Feel free to explain your choice.

It's never "one thing." You mean -- do we want you not to be afraid to make a move? That would be a big ten-four.

Is this a personal question here or a general one?

Screw 'em. Bored with trying to impress.

Screw that. Just look for a woman who appreciates fine tools, and likes to change her own oil.

Did anyone notice that Nomarchy engages in a range of discussion on Millness' rant board, asks this question here, and then hops off to the airport to pick up, as they say (and he said) in the lingo, a "gf?"

The thought plickens.

Noma's a playa. Everybody knows that.

Well it's obvious she doesn't go with him on account of his car. It must be his charm.

ROFL

I only went out with a guy kinda for his car once, on the rebound from a way too serious relationship with an almost morbidly serious guy. Rebound man had a 'vette (which he let me drive) and a Harley.

Hooboy.

I felt so guilty, too.

I went out with an extremely stupid girl with large boobs just to get laid once. Should I feel guilty?

Depends on whether you got laid.

For what? Giving her a chance?

Well, that was almost my first sexual (intercourse) experience. She was mildly stupid, but her boobs were SPECTACULAR.

Indeed.

Thanks, Bart!

All three of them?

Yeah, she was pretty, too!

I can't believe that there have been no votes to the question.

Like I have any idea what women want.

Have I already said that I'm bored with trying to figure it out?

How about I would rather do what I feel comfortable doing than adjusting my behaviour to please the unpleasable? Have I yet made that point?

I'm way ahead of you. I have a wife to not please, you only have to not please strangers.

One of 'em wanted the same thing you did.

And knew better how to get it.

Uh ... yeah.

You're overmade that point. And on more projection it seems than participation. So the Shakespearean take is ..... Methinks the gentleman doth protest too much.

I have to say: I don't understand "the gay thing" at all. I can accept it, no problem, and I've always had a soft spot for gay men (how appropriate -- prob'ly them for me, too. ) Not so for gay women. The sex is impossible to think about in either case.

Some magazine I can't recall anymore did a study on gay men versus lesbians. The list ran about the same way I expected it to. Gay men are just easier to get along with for both sexes. We had a gay department where I used to work and I never had a problem with any of them. Got lent to them on occassion. Lesbians I've found to more often having a caustic way about them even when it isn't needed.

Gay sex I don't even contemplate, though I have given davis some private insight to the lesbian angle.

What's so impossible to think about 'gay sex'?

And, you should meet more lesbian women. I have a very soft spot for specific lesbian women and specific gay men. I don't find heterodox object-choices particularly decisive when it comes to whether I have a soft spot for someone.

Might have something to do with that "doth protest too much" concept.

A soft spot?

It's one thing to have a soft spot for specific people, and another to note that groups seem to have tendencies. I find in general that gays have less trouble with women than lesbians have with men. That is in no way meant to attack them all personally, as if I were in their position I might well feel the same way.

When it gets hard I'll start to worry.

Might that be because groups of adolescent or even adult women have never been known to harass and beat up gay men? Might that be because the likelihood of a gay man being raped by a woman so as to 'convert him' is nil?

True, amongst other things.

Um .... it's shuddersome. I suppose it would be the polar opposite of attraction.

I have met plenty of lesbian women, Nomarchy. I find they tend to be abrasive. It seems an adopted part of the subculture. Whereas gay men are often kewl, fun, great decorators & cooks, and interlace our interactions with no entendres. That is very freeing.



I couldn't resist ... the entendre.

Do bulldykers have a problem with getting raped a lot?

They have a much better founded fear of being raped by homophobic rednecks in all parts of the country for daring to pretend that they're not interested in having sex with men, than gay men have of being raped by homophobic women for daring to pretend that they're not interested in having sex with women.

I didn't realize we were thinking of gay sex as something involving us, individually, in it.

What subculture are you refering to? Does 'abrasive' mean that they don't do 'femininity' appropriately?

As for "great decorators and cooks", you should meet some of the lads in West Hollywood.

All in all, the stereotypical thinking involved here is almost comical.

Been my general experience.

People don't sit around dreaming up stereotypes just for laughs. No matter what the PC thinking is. WHY those stereotypes fit or not and how much is a more honest discussion than mere dismissal.

Maybe Noma's pointing out that there are more stereotypes from which to draw. Some are probably a harder sell to the T.V. executives as a basis for a likeable character in sitcoms.

Noma draws his own stereotypes just like the rest of us. Just some are more PC than others for mass consumption.

Oh, I'm sorry. I am probably the only person who has ever approached and shied away from thinking about it.

Um, the lesbian subculture? And no, "abrasive" means they don't do "humanity" very invitingly. (What's up with the defensive undercurrent.)

I should? I saw the most incredible dwelling I have ever seen in all my born days .... here in this little town last month. Tell ya what: I can spot a gay guy's house 9 times out of 10 within seconds of entering. And that is not a stereotype; that is my experience. I've been a house junkie just about forever.

Really? As comical as the political correctness? I lived in Germany for a couple of years. Guess what? Germans tend to be pushy.

My good man, it's not PC thinking. I've had my own stereotypes shredded to pieces by actual experience. I am not being 'superior' and 'politically correct'. Much as Judith Butler obfuscates with the best of them, I didn't begin appreciating her work before but after I had had my 'schemata' undermined.

I am not denying your experience. I am only highlighting the fact that your experience as well as my experience is 'parochial'.

East Coast Greek-Americans of the 'petty bourgeois' variety are notorious racists. West Coast ones are not far behind. They base their ideas on 'blacks' and 'hispanics' on their personal experience and that of their 'primary group'. You and I would recognize their views as 'parochial', wouldn't we?

Specific people can go against stereotype, but that doesn't change the group. I've met messy gays and funny, outgoing lesbians, but in general I find the stereotypes are more right than wrong. I don't live my life expecting people to live up to those stereotypes or pre-judging people negatively. I merely report what my past experience is and how it compares to other's.

What about gay East Coast Greek-Americans?

So, we've managed to appear to be debating while actually agreeing.

It's been known to happen