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Bart Katz
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lil bart
QUOTE(Arturo_Vandelay @ Apr 16 2005, 11:01 PM)
GADZOOKS

That picture almost brought up dinner and I'm watching emergency surgery on Discovery Health.
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She didn't get where she was by looks alone. Though truly you had to wonder -- or I did -- how much it played a part. huh.gif
Arturo_Vandelay
Being big and scary can be effective sometimes. Sometimes not. When my friends an I were trying to get a court the other day we had to choose somebody to beg the coach to let us in at the far end away from the HS girls tennis match. They wouldn't let me go because I'm "too scary". sad.gif
lil bart
Ah heck, AV, we coulda tole 'em that. laugh.gif
Human Ills
Ahem.

PEACE has been declared.
I found someone really cool.

I guess Barta was right, after all.
SpaceCowboy
QUOTE(Human Ills @ Apr 18 2005, 10:09 AM)
Ahem.

PEACE has been declared.
I found someone really cool.

I guess Barta was right, after all.
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Nomarchy
QUOTE(Human Ills @ Apr 18 2005, 08:09 AM)
Ahem.

PEACE has been declared.
I found someone really cool.

I guess Barta was right, after all.
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Well, good for you on the second sentence, and that's pathetic on the first. :-)

Dude, projection is a bad thing.

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Arturo_Vandelay
QUOTE(Human Ills @ Apr 18 2005, 09:09 AM)
Ahem.

PEACE has been declared.
I found someone really cool.

I guess Barta was right, after all.
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I hope this isn't situational. Remember today when you have your first fight.
Arturo_Vandelay
Nothing like a running flame war that runs people off and inflames everyone followed by a "never mind".
Nomarchy
QUOTE(Arturo_Vandelay @ Apr 18 2005, 09:21 AM)
Nothing like a running flame war that runs people off and inflames everyone followed by a "never mind".
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Agreed. And kudos on the neat alliterations (I think that's the correct spelling).
Arturo_Vandelay
Without a spellcheck we don't count off for spelling anymore. smile.gif

Actually I HATED using run and flame twice, but it's just the way it had to be. I got nasty notes for Mill's he-man woman hating, lost a good poster for not interfering, and now he's gonna run off and live happily ever after with one of 'em?

Nice work Alfalfa.

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Human Ills
QUOTE(Arturo_Vandelay @ Apr 18 2005, 09:06 AM)
I hope this isn't situational. Remember today when you have your first fight.
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10-4.

lil bart
QUOTE(Arturo_Vandelay @ Apr 18 2005, 10:29 AM)
Without a spellcheck we don't count off for spelling anymore. smile.gif

Actually I HATED using run and flame twice, but it's just the way it had to be. I got nasty notes for Mill's he-man woman hating, lost a good poster for not interfering, and now he's gonna run off and live happily ever after with one of 'em?

                                    Nice work Alfalfa.

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Nice work, Arturo. laugh.gif

Like Lisa S asked: how can something suck & blow at the same time?

Millness has the biggest sincerest patent phony on site all along. How can someone be sincere & phony at the same time? How can something suck & blow at the same time? rolleyes.gif

Happy for ya, Millness.

I best just leave it there. cool.gif
Arturo_Vandelay
Now I wanna hear about how great love is and the benefits of the opposite sex. Unless Mill gets whipped and ain't allowed to come out and play.
lil bart
QUOTE(Arturo_Vandelay @ Apr 18 2005, 11:47 AM)
Now I wanna hear about how great love is and the benefits of the opposite sex. Unless Mill gets whipped and ain't allowed to come out and play.
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Let's hope that, either way, discretion proves the better part of valor. wink.gif laugh.gif
Arturo_Vandelay
I left it so people can delete their own messes just for such occassions.
Human Ills
ROFL. I haven't changed. Women CAN suck. This one doesn't. She's one of the good ones.

Whatever people, just thought you might be a little happy for me.
Human Ills
QUOTE(Arturo_Vandelay @ Apr 18 2005, 09:21 AM)
Nothing like a running flame war that runs people off and inflames everyone followed by a "never mind".
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IOW the PEACE has been declared post was tongue in cheek. I figured you guys knew me by now.
I just wanted to share with y'all, and this seemed like it would be the funniest thread in which to do so.
Arturo_Vandelay
QUOTE(Human Ills @ Apr 18 2005, 12:26 PM)
ROFL. I haven't changed. Women CAN suck. This one doesn't. She's one of the good ones.

Whatever people, just thought you might be a little happy for me.
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I'm ecstatic.

For now. Just don't want to see you get ahead of yourself on the climb and make me watch the fall.
lil bart
QUOTE(Human Ills @ Apr 18 2005, 12:26 PM)
ROFL. I haven't changed. Women CAN suck. This one doesn't. She's one of the good ones.

Whatever people, just thought you might be a little happy for me.
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Who said you'd changed?

You think I didn't see this ALWAYS? Hello?

And who sez people aren't a little happy for you, just cuz we take a little advantage of the needle. dry.gif

We're just as happy ........................ for us!!

laugh.gif
lil bart
You owe me about four zillion flower petals strewn at my dancing feets. dry.gif
Human Ills
QUOTE(lil bart @ Apr 18 2005, 11:59 AM)

We're just as happy ........................ for us!!

laugh.gif
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ROFL

I'm happy for you guys too!
lil bart
And you owe it all to this woman:

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davey!!!! The Ministry's got a load comin' in.
hunin
QUOTE(Human Ills @ Apr 18 2005, 02:26 PM)
ROFL. I haven't changed. Women CAN suck. This one doesn't. She's one of the good ones.

Whatever people, just thought you might be a little happy for me.
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Well, I'm jolly happy for you.

Ah, love.

user posted image

QUOTE
Joey Crown, musician with an odd, intense face, whose life is a quest for impossible things like flowers in concrete or like trying to pluck a note of music out of the air and put it under glass to treasure. Joey Crown, musician with an odd, intense face, who in a moment will try to leave the Earth and discover the middle ground - the place we call the Twilight Zone.



Good on you!
Bart Katz
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lil bart
user posted imageuser posted imageuser posted imageuser posted imageuser posted image
Human Ills
ROFL
hunin
Heh.

QUOTE
Joey Crown, who makes music, and who discovered something about life; that it can be rich and rewarding and full of beauty, just like the music he played, if a person would only pause to look and to listen. Joey Crown, who got his clue in the Twilight Zone.

Bart Katz
user posted image

http://www.womenbehindbars.com/
Human Ills
Disclaimer:
Women Behind Bars (WBB) accepts no responsibility for the truth and/or accuracy of any statement made by advertisers and/or respondents on or to this web site. We have not verified or investigated any of the personal statements made by the individual ladies.
Bart Katz
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Bart Katz
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csh
can tom delay and company be liken to Carrie Nation?
lil bart
Sorry, csh, this forum is, uh, temporarily down. rolleyes.gif While its Master of Ceremonies is up.
lil bart
There's a wanted ad in my local paper tonight for a male guinea pig. Too bad Millness already got a, uh, position. He mighta been perfect for it. sad.gif
SpaceCowboy
QUOTE(lil bart @ Apr 28 2005, 10:52 PM)
There's a wanted ad in my local paper tonight for a male guinea pig. Too bad Millness already got a, uh, position. He mighta been perfect for it.  sad.gif
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You bad. Berry, berry, bad. laugh.gif
lil bart
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csh
you are right, i do not know this game... blink.gif oops
Nomarchy
A few here have wondered whether all that "doing" or "displaying" gender stuff that I go on about is really 'rigorous' and 'scientific' enough. I think that's fair enough.

Here's the URL for a report on research using all the bells and whistles of contemporary empiricism to operationalize and test "gender display" and "doing gender" hypotheses in accouting for actual behavior and 'economic'/labor choices, as against alternative hypotheses:

Housework, Market Work, and "Doing Gender" by Hiromi Ono and James Raymo
Nomarchy
QUOTE
Our results for both housewives with relatively little work experience and working wives are thus consistent with the hypotheses developed from the institutional perspective. They imply that when a negative evaluation of marriage is tied to a negative evaluation of wives’ work, women’s ability to allocate more time to labor market work in preparation for a possible divorce is constrained by gender display. That is, wives ability to prepare themselves economically for the possibility of divorce is constrained by forces that encourage them to produce gender at the same time. The constraints link the normative expectations in marriage to the negative economic consequence of divorce in such settings.


Another implication of our findings is that the limits that gender display places on wives’ increased labor market work when divorce becomes increasingly possible should be considered when determining the overall merits of marriage in insuring women’s economic well-being. This is of particular relevance in industrialized countries where divorce rates are high or increasing, and where the evaluation of wives’ work depends on the production and maintenance of marital satisfaction (e.g., settings that combine a high degree of gendered role differentiation and fault orientation toward divorce). These are also settings where the negative economic consequences of divorce are expected to be relatively severe and of greatest policy relevance. If displaying gender actually ameliorates marital problems and prevents divorce, then it is a beneficial response to marital satisfaction decline. In reality, however, it is unlikely to resolve fundamental sources of marital strains in contemporary marriages, such as weak communication skills.
Nomarchy
QUOTE
This study was motivated by the need to better understand how wives’ behavioral conformity to normative expectations in marriage could be linked to the negative economic consequences of divorce among women in highly gendered industrialized countries. Data limitations precluded a parallel investigation of husbands’ responses to a decline in marital satisfaction. Such analyses would further the understanding of constraints on increases in the time that husbands spend on unpaid work. For example, do sole breadwinner husbands also tend to “do gender” by reducing their commitment to housework (Brines 1994) or caregiving when faced with declining marital satisfaction? Do husbands in dual-earner couples adapt to the decline in marital satisfaction by limiting their labor market work time? If so, is the extent of these limitations substantially smaller than that of wives? Answering these questions would provide insights into processes underlying husbands’ relatively low housework time (e.g., Bianchi et al.
2000) as well as their relatively strong post-divorce economic position (e.g., Duncan and Hoffman 1985).
lil bart
QUOTE(Nomarchy @ May 1 2005, 01:51 PM)
A few here have wondered whether all that "doing" or "displaying" gender stuff that I go on about is really 'rigorous' and 'scientific' enough. I think that's fair enough.

Here's the URL for a report on research using all the bells and whistles of contemporary empiricism to operationalize and test "gender display" and "doing gender" hypotheses in accouting for actual behavior and 'economic'/labor choices, as against alternative hypotheses:

Housework, Market Work, and "Doing Gender" by Hiromi Ono and James Raymo
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Nomarchy dearest, your posts on this subject have, if not rocked my world, expanded and even shaped differently my thinking, and have given framework to observations or thoughts otherwise loose.

That piece is unreadable. I trust that such linguistics are of equivalent value inside academia as they are useless outside it. sad.gif
SRX
"That piece is unreadable. I trust that such linguistics are of equivalent value inside academia as they are useless outside it."


Is this fair warning? I was just getting ready to read it.

Is "doing gender" something I have to go back in the thread and read up on to understand?
SRX
"Doing gender" sounds like it ought to be more fun.
lil bart
QUOTE(SpeedRacerXxtreme @ May 1 2005, 08:04 PM)
"That piece is unreadable. I trust that such linguistics are of equivalent value inside academia as they are useless outside it."
  Is this fair warning?  I was just getting ready to read it.

Is "doing gender" something I have to go back in the thread and read up on to understand?
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QUOTE(SpeedRacerXxtreme @ May 1 2005, 08:05 PM)
"Doing gender" sounds like it ought to be more fun.
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Yo, Speedy. smile.gif By all means read it and see what you think. "Doing gender" is something Nomarchy began educating us, or me, about a fair while back on C-SPAN. I thought it just plumb bad colloquialism, but instead it is a critical concept of how we assume that our gender determines our character and defines the parameters of our behavior, when it fact it is just "assumptions." Often it is not that our gender defines those things ("who we are") but rather our understandings or beliefs about our gender that limit and shape how we behave and what we seek and do. The way we perceive our gender is, in other words, how we "do" our gender.

Well, anyway, that's my take. smile.gif

lil bart
That may sound rather simplistic and obvious. The shockers come when a "truth" you thought you knew becomes an assumption you're shown you have. blink.gif
SRX
QUOTE(lil bart @ May 1 2005, 08:35 PM)
Yo, Speedy.  smile.gif By all means read it and see what you think. "Doing gender" is something Nomarchy began educating us, or me, about a fair while back on C-SPAN. I thought it just plumb bad colloquialism, but instead it is a critical concept of how we assume that our gender determines our character and defines the parameters of our behavior, when it fact it is just "assumptions." Often it is not that our gender defines those things ("who we are") but rather our understandings or beliefs about our gender that limit and shape how we behave and what we seek and do. The way we perceive our gender is, in other words, how we "do" our gender.

Well, anyway, that's my take.  smile.gif
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I was afraid the answer was going to be "read it and see for yourself", but at least you gave me a starting point. I'll look into it. (Until then I'll be stuck with my assumptions)

Sometime I need someone to boil these long papers into a Readers Digest version. Being speedy has it's drawbacks. sad.gif
SRX
OK, So I read along and am doing fine, everything going according to scientific theory then this jumps out at me:

QUOTE
"This measure is based on a subjective report of wives’ marital
satisfaction and may differ from measures based on husbands’ reports (Rhyne 1981), or measures relyingon objective standards of a satisfying marriage (Gager and Sanchez 2003)."




I can understand not going by the husband's report, but not even an "objective standard"? Then the summary:

QUOTE
In sum, our study suggests that, when the evaluation of marriage is closely tied to the evaluation of
wives’ work performance, gender display in response to declining marital satisfaction can limit wives’
allocation of time to labor market work. Potential limits imposed by gender display in response to
expectation of divorce should be taken into consideration when evaluating the economic benefits of
marriage in some settings.



Doesn't sound very concrete for all the trouble they went to in having a scientific model. Women may worry more about paying work if they aren't satisfied and think they may end up divorcing?

They don't seem to spend a lot of effort on clarity when it comes to the final product.

Nomarchy
QUOTE(SpeedRacerXxtreme @ May 1 2005, 08:46 PM)
OK, So I read along and am doing fine, everything going according to scientific theory then this jumps out at me:
I can understand not going by the husband's report, but not even an "objective standard"? Then the summary:
Doesn't sound very concrete for all the trouble they went to in having a scientific model. Women may worry more about paying work if they aren't satisfied and think they may end up divorcing?

They don't seem to spend a lot of effort on clarity when it comes to the final product.
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How do men and women decide how much of their available time to devote to 'market work' and 'household' (household and child- and spouse-care labor)? Standard, economic analysis and theory suggests that men and women choose how to allocate scarce time resources between leisure, market-work and non-market work according to market- or quasi market valuations of their already accumulated 'human capital' (their inborn and acquired skills, on-the-job and in formal training) and their rational expectations about the future. Thus, married housewives in a marriage that's on the rocks, one that looks like it's going to end in divorce, would be expected to increase their market-work participation, in anticipation of the loss of 'indirect', mediated market-income they're not receiving through their 'bread-winner' husbands, regardless of whose 'fault' they perceive the bad shape of their marriage to be. Working-wives would also be expected to increase their market-work, in anticipation of the same.

On the other hand, the 'institutionalist' and doing gender, displaying gender views suggest expecting that 'housewives' will increase both their market-involvement AND their non-market work allocation. And so on.

The authors argue that examining married men's responses to the same situation would be instructive. I have quoted some of the more readable stuff above.

In general, it's too much to expect perfect readability in stuff meant to be read primarily by other who speak the 'lingo'.
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