Surprised we have made it this far without an Education topic. So here it is.
If yur edyoucated ina gubment skool, raze yur mit.
Full Version: Education
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QUOTE
There is no evidence that children in smaller primary classes do better in maths or English, researchers say... ...There was "a positive relationship" between class size and Year 6 literacy: pupils in larger classes made more progress.
BBC News: Small class pupils 'do no better'
Must not have included home schoolers, very small class sizes.
QUOTE(arebuntz @ Jan 7 2005, 09:28 AM)
Surprised we have made it this far without an Education topic. So here it is.
If yur edyoucated ina gubment skool, raze yur mit.
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If yur edyoucated ina gubment skool, raze yur mit.
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I was educated through eighth grade in what should, in theory, be the worst of the worst – a FEDERALLY ADMINISTED COMPUSORY SCHOOL SYTEM.
It did great by me, I have no complaints.
For high school, I joined the civilian population off base at a local high school in a blue- collar Massachusetts town. They did fine by me too, but then I was raised by parents who placed a high value on discipline, learning, obedience, and respect for teachers.
It worked for me. (back in the fifties and sixties)
QUOTE(arebuntz @ Jan 7 2005, 07:28 AM)
Surprised we have made it this far without an Education topic. So here it is.
If yur edyoucated ina gubment skool, raze yur mit.
[right][snapback]36612[/snapback][/right]
If yur edyoucated ina gubment skool, raze yur mit.
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I started and finished in private school, and went to public in the middle. Public school is ok if you fit in one of their tracking schemes, otherwise you're screwed.
QUOTE
SpaceCowboyThey did fine by me too, but then I was raised by parents who placed a high value on discipline, learning, obedience, and respect for teachers.
My folks were big on that too. Unfortunately I wasn't. Today I'd probably be on some sort of drug because I was always doing three things at once. Sitting still for an hour while the teacher tried to get the slow kids to catch up just wasn't very easy. My best friend and I tested the highest in our grade, but he had an ability to concentrate on school that I just wasn't mentally built for. He went all the way through high school with only one B and is now a psychiatrist for the prison system. But I don't think he ever did anything because he wanted to, but because his father was a doctor and he was expected to be one too. I just can't imagine living my life to fill some nebulous family expectation.
QUOTE(arebuntz @ Jan 7 2005, 06:28 AM)
Surprised we have made it this far without an Education topic. So here it is.
If yur edyoucated ina gubment skool, raze yur mit.
[right][snapback]36612[/snapback][/right]
If yur edyoucated ina gubment skool, raze yur mit.
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Kin't ya tel?
Great topic. I saved it for dessert (even though life is short & I really should start eating it first). In the immortal words of California's governor, I'll be back.
QUOTE(arebuntz @ Jan 7 2005, 06:32 AM)
BBC News: Small class pupils 'do no better'
Must not have included home schoolers, very small class sizes.
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Must not have included home schoolers, very small class sizes.
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Interesting. I have read similar analyses from the US, but perhaps none so thoroughly disparaging of any differences owing to teacher abilities. (Or maybe it wasn't "abilities." Maybe the UK avoids those hurdles somehow.
) But it is very counterintuitive.But in the USA, you may as well argue that the moon is made of green cheese. The "wisdom" is so prevailing that even if not wisdom it will prevail.
The most interesting part -- and very intuitive -- is to note that the greatest difference attributes to the financial status of the student. Um, can we all say "D'oh!"
Meanwhile, back at the bureaucracy homeside:
QUOTE
Parties agree it's time to pay bill for teacher raises, class-size cuts
By KYLE ARNOLD, SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER REPORTER, Friday, January 7, 2005
OLYMPIA -- Democrats and Republicans alike say it's time for the state to "pony up" and pay the $258 million bill for class-size reductions and cost-of-living increases for teachers and school staff that were suspended because of state budget woes.
Both Initiative 732 (teacher cost-of-living adjustments) and Initiative 728 (smaller class sizes) were approved by voters in 2000 and given funding in 2001. But in 2003, budget shortfalls prompted the Legislature and the governor to put off the pay raises as well as hold back on increasing funding for smaller class sizes.
It's been more than two years since many teachers got pay raises, according to Rich Wood, spokesman for the Washington Education Association. Wood said Washington's average teacher salary is $45,439, compared with $46,762 nationally, and student-to-teacher ratios are among the worst in the nation at 19.3 students to every teacher compared with an average of 15.7 nationwide.
"It's one of the most important issues," Wood said. "We need the Legislature to follow the will of the voters and give funding for teacher raises."
Lawmakers called the 2003 suspensions only a temporary solution and said funding would be reinstated in 2005.
"Since I have been in the Legislature, we have been deferring these raises for years, it's time to pony up," said Margarita Prentice, D-Renton, the incoming chairwoman of the Senate Ways and Means Committee.
Gov. Gary Locke's proposed budget calls for $138 million for reduced class sizes and $120 million for K-12 teacher and staff salaries.
Rep. Helen Sommers, D-Seattle, chairwoman of the House Appropriations Committee, said there is great support for funding the two initiatives and opposition is unlikely.
Leaders from both parties agree reinstating education funding needs to be a top priority.
However, Senate Minority leader Bill Finkbeiner, R-Redmond, cautioned that with a tight budget, legislators will have to make education a top priority or again risk having to suspend raises and school funding.
Locke has said tax increases are necessary to finance the initiatives and close a $1.6 billion budget gap.
While Locke only remains governor until Wednesday, when Christine Gregoire is expected to take the office, the governor-elect hasn't had time to prepare a budget and likely will use much of Locke's proposal.
With a projected $1.6 billion budget shortfall, the Legislature will be forced to raise taxes or make cuts.
In November, voters overwhelmingly rejected Initiative 884, which called for a 1 percent sales tax increase for education. Despite the initiative's defeat, Republican and Democratic leadership agree voters haven't given up on education.
But according to Finkbeiner, in the recent election voters said the state should finance education without raising taxes.
Speaker of the House Frank Chopp, D-Seattle, said the initiatives faced problems from the beginning.
"The voters want us to spend more money on schools, but there were no revenue sources passed along with those initiatives," Chopp said. "There were two measures that were perceived to the voters as free."
No tax increases or revenue sources were passed with the original initiatives, just a mandate that the state finance the programs.
Legislators say that in 2003, cuts were made only to ease a budget crisis and that it's time to reinstate the funding promised two years ago.
"Can we do this? Yes. Are there going to be some tough challenges in balancing out the budget? Yes. But we have to keep (funding education) a high priority," Finkbeiner said.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/206923...tiatives07.html
By KYLE ARNOLD, SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER REPORTER, Friday, January 7, 2005
OLYMPIA -- Democrats and Republicans alike say it's time for the state to "pony up" and pay the $258 million bill for class-size reductions and cost-of-living increases for teachers and school staff that were suspended because of state budget woes.
Both Initiative 732 (teacher cost-of-living adjustments) and Initiative 728 (smaller class sizes) were approved by voters in 2000 and given funding in 2001. But in 2003, budget shortfalls prompted the Legislature and the governor to put off the pay raises as well as hold back on increasing funding for smaller class sizes.
It's been more than two years since many teachers got pay raises, according to Rich Wood, spokesman for the Washington Education Association. Wood said Washington's average teacher salary is $45,439, compared with $46,762 nationally, and student-to-teacher ratios are among the worst in the nation at 19.3 students to every teacher compared with an average of 15.7 nationwide.
"It's one of the most important issues," Wood said. "We need the Legislature to follow the will of the voters and give funding for teacher raises."
Lawmakers called the 2003 suspensions only a temporary solution and said funding would be reinstated in 2005.
"Since I have been in the Legislature, we have been deferring these raises for years, it's time to pony up," said Margarita Prentice, D-Renton, the incoming chairwoman of the Senate Ways and Means Committee.
Gov. Gary Locke's proposed budget calls for $138 million for reduced class sizes and $120 million for K-12 teacher and staff salaries.
Rep. Helen Sommers, D-Seattle, chairwoman of the House Appropriations Committee, said there is great support for funding the two initiatives and opposition is unlikely.
Leaders from both parties agree reinstating education funding needs to be a top priority.
However, Senate Minority leader Bill Finkbeiner, R-Redmond, cautioned that with a tight budget, legislators will have to make education a top priority or again risk having to suspend raises and school funding.
Locke has said tax increases are necessary to finance the initiatives and close a $1.6 billion budget gap.
While Locke only remains governor until Wednesday, when Christine Gregoire is expected to take the office, the governor-elect hasn't had time to prepare a budget and likely will use much of Locke's proposal.
With a projected $1.6 billion budget shortfall, the Legislature will be forced to raise taxes or make cuts.
In November, voters overwhelmingly rejected Initiative 884, which called for a 1 percent sales tax increase for education. Despite the initiative's defeat, Republican and Democratic leadership agree voters haven't given up on education.
But according to Finkbeiner, in the recent election voters said the state should finance education without raising taxes.
Speaker of the House Frank Chopp, D-Seattle, said the initiatives faced problems from the beginning.
"The voters want us to spend more money on schools, but there were no revenue sources passed along with those initiatives," Chopp said. "There were two measures that were perceived to the voters as free."
No tax increases or revenue sources were passed with the original initiatives, just a mandate that the state finance the programs.
Legislators say that in 2003, cuts were made only to ease a budget crisis and that it's time to reinstate the funding promised two years ago.
"Can we do this? Yes. Are there going to be some tough challenges in balancing out the budget? Yes. But we have to keep (funding education) a high priority," Finkbeiner said.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/206923...tiatives07.html
Just the kind of bipartisanship I most dislike.
QUOTE
If yur edyoucated ina gubment skool, raze yur mit.
I lost one mit, now I have to wear gloves.
QUOTE(davis¹³ @ Jan 7 2005, 08:02 PM)
I lost one mit, now I have to wear gloves.[right][snapback]36894[/snapback][/right]
Did you lose it or did you raze it.
QUOTE(davis¹³ @ Jan 8 2005, 12:02 AM)
I lost one mit, now I have to wear gloves.[right][snapback]36894[/snapback][/right]
Shoulda used the up the sleeve, around the back, down the sleeve strap thingy....
QUOTE(lil bart @ Jan 7 2005, 10:11 PM)
Interesting. I have read similar analyses from the US, but perhaps none so thoroughly disparaging of any differences owing to teacher abilities. (Or maybe it wasn't "abilities." Maybe the UK avoids those hurdles somehow. ) But it is very counterintuitive.
But in the USA, you may as well argue that the moon is made of green cheese. The "wisdom" is so prevailing that even if not wisdom it will prevail.
The most interesting part -- and very intuitive -- is to note that the greatest difference attributes to the financial status of the student. Um, can we all say "D'oh!"
Meanwhile, back at the bureaucracy homeside:
[b]
Just the kind of bipartisanship I most dislike.
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) But it is very counterintuitive.But in the USA, you may as well argue that the moon is made of green cheese. The "wisdom" is so prevailing that even if not wisdom it will prevail.
The most interesting part -- and very intuitive -- is to note that the greatest difference attributes to the financial status of the student. Um, can we all say "D'oh!"
Meanwhile, back at the bureaucracy homeside:
[b]
Just the kind of bipartisanship I most dislike.
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Yes but are the little skulls full of mush learning anything. As an engineer at the Lazy B (or Bitchin B depending on whether I wanted to not work or complain and not work) I suggested that they might start their own technical schools to bring in a supply of workers down the road with the neccesary skills. Still waiting feedback from that suggestion...
QUOTE(lil bart @ Jan 7 2005, 10:18 PM)
Did you lose it or did you raze it.
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I'm soooo sorry.....
Education: those poor teachers…but for some reason I have not brought myself to have much sympathy for them. They can work under 200 days of the year and relatively make pretty-good salary. Public school put me in a track…I found out later that it was an experiment…
Further research directed me to gifted children web sites.
One of my favorites is KIPP, knowledge is power program.
The KIPP idea is based somewhat loosely on Asian school methods.
I am not giving advice... but rather sharing information.
Further research directed me to gifted children web sites.
One of my favorites is KIPP, knowledge is power program.
The KIPP idea is based somewhat loosely on Asian school methods.
I am not giving advice... but rather sharing information.
After the election I had the thought that the funds for no child left behind might be dispersed in the ‘red’ states.
When I mentioned this to a friend he said, the money will be given to the ‘blue’ states to ‘educate them right’.
Saw a little bit of Newt on FOX and by golly my friend might be correct.
When I mentioned this to a friend he said, the money will be given to the ‘blue’ states to ‘educate them right’.
Saw a little bit of Newt on FOX and by golly my friend might be correct.
QUOTE(csh @ Jan 12 2005, 09:56 AM)
Education: those poor teachers…but for some reason I have not brought myself to have much sympathy for them. They can work under 200 days of the year and relatively make pretty-good salary. Public school put me in a track…I found out later that it was an experiment…
Further research directed me to gifted children web sites.
One of my favorites is KIPP, knowledge is power program.
The KIPP idea is based somewhat loosely on Asian school methods.
I am not giving advice... but rather sharing information.
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Further research directed me to gifted children web sites.
One of my favorites is KIPP, knowledge is power program.
The KIPP idea is based somewhat loosely on Asian school methods.
I am not giving advice... but rather sharing information.
[right][snapback]38425[/snapback][/right]
I agree. I was in more than one (TBA*) experiment also. And I found out while still in school that the only reason the school gave a rat's arse as to attendance was because they collected a per diem stipend for every student there.
Schools are much more about money than education, to the point where I personally believe the money cart is several million fathoms ahead of the education horse.
I have never heard of KIPP, but reading Confucious Lives Next Door (TR Reid), about Japan, gave me some nice bright ideas about education. It's a worthy and enjoyably readable book in any case.
* To Be Abandoned
QUOTE(csh @ Jan 12 2005, 10:02 AM)
After the election I had the thought that the funds for no child left behind might be dispersed in the ‘red’ states.
When I mentioned this to a friend he said, the money will be given to the ‘blue’ states to ‘educate them right’.
Saw a little bit of Newt on FOX and by golly my friend might be correct.
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When I mentioned this to a friend he said, the money will be given to the ‘blue’ states to ‘educate them right’.
Saw a little bit of Newt on FOX and by golly my friend might be correct.
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California is Blue, and bottom of the barrel. And has a friendly Gov., so maybe your friend may be on to something.
QUOTE(arebuntz @ Jan 7 2005, 08:32 AM)
BBC News: Small class pupils 'do no better'
Must not have included home schoolers, very small class sizes.
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Must not have included home schoolers, very small class sizes.
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And note, they were dealing with 4th, 5th, and 6th graders. By then kids are either in the groove of school or they aren't. Seems to me getting the youngest students started down the right road is the key. Once they get jump started, it'll be hard to hold them back. Which is why parents - the 1st teachers - are so very critical.
"....Critics often point to test scores in other countries. How can countries with class sizes of 30 to 40 students consistently outscore U.S. students on standardized tests? they wonder.
Fourth-grade students in Sinagpore, Korea, Japan, and Hong Kong have large math classes and teachers typically rely on whole-class instruction and independent seatwork -- yet fourth graders in those four countries scored highest on the recently released TIMMS (Third International Math and Science Study) results.
Sonia Hernandez, deputy superintendent for the curriculum and instruction at the California State Department of Education, responded to this concern on a special Online Forum on class dynamics and class size, presented by PBS: "As for schools in high-achieving nations, we actually visited classrooms in Japan and Singapore. In the lower grades, their schools do have fairly small class sizes (e.g., 15 students), particularly in urban areas. This is so even though their average seems to indicate a class size much higher. We noted that in the lower grades, classes are small, but as students move up to fourth, fifth, and sixth grades, the class sizes expand considerably.
Notes U.S. News Online in their report: "Japan is, however, concerned that its education system discourages creativity and independent thinking, and a government panel recently recommended that the average class size of 29 students be lowered to help teachers nurture students' talents."
CLASS SIZE REDUCTION -- PLUS!
Ronald Ferguson, a lecturer at Harvard University's John F. Kennedy School of Government, told the Washington Post last December (see Should Classes Be Smaller?) that his research shows that "teacher quality, not class size is the most important factor in education."
"The issue is whether teachers teach any differently to a small class than to a large class," he said. "If you cut class size and the teachers don't teach any differently, it won't matter."
Indeed, class size reduction must be accompanied by other reforms in order to achieve the goal of improving student learning, says Acting Deputy Under Secretary of Education Marshall Smith. "Teachers have to do something different with it," he says. "They can't just stand up in front of the class and put things on the blackboard."...."
http://www.educationworld.com/a_admin/admin051.shtml
That article while a bit dated notes that reducing class size has a geometric effect on cost. "...Dropping a class from 25 to 22 students increases classroom expenditures by more than 10 percent...."
$s are the issue at most every turn. Figures.
"..."Reducing class size seems to be most effective in combination with other reforms," reports U.S. News Online. "Evidence comes from a study of 16 low-income schools in Austin, Texas. In the late 1980s, each of the schools was awarded an extra $300,000 a year for five years as part of a desegregation case. Fourteen of the schools spent the money to reduce class size and yet in five years didn't manage to improve student attendance or test scores. But the other two schools reduced class size, set higher standards, provided intensive teacher training, and established health clinics on their grounds to address physical problems that were keeping students from learning. Test scores and attendance both improved significantly at those schools."..."
the social impediments to learning need to be addressed if one wants to see anything resembling dramatic strides in education. Kids are much more concerned with being popular than anything else. It spills over into everything, and parents and teachers are unwilling to curb it. It's almost as if we have come to a conclusion as a nation. And that is we place more value on being socially adept, than we do on being learned.
Anything else is mere lip service.
Anything else is mere lip service.
Sounds like MTV should be a course requirement.
QUOTE(Mizilus @ Jan 12 2005, 11:53 AM)
Sounds like MTV should be a course requirement.
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What do you mean?
Being popular is what MTV is all about. Its all about image.
QUOTE(Human Ills @ Jan 12 2005, 01:44 PM)
the social impediments to learning need to be addressed if one wants to see anything resembling dramatic strides in education. Kids are much more concerned with being popular than anything else. It spills over into everything, and parents and teachers are unwilling to curb it. It's almost as if we have come to a conclusion as a nation. And that is we place more value on being socially adept, than we do on being learned.
Anything else is mere lip service.
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Anything else is mere lip service.
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Point taken.
If I could act to close every public school tomorrow and forever, you can all bet your bottom dollar I would do it without a second's hesitation. Man I hate public schools and their terrorist teachers' union.
QUOTE(lil bart @ Jan 12 2005, 06:32 PM)
If I could act to close every public school tomorrow and forever, you can all bet your bottom dollar I would do it without a second's hesitation. Man I hate public schools and their terrorist teachers' union.
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You and Education Secretary Rodney Page....
QUOTE(arebuntz @ Jan 12 2005, 02:35 PM)
You and Education Secretary Rodney Page....
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My favorite (and former) Bush Administration spokesperson.
QUOTE(lil bart @ Jan 12 2005, 03:32 PM)
If I could act to close every public school tomorrow and forever, you can all bet your bottom dollar I would do it without a second's hesitation. Man I hate public schools and their terrorist teachers' union.
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Lovely. And very constructive, too.
QUOTE(Nomarchy @ Jan 12 2005, 03:24 PM)
Lovely. And very constructive, too.
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I have to torch the village in order to rebuild it.
In my dreams.
You have to know that Noma is going to take that personally.
QUOTE(Mizilus @ Jan 12 2005, 11:55 AM)
Being popular is what MTV is all about. Its all about image.
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...and there you have it.
QUOTE(Human Ills @ Jan 12 2005, 06:08 PM)
You have to know that Noma is going to take that personally.
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No, I don't. If he's as smart as I think he is, he notices that I speak only highly of my university. And that's the only "public education" I speak highly of -- or think a person has a chance to get an education at.
QUOTE(lil bart @ Jan 12 2005, 08:39 PM)
No, I don't. If he's as smart as I think he is, he notices that I speak only highly of my university. And that's the only "public education" I speak highly of -- or think a person has a chance to get an education at.
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Yeah, I let that go (the implication that I will take umbrage at any and all criticisms of public primary and secondary schools) because I thought HI knew the nuances, already.
The notion, though, that public schools in the U.S. have problems because they are public, and that teacher's unions are "terroristic" because they're unions or because they're unions of teachers is anathema, to me.
As I like analogies and metaphors, doing what I perceive as anathema above is akin to being dissatisfied with current fast-food restaurants and their products and indicting 'fast-food restaurants' as such.
QUOTE(Nomarchy @ Jan 13 2005, 09:19 AM)
Yeah, I let that go (the implication that I will take umbrage at any and all criticisms of public primary and secondary schools) because I thought HI knew the nuances, already.
The notion, though, that public schools in the U.S. have problems because they are public, and that teacher's unions are "terroristic" because they're unions or because they're unions of teachers is anathema, to me.
As I like analogies and metaphors, doing what I perceive as anathema above is akin to being dissatisfied with current fast-food restaurants and their products and indicting 'fast-food restaurants' as such.
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The notion, though, that public schools in the U.S. have problems because they are public, and that teacher's unions are "terroristic" because they're unions or because they're unions of teachers is anathema, to me.
As I like analogies and metaphors, doing what I perceive as anathema above is akin to being dissatisfied with current fast-food restaurants and their products and indicting 'fast-food restaurants' as such.
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Fast Food Nation, baby. Supersize that.
Your analogy just made my case.I do not think that their being public or their being unionized is intrinsic to the insoluble problems plaguing public schools. I do think that the NEA is absolutely beyond redemption much less reform.
It's all idle chatter to all intents and purposes. America will continue to have terrible and overpriced public schools, and what little reform there is will occur in pieces and patches around and outside the periphery.
QUOTE
Fast Food Nation, baby. Supersize that. Your analogy just made my case.
What case was that? "Fast Food Nation" and "Supersize That!" do not make any effective, legitimate case, IMHO.
QUOTE(Nomarchy @ Jan 13 2005, 10:05 AM)
What case was that? "Fast Food Nation" and "Supersize That!" do not make any effective, legitimate case, IMHO.
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The case that fast food is an unsalvageable food wasteland.
QUOTE(lil bart @ Jan 13 2005, 11:09 AM)
The case that fast food is an unsalvageable food wasteland.
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And why is it unsalvageable, in your estimation?
QUOTE(Nomarchy @ Jan 13 2005, 10:16 AM)
And why is it unsalvageable, in your estimation?
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It's extraordinarily profitable junk. People like it and it pays. What incentive to change, but for a bit of PR or pandering hither & thither?
QUOTE(lil bart @ Jan 13 2005, 11:21 AM)
It's extraordinarily profitable junk. People like it and it pays. What incentive to change, but for a bit of PR or pandering hither & thither?
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And why do people like it and why does it pay?
Oh shit.
QUOTE(Nomarchy @ Jan 13 2005, 10:37 AM)
And why do people like it and why does it pay?
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They like it cuz it tastes good and it's, um, "fast," and it pays cuz they pay for it.
QUOTE(lil bart @ Jan 13 2005, 11:43 AM)
They like it cuz it tastes good and it's, um, "fast," and it pays cuz they pay for it.
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And why would folks be interested in getting something that tastes good, is filling, and comes to them fast?
What is it about everything else about how folks' lives is organized, what demands are made of them, etc. that explains their manifest and effective preferences?
Then, apply the same analysis to your views on public schools.
QUOTE(Nomarchy @ Jan 13 2005, 10:52 AM)
And why would folks be interested in getting something that tastes good, is filling, and comes to them fast?
What is it about everything else about how folks' lives is organized, what demands are made of them, etc. that explains their manifest and effective preferences?
Then, apply the same analysis to your views on public schools.
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What is it about everything else about how folks' lives is organized, what demands are made of them, etc. that explains their manifest and effective preferences?
Then, apply the same analysis to your views on public schools.
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At least the fast food is relatively CHEAP! You pretty much do "get what you pay for!"
And expect!
QUOTE(lil bart @ Jan 13 2005, 01:01 PM)
And expect!
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Zaxby's is better, freshly breaded and cooked, but more expensive and slower.
QUOTE(Bart Katz @ Jan 13 2005, 11:06 AM)
Zaxby's is better, freshly breaded and cooked, but more expensive and slower.
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Never heard of that, as you had never heard of Burgerville, and its wonderful Tillamook (Oregon) cheddar burgers, smoked salmon salads and fresh-cut-with-peels fries.
Stop making me hungry!
QUOTE(Nomarchy @ Jan 13 2005, 09:19 AM)
Yeah, I let that go (the implication that I will take umbrage at any and all criticisms of public primary and secondary schools) because I thought HI knew the nuances, already.
The notion, though, that public schools in the U.S. have problems because they are public, and that teacher's unions are "terroristic" because they're unions or because they're unions of teachers is anathema, to me.
As I like analogies and metaphors, doing what I perceive as anathema above is akin to being dissatisfied with current fast-food restaurants and their products and indicting 'fast-food restaurants' as such.
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The notion, though, that public schools in the U.S. have problems because they are public, and that teacher's unions are "terroristic" because they're unions or because they're unions of teachers is anathema, to me.
As I like analogies and metaphors, doing what I perceive as anathema above is akin to being dissatisfied with current fast-food restaurants and their products and indicting 'fast-food restaurants' as such.
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I didn't assume you'd take critizism of public schools personally, I thought you might take some level of offense at blanket critizism of the teacher's unions.
Didn't mean to butt in.
QUOTE(lil bart @ Jan 13 2005, 01:20 PM)
Never heard of that, as you had never heard of Burgerville, and its wonderful Tillamook (Oregon) cheddar burgers, smoked salmon salads and fresh-cut-with-peels fries.
Stop making me hungry!
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Stop making me hungry!
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http://www.zaxbys.com/menu.html
QUOTE(Human Ills @ Jan 13 2005, 12:47 PM)
I didn't assume you'd take critizism of public schools personally, I thought you might take some level of offense at blanket critizism of the teacher's unions.
Didn't mean to butt in.
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Didn't mean to butt in.
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I didn't take it as anything like that, as I stated already. I understood where you were coming from and what might be inferred from what you said. I, after all, did not originally comment on your comment.
Okay.
Is bread, meat and cheese at home less junky than at McDonald's? Haven't been there in a LONG time.
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