HAU crowd will always side with almost anyone besides the US.
QUOTE (G.G. @ Nov 18 2004, 01:00 PM)
DeLay is right down there with the pests he used to exterminate. This is another trumped up 'scandal' to divert attention from the fiasco in Iraq. Imo, they can't create enought scandals to divert the eye from that mess.
Truth be known, DeLay was probably the moving force behind the entire Oil For Food scandal. I bet he even has access to Saddam's bank accounts.
QUOTE (Nomarchy @ Nov 18 2004, 01:36 PM)
Listen, asswipe, quit defending DeLay. You have a long history of defending crooks, starting with the Enron etc. "geniuses'. Shut the fark up.
Kofi Annan is not a crook. Not everyone is like the inner-circle of the Bush II Administration.
Kofi Annan is not a crook. Not everyone is like the inner-circle of the Bush II Administration.
You don't tell anyone who to defend or not defend. Annan is a way bigger crook, on a world class scale, than Delay could even think about being.
QUOTE (Bart Katz @ Nov 18 2004, 05:05 PM)
You don't tell anyone who to defend or not defend. Annan is a way bigger crook, on a world class scale, than Delay could even think about being.
I get to tell anyone whatever the fark I want.
You're a way bigger a-hole than anyone else.
QUOTE (underhi2p @ Nov 18 2004, 01:08 PM)
OK farknut.
As soon as you stop defending the one of the biggest crooks in the world, Kofi Annan, I'll stop pointing out that Delay isn't nearly the corrupt farknut as some of our select elite douchebag Senators such as Splash Kennedy, Whitey Byrd, et al.
Deal?
As soon as you stop defending the one of the biggest crooks in the world, Kofi Annan, I'll stop pointing out that Delay isn't nearly the corrupt farknut as some of our select elite douchebag Senators such as Splash Kennedy, Whitey Byrd, et al.
Deal?
No, no deal.
QUOTE (Nomarchy @ Nov 18 2004, 06:10 PM)
I get to tell anyone whatever the fark I want.
You're a way bigger a-hole than anyone else.
You're a way bigger a-hole than anyone else.
Than anyone else what?
ROFL
cowards
cowards
QUOTE
A short note about the vote. The DeLay Rule vote, that is.
A number of congressmen (no congresswomen yet) are now telling their constituents that there's no question to answer because the DeLay Rule never came to a vote. (Staffers from Congressmen Tom Davis and Tom Feeney offices have both used this line, according to TPM readers.)
Nice try.
As we noted earlier, the rule was put to a voice-vote in the GOP caucus meeting. That means they asked for yeas and nays. And the yeas had it.
So it's true that there was no recorded vote. So there's no truly definitive way to know one way or another what a particular representative did unless they conspicuously said one thing or another and other members saw them say it.
All we really have to go on is how they say they voted.
Based on published accounts of members in the meeting, the number of 'nays' has been described as anything between a "handful" of members to between 30 and 50.
As we've already noted, it seems there are more members who now claim to have been in the Shays Handful than anyone saw voting 'nea' at the meeting. But what can you do?
In any case, the relevant point is that there was a vote. It wasn't recorded. There's no official tally. But everyone who was there was asked to say yea or nea. Why shouldn't they be willing tell their constituents what they said?
One final note: If your member of congress tells you there wasn't a vote, ask them whether those in the Shays Handful are lying when they say they voted against it.
-- Josh Marshall
A number of congressmen (no congresswomen yet) are now telling their constituents that there's no question to answer because the DeLay Rule never came to a vote. (Staffers from Congressmen Tom Davis and Tom Feeney offices have both used this line, according to TPM readers.)
Nice try.
As we noted earlier, the rule was put to a voice-vote in the GOP caucus meeting. That means they asked for yeas and nays. And the yeas had it.
So it's true that there was no recorded vote. So there's no truly definitive way to know one way or another what a particular representative did unless they conspicuously said one thing or another and other members saw them say it.
All we really have to go on is how they say they voted.
Based on published accounts of members in the meeting, the number of 'nays' has been described as anything between a "handful" of members to between 30 and 50.
As we've already noted, it seems there are more members who now claim to have been in the Shays Handful than anyone saw voting 'nea' at the meeting. But what can you do?
In any case, the relevant point is that there was a vote. It wasn't recorded. There's no official tally. But everyone who was there was asked to say yea or nea. Why shouldn't they be willing tell their constituents what they said?
One final note: If your member of congress tells you there wasn't a vote, ask them whether those in the Shays Handful are lying when they say they voted against it.
-- Josh Marshall
Ain't it the truth?
Ethically Challenged Republicans
Yeah, the 'immoral' majority.
QUOTE
Rep John Dingell (D-MI) on Majority Leader Tom DeLay (TX-R): "These folks talk about values and decency, but then think it’s okay to change the rules once it appears one of their own may have broken them. This amounts to a work release program for the ethically challenged. We should all remember that a decade ago, Mr. DeLay helped to create this rule. Republicans said at the time they were the party of reform and good government. Now they’ve become the party of moribund hubris."
Ethically Challenged Republicans
Yeah, the 'immoral' majority.
I really hate that unfurled finger of farkyou foto.
QUOTE (lil bart @ Nov 18 2004, 06:35 PM)
I really hate that unfurled finger of farkyou foto.
Yeah. What if someoneis at work and opens that page, and the boss sees it?
QUOTE (Bart Katz @ Nov 18 2004, 04:46 PM)
Yeah. What if someoneis at work and opens that page, and the boss sees it?
Yeah, whata if I had a job??!! As of now, it offends my delicate sensibilities. I've found that people do not take well even to joking "eff offs."
QUOTE (lil bart @ Nov 18 2004, 06:05 PM)
Yeah, whata if I had a job??!! As of now, it offends my delicate sensibilities. I've found that people do not take well even to joking "eff offs."
What makes you think I give a rat's ass if Bart, underhi or a.v. "do not take well even to joking 'eff offs'"?
davis, you have to check out Josh Marshall on this.
I guess he's trying to get these lily-livered, 'situational' moralists to own up on the vote.
It's a hoot considering...
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/...1_14.php#004027
I guess he's trying to get these lily-livered, 'situational' moralists to own up on the vote.
It's a hoot considering...
QUOTE
We've been getting conflicting word throughout the day on how Minnesota's Mark Kennedy voted on the DeLay Rule.
This morning his staffers said they didn't know how he voted. Later he was a letter-writer. Later still we heard they were saying it was 'closed vote' and the 'no vote was taken' line.
The last TPM reader who got through to the congressman's office was told that the vote was by "unanimous consent", which should come as some surprise to those in the Shays Handful, who say they voted against it.
-- Josh Marshall
This morning his staffers said they didn't know how he voted. Later he was a letter-writer. Later still we heard they were saying it was 'closed vote' and the 'no vote was taken' line.
The last TPM reader who got through to the congressman's office was told that the vote was by "unanimous consent", which should come as some surprise to those in the Shays Handful, who say they voted against it.
-- Josh Marshall
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/...1_14.php#004027
QUOTE (lil bart @ Nov 18 2004, 07:05 PM)
Yeah, whata if I had a job??!! As of now, it offends my delicate sensibilities. I've found that people do not take well even to joking "eff offs."
On the IS 300 boards, stuff like that has to be labeled NWS.
QUOTE (Nomarchy @ Nov 18 2004, 07:20 PM)
What makes you think I give a rat's ass if Bart, underhi or a.v. "do not take well even to joking 'eff offs'"?
Keep adding to your list and maybe it will be more inclusive. Looks like Little Bart has now weighed in on your obscene pic.
Keep up the great "intellectual" stuff, and you too could become another "mizilus" woowoo.
QUOTE (Nomarchy @ Nov 18 2004, 05:20 PM)
What makes you think I give a rat's ass if Bart, underhi or a.v. "do not take well even to joking 'eff offs'"?
What makes you think Bart, Under or AV's sensibilities were my point? I was quite clear that they were mine. The generality was an afterthought, but note: that said "even joking," which also would not apply here.
QUOTE
A little side note on the DeLay Rule vote.
If we can go by comments released by congressional offices, quite a substantial number of Republican members of congress happened to have stepped out of the room (to get food, go to the bathroom, attend to constituent business, etc.) right about the time they did the voice vote on the DeLay Rule.
Illinois's Tim Johnson, for instance, just couldn't make it. He was there for most of the meeting but had to step out for a "constituent meeting," according to TPM readers who've called his congressional office. He has no official position on the DeLay Rule at all.
Presumably they still had a quorum.
-- Josh Marshall
If we can go by comments released by congressional offices, quite a substantial number of Republican members of congress happened to have stepped out of the room (to get food, go to the bathroom, attend to constituent business, etc.) right about the time they did the voice vote on the DeLay Rule.
Illinois's Tim Johnson, for instance, just couldn't make it. He was there for most of the meeting but had to step out for a "constituent meeting," according to TPM readers who've called his congressional office. He has no official position on the DeLay Rule at all.
Presumably they still had a quorum.
-- Josh Marshall
I am not surprised.
QUOTE (underhi2p @ Nov 18 2004, 07:34 PM)
Does Bob have a kitty?
QUOTE (lil bart @ Nov 18 2004, 06:25 PM)
What makes you think Bart, Under or AV's sensibilities were my point? I was quite clear that they were mine. The generality was an afterthought, but note: that said "even joking," which also would not apply here.
Well, I am glad I waited to say this:
I don't give a flying fark if your tender sensibilities are offended.
QUOTE (Bart Katz @ Nov 18 2004, 06:23 PM)
Keep adding to your list and maybe it will be more inclusive. Looks like Little Bart has now weighed in on your obscene pic.
Keep up the great "intellectual" stuff, and you too could become another "mizilus" woowoo.
Keep up the great "intellectual" stuff, and you too could become another "mizilus" woowoo.
My "intellectual" stuff is wasted on shithead dogmatic partisans.
QUOTE (Nomarchy @ Nov 18 2004, 08:12 PM)
My "intellectual" stuff is wasted on shithead dogmatic partisans.
Mebbe you ought to find some place what appreciates you.
QUOTE (Bart Katz @ Nov 18 2004, 07:17 PM)
Mebbe you ought to find some place what appreciates you.
I said nothing about the place. Or all of its members.
QUOTE (Nomarchy @ Nov 18 2004, 08:20 PM)
I said nothing about the place. Or all of its members.
Who the hell doesn't know that this place is full of shithead dogmatic paritsans?
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