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Human Ills
QUOTE(Ward @ Mar 9 2005, 10:30 AM)
Thanks.  I wonder when news sites on the internet are going to be regarded as mainstream?
[right][snapback]62576[/snapback][/right]

Soon. Very soon. Obviously the question is regarded by whom(who?)?
Ward
QUOTE(davis¹³ @ Mar 9 2005, 11:18 AM)
I looked through at least 6 pages of Google web search to even get that far. It was actually the PNAC website that had a list of former directors including Bolton. I lost the link though. I've tried surfing their site to get that specific page but to no avail. They have a search engine but you have to download their program.

I don't think so.

laugh.gif  laugh.gif  laugh.gif
[right][snapback]62571[/snapback][/right]

LOL

Davis, how did you first find out about the PNAC directorship? From the PNAC site? (I first heard it from you)
lil bart
QUOTE(SpaceCowboy @ Mar 9 2005, 09:22 AM)
More than a bit strange that the MSM should be almost silent.
[right][snapback]62533[/snapback][/right]


I think it's more than a bit .... SOP.
davis¹³
QUOTE(Ward @ Mar 9 2005, 12:34 PM)
LOL

Davis, how did you first find out about the PNAC directorship?  From the PNAC site?  (I first heard it from you)
[right][snapback]62580[/snapback][/right]



I had heard the name John Bolton from a list of neoconservatives. I Googled his name and started reading some of the descriptions of the sites without actaully going to them. Most are left wing sites which I rarely go to. I think Counterpunch may have been one. You know the type.

Then I saw the PNAC site that mentioned Bolton as director. I went to that one because I've been there before and I know what it is. I had no idea they even had a list of directors. Now I can't find it.

I can't even remember what words I googled. That is one of the maddening things about search engines. Unless your are exact you get different results every time.

I didn't want to ... but I guess I'll look again. Thanks ward. laugh.gif laugh.gif
Human Ills
QUOTE(davis¹³ @ Mar 9 2005, 10:43 AM)
I had heard the name John Bolton from a list of neoconservatives. I Googled his name and started reading some of the descriptions of the sites without actaully going to them. Most are left wing sites which I rarely go to. I think  Counterpunch may have been one. You know the type.

Then I saw the PNAC site that mentioned Bolton as director. I went to that one because I've been there before and I know what it is. I had no idea they even had a list of directors. Now I can't find it.

I can't even remember what words I googled. That is one of the maddening things about search engines. Unless your are exact you get different results every time.

I didn't want to ... but I guess I'll look again. Thanks ward.  laugh.gif  laugh.gif
[right][snapback]62584[/snapback][/right]

http://www.newamericancentury.org/

??
davis¹³
I know that one hi. I'm looking for the PNAC link to the history of the directors. It has only the current members.

Unless I'm missing something.
Bix12
QUOTE(davis¹³ @ Mar 9 2005, 11:54 AM)
I know that one hi. I'm looking for the PNAC link to the history of the directors. It has only the current members.

Unless I'm missing something.
[right][snapback]62587[/snapback][/right]


Check your search history, it should have the exact phrasology you used, Sir D...

smile.gif
Russ Logan
QUOTE(Nomarchy @ Mar 9 2005, 10:50 AM)
I am going to have to agree that, logically speaking, the fact that (substitute your own term, I am tired of the anti-semite accusation)-conservatives said that a "pearl harbor'-like incident would be 'necessary' for their PNAC plans to be realized does NOT by itself prove that they had anything to do with (or allowed) 9/11 to take place.

By that dubious logic (an illegitimate teleology) dentists are the cause of the increase in simple sugar content of much of our food ('as they stand to benefit from more cavities, caused by the increased simple sugar content in our food'). Sorry, it doesn't follow.
[right][snapback]62545[/snapback][/right]


[on edit]
Guess I wasn't clear as to the point I was trying to make. Darn! I hate when that happens!

I, like you, agree that to make that kind of connection is dubious, i.e., because PNAC recognized the pattern in our history - the need for a rallying point or cry - they would then engineer same.

But on more than one occasion in these boards, CSPAN, and a couple of others I used to frequent, this specific bit has been used to denigrate the group. I always point out that it has been a characteristic of our history that until such an incident happens we mostly can't be moved to any action - whether the conflict is inevitable or not. And it has also been a pattern in that same history that eventually, the obvious enemy almost always provides just such a spark (I would except Tonkin and maybe the Maine). An unavoidable effect of the continuum of conflict. After all, and I do not know why, given the nature of the attacks, neither Beirut, Khobar Towers, WTC I, nor the USS Cole, ever engendered a call to action such as was seen after WTC II. Too many "blockbuster, special-effects movies?" I just do not know. But this current GWOT has been coming and for a long time, and even absent WTC II, I do think it would have eventuated - some incident or other would have finally tipped the scale. But that's just my opinion.

YMMV.
csh
I have every confidence that the News Media Machine will cut and paste Bush’s speech in Ohio today March 9, 2005

The applause will be right on Que. and only the people who witness the speech live will know the truth.
Grigorii
QUOTE(csh @ Mar 9 2005, 04:13 PM)
I have every confidence that the News Media Machine will cut and paste Bush’s speech in Ohio today March 9, 2005

The applause will be right on Que. and only the people who witness the speech live will know the truth.
[right][snapback]62624[/snapback][/right]



Sooooo, inform us if you'd care to...
davis¹³
QUOTE(csh @ Mar 9 2005, 04:13 PM)
I have every confidence that the News Media Machine will cut and paste Bush’s speech in Ohio today March 9, 2005

The applause will be right on Que. and only the people who witness the speech live will know the truth.
[right][snapback]62624[/snapback][/right]



I was watching a Bush speech one time and he mentioned Bill Clinton went in for heart surgery and I definitely heard a smattering of boos from the audience. Bush looked around like he didn't know what to say. Later that night I read an AP story that reported the boos. I metioned it on the CSPAN site and Manosteel came up with an audio of the speech. Instead of boos, there were cheers. From an all Republican crowd. Then the rightwing media attacked AP and they put out a retraction.

I heard the original. There were boos, not cheers. Someone altered the audio. I still can hardly believe it.
csh
I have every confidence that the News Media Machine will cut and paste Bush’s speech in Ohio today March 9, 2005
The applause will be right on Que. and only the people who witness the speech live will know the truth.

Enlightenment:

The enthusiasm of the crowd waned as the speaker would pause at the chosen points in the speech and waited earnestly for the planned exuberant response of the audience. The speaker kept moving forward with the speech, as the audience became more and more sullen and silent.

Analogy:

It is similar to the phenomenon of women who stay with an abusive partner. After getting whacked on, things will go well for a while; she really wants to believe him…. Then he starts acting, and saying and doing things that she recognizes as leading up to a Grand Slam!

The bottom line is that she really wants to believe him yet she knows she can not trust him and she always has to be so very careful.
celtcahill
" But this current GWOT has been coming and for a long time, and even absent WTC II, I do think it would have eventuated - some incident or other would have finally tipped the scale. "

I agree. Just the unrelenting nastiness of the ME in the hands of some real leadership may have done it, but as long as the GOP doesn't have that, they could at least recognize when the other side gave them the opening.
Arturo_Vandelay
http://www.nationalreview.com/goldberg/goldberg.asp

Where Did that “News Scoop” Go?
Al-Qaqaa came and went with the election season.

Remember al-Qaqaa? This was the massive cache of explosives that American forces failed to secure after the fall of Saddam. In the final week of the presidential campaign it was The Most Important Story on Earth.


The New York Times splashed the news on its front page and didn't stop splashing it for a week. In all, the Times ran 16 stories and columns about al-Qaqaa, plus seven anti-Bush letters to the editor on the subject over an eight-day period. Editorial boards across the country hammered the "outrage" for days. It led all the news broadcasts. It became the central talking point of the Kerry campaign, with John Kerry bellowing his indignation at the administration's incompetence at every stump stop. Maureen Dowd wrote a column about it, titled "White House of Horrors."

Bush supporters were furious. The original Times story read like it was intended to be an October surprise. It dripped with frightening quotes about how the stash was so big it was like "Mars on Earth." The authors quoted an IAEA memo warning that this was "the greatest explosives bonanza in history" and that it was now surely in the hands of shadowy terrorists across the Middle East. Because these explosives were allegedly of the type used to trigger nuclear weapons, the authors felt the need to drag in the specter of the Nagasaki bombing (though the question why WMD-less Saddam wanted explosives used for nuclear triggers got lost in the Bush bashing). Worst of all, we were told, Bush had been warned about these explosives and failed to snap them up right away.

But, as to the intentions of these critics, the most revealing facts were ones that did not appear in that first broadside in the Times. The frightening multi-author article, which dropped like manna from heaven for the Kerry campaign, couldn't find room to mention that the 380 tons of missing explosives constituted a fairly small fraction of the 400,000 tons of explosives and weapons that had been either destroyed or secured from more than 10,000 sites. In that context, what Kerry was calling the greatest blunder of the war suddenly was more like a regrettable but not quite remarkable lapse, in the midst of an extremely fluid situation.

Oh, and they left something else out: The weapons might have been removed before the invasion. Over the course of the week, the Times was forced to concede, often grudgingly and obliquely, that the weapons may not have been there for U.S. forces to secure in the first place. Moreover, it became increasingly implausible to imagine a convoy of trucks absconding with the explosives without U.S. intelligence noticing in the early days after the fall of Iraq. The United States owned the roads and watched them from the air.

So, anyway, I'd forgotten about all this. Bush won the election despite the al-Qaqaa drumbeat from Kerry and his surrogates in and out of the press.

But Byron York, my NR colleague, didn't forget. He wondered, whatever happened to The Biggest Story on Earth? The answer, it turns out, is nothing. The Times has not run a single story about the al-Qaqaa story since November 1. Nada, bupkis, zilch.

For an NRO piece, York contacted the Times's ombudsman — they call him the "Public Editor" — Daniel Okrent and asked him what he thought about it. Okrent showed admirable candor, allowing that the paper should have followed up. Assuming the story was accurate, Okrent thinks his paper could at least try to figure out the question of where the explosives went.

If the story was accurate, it should be important enough to follow up. If it wasn't, we should be told that.

There's also another news angle that might have been worth investigating. As Times columnist William Safire and Cliff May, a former Times reporter and NRO regular, have suggested, the whole al-Qaqaa story might have been orchestrated by Mohammed el-Baradei, the head of the International Atomic Energy Agency, in order to influence the American presidential election. The Bush White House dislikes Baradei, and reportedly the feelings are mutual (largely because the White House wouldn't support Baradei's bid for another term as the head of the IAEA). According to the Wall Street Journal, Baradei triggered the process which resulted in the al-Qaqaa story getting leaked to the Times and CBS News.

If his intent was to influence the election, it would amount to a major scandal, in that foreign agencies aren't supposed to be trying to influence American elections by dropping distorted bombshells in the last week of a presidential campaign. At least, I don't think they are.

In one of the two columns Paul Krugman wrote on the al-Qaqaa story that week, he declared: "Just in case, the right is already explaining away President Bush's defeat: It's all the fault of the 'liberal media,' particularly the New York Times, which, so the conspiracy theory goes, deliberately timed its report on the looted al-Qaqaa explosives — a report all the more dastardly because it was true — for the week before the election." Well, much to Krugman's regret, Bush won. And the deafening silence from the Times these last four months suggests that the conspiracy theorists were on to something.
Bee
[center]
Editor Whedon


TO be able to see every side of every question
To be on every side, to be everything, to be nothing long;
To pervert truth, to ride it for a purpose,
To use great feelings and passions of the human family
For base designs, for cunning ends,
To wear a mask like the Greeks actors—
Your eight-page paper—behind which you huddle,
Bawling through the megaphone of big type:
“This is I, the giant.”
Thereby also living the life of a sneak-thief,
Poisoned with the anonymous words
Of your clandestine soul.
To scratch dirt over scandal for money,
And exhume it to the winds for revenge,
Or to sell papers,
Crushing reputations, or bodies, if need be,
To win at any cost, save your own life.
To glory in demoniac power, ditching civilization,
As a paranoiac boy puts a log on the track
And derails the express train.
To be an editor, as I was.
Then to lie here close by the river over the place
Where the sewage flows from the village,
And the empty cans and garbage are dumped,
And abortions are hidden.

Edgar Lee Master[/center]
Bee
I'll get upset about the Times piece after Fox News runs big retractions on all the WMDs they said we found in Iraq and didn't.

After all, most of the people that voted for Bushie thought they had found WMDs. That had quite a bit more to do with the election than a single NYTimes piece.

Where's FoxNews Omsbudman?

Do they actually have one?

Goldberg is a putz.
lil bart
QUOTE
Goldberg is a putz.


I quit reading cr@ppe that bad a coupla years back. You read enough and get the drifts. You know where the currents are coming from and why. No reason to keep wading (much less drowning) in polluted water. Thems that will, will.
Bee
QUOTE(lil bart @ Mar 10 2005, 11:57 PM)
I quit reading cr@ppe that bad a coupla years back. You read enough and get the drifts. You know where the currents are coming from and why. No reason to keep wading (much less drowning) in polluted water. Thems that will, will.
[right][snapback]63226[/snapback][/right]


"To use great feelings and passions of the human family
For base designs, for cunning ends, "

dry.gif
Bix12
QUOTE(Bee @ Mar 10 2005, 09:50 PM)
[center]
Editor Whedon
TO be able to see every side of every question 
To be on every side, to be everything, to be nothing long; 
To pervert truth, to ride it for a purpose, 
To use great feelings and passions of the human family 
For base designs, for cunning ends,
To wear a mask like the Greeks actors— 
Your eight-page paper—behind which you huddle, 
Bawling through the megaphone of big type: 
“This is I, the giant.” 
Thereby also living the life of a sneak-thief,
Poisoned with the anonymous words 
Of your clandestine soul. 
To scratch dirt over scandal for money, 
And exhume it to the winds for revenge, 
Or to sell papers,
Crushing reputations, or bodies, if need be, 
To win at any cost, save your own life. 
To glory in demoniac power, ditching civilization, 
As a paranoiac boy puts a log on the track 
And derails the express train.
To be an editor, as I was. 
Then to lie here close by the river over the place 
Where the sewage flows from the village, 
And the empty cans and garbage are dumped, 
And abortions are hidden.

Edgar Lee Master[/center]
[right][snapback]63223[/snapback][/right]


Just so....I was reading this not too long ago in a restaurant, it instigated a brief conversation with a fellow patron....we discussed Rupert Murdoch, and Clintons telecommunication bill...it started to get interesting for me, as I rarely meet anyone I can talk with, but the other person was gone before I could get started on Fox news...

Drat.

Perhaps I need altoids?


Ward
Laurie Garrett's "Take This Job and Shove It" Letter to her long time employer, Newsaday.

QUOTE
To:    EDITORIAL ALL USERS Newsday

Subject: FROM LAURIE GARRETT

Dear Newsday Friends and Colleagues,

On March 8th - International Women's Day -- my leave of
absence from Newsday ends. I will not be returning to
the paper, largely because my work at the Council on
Foreign Relations has proven to be the most exciting
challenge of my life. But you have been through so much
pain and difficulty over the last year, all of which I
monitored closely and with considerable concern, that I
don't want to disappear from the Newsday scene without
saying a few words. Indulge me.

Ever since the Chandler Family plucked Mark Willes from
General Foods, placing him at the helm of Times Mirror
with a mandate to destroy the institutions in ways that
would boost dividends, journalism has suffered at
Newsday. The pain of the last year actually began a
decade ago: the sad arc of greed has finally hit
bottom. The leaders of Times Mirror and Tribune have
proven to be mirrors of a general trend in the media
world: They serve their stockholders first, Wall St.
second and somewhere far down the list comes service to
newspaper readerships. In 1996 I personally confronted
Willes on that point, and he publicly confirmed that
the new regime was one in which even the number of
newspapers sold was irrelevant, so long as stock
returns continued to rise.

The deterioration we experienced at Newsday was hardly
unique. All across America news organizations have been
devoured by massive corporations, and allegiance to
stockholders, the drive for higher share prices, and
push for larger dividend returns trumps everything that
the grunts in the newsrooms consider their missions.
Long gone are the days of fast-talking, whiskey-
swilling Murray Kempton peers eloquently filling
columns with daily dish on government scandals,
mobsters and police corruption. The sort of in-your-
face challenge that the Fourth Estate once posed for
politicians has been replaced by mud-slinging, lies
and, where it ought not be, timidity. When I started
out in journalism the newsrooms were still full of old
guys with blue collar backgrounds who got genuinely
indignant when the Governor lied or somebody turned off
the heat on a poor person's apartment in mid-January.
They cussed and yelled their ways through the day, took
an occasional sly snort from a bottle in the bottom
drawer of their desk and bit into news stories like
packs of wild dogs, never letting go until they'd found
and told the truth. If they hadn't been reporters most
of those guys would have been cops or firefighters. It
was just that way.

Now the blue collar has been fully replaced by white
ones in America's newsrooms, everybody has college
degrees.
[like Laurie] The "His Girl Friday" romance of the newshound
is gone. All too many journalists seem to mistake
scandal mongering for tenacious investigation, and far
too many aspire to make themselves the story. When I
think back to the old fellows who were retiring when I
first arrived at Newsday ? guys (almost all of them
were guys) who had cop brothers and fathers working
union jobs ? I suspect most of them would be disgusted
by what passes today for journalism. Theirs was not a
perfect world --- too white, too male, seen through a
haze of cigarette smoke and Scotch ? but it was an
honest one rooted in mid-20th Century American working
class values.

Honesty and tenacity (and for that matter, the working
class) seem to have taken backseats to the sort of
"snappy news", sensationalism, scandal-for-the-sake of
scandal crap that sells. This is not a uniquely Tribune
or even newspaper industry problem: this is true from
the Atlanta mixing rooms of CNN to Sulzberger's offices
in Times Square. Profits: that's what it's all about
now. But you just can't realize annual profit returns
of more than 30 percent by methodically laying out the
truth in a dignified, accessible manner. And it's
damned tough to find that truth every day with a mere
skeleton crew of reporters and editors.

This is terrible for democracy. I have been in 47
states of the USA since 9/11, and I can attest to the
horrible impact the deterioration of journalism has had
on the national psyche. I have found America a place of
great and confused fearfulness, in which cynically
placed bits of misinformation (e.g. Cheney's, "If John
Kerry had been President during the Cold War we would
have had thermonuclear war.") fall on ears that absorb
all, without filtration or fact-checking. Leading
journalists have tried to defend their mission,
pointing to the paucity of accurate, edited coverage
found in blogs, internet sites, Fox-TV and talk radio.
They argue that good old-fashioned newspaper editing is
the key to providing America with credible information,
forming the basis for wise voting and enlightened
governance. But their claims have been undermined by
Jayson Blair's blatant fabrications, Judy Miller's
bogus weapons of mass destruction coverage, the media's
inaccurate and inappropriate convictions of Wen Ho Lee,
Richard Jewell and Steven Hatfill, CBS' failure to
smell a con job regarding Bush's Texas Air Guard career
and, sadly, so on.

What does it mean when even journalists consider
comedian John -- "This is a fake news show, People!" --
Stewart one of the most reliable sources of "news"?

It would be easy to descend into despair, not only
about the state of journalism, but the future of
American democracy. But giving up is not an option.
There is too much at stake.

I would remind my Newsday colleagues that during the
bleak period that commenced with the appointment of
Willes, and persists today, some great journalism has
been done at the paper. A tiny, dedicated team of
foreign correspondents has literally risked their lives
to bring readers fresh, often ground-breaking news from
the battlefields of Iraq, Afghanistan and the Middle
East. Newsday readers are on top of details about the
sorry state of fiscal governance in Nassau County,
scandals in Suffolk County, Bloomberg's plans for the
west side of Manhattan, and the sad state of politics
in Albany. We still have some of the best film and
performing arts criticism in the country, an aggressive
photo department, tough sports columnists, under-
utilized specialty and investigative reporters and a
savvy business section.

So what is to be done?

I have no idea what Tribune corporate leaders in
Chicago have up their sleeves for Newsday, the LA
Times, Baltimore Sun, Chicago Tribune and the other
media outlets under their control. Despite rumors that
are rife in the newsrooms, you are also in the dark.
And you should remember that. During times of hardship
as extreme as those we have experienced at Newsday it
is easy to become paralyzed by rumors, unable to think
clearly about the work at hand. After all, people have
lost their jobs, and some were removed from the
building by armed guards, with only moments' notice.
Every Newsday employee is justified in his or her
concern about just how lean Chicago plans to make the
newspaper machine.

But rumors only feed fear, and personal fear is rarely
stimulus for good journalism. Now is the time to think
in imaginative ways. Salon and Slate have both gone
into the black; in nations like Ukraine and South
Africa courageous new forms of journalism are arising;
some of the blogs that clog the internet are actually
quite good and manage to keep politicians on their
toes. Opportunities for quality journalism are still
there, though you may need to scratch new surfaces,
open locked doors and nudge a few reticent editors to
find them. On a fundamental level, your readers
desperately need for you to try, over and over again,
to tell the stories, dig the dirt and bring them the
news.

Les Payne has often correctly pointed out that
Newsday's problems have never been rooted in the
institution's journalism: Rather, they have been
business issues. We have never been accused of
fostering a Jayson Blair, a bozo who accepted $250,000
from the Bush Administration to write flattering
stories, an investigative reporting team that relied on
a single source for a series that smeared the life of
an innocent man, acted as a conduit for the Department
of Defense for weapons of mass destruction
disinformation, or any of the other ghastly violations
of the public trust that have recently transpired.
Newsday's honor has, by its own accounts, been
besmirched by a series of lies committed on the
business/advertising/circulation side of the company.
(And few news organizations have covered on its pages
their own shortcomings as closely as has Newsday.) All
of us have been forced to pay a price for those
grievous actions. But nobody has charged that Newsday's
journalistic enterprise has failed to abide by the
highest ethical standards.

Newsday has always had more talent than it knew how to
use. So go ahead, Talent: Show them your stuff. I'll be
reading. (March 8th may be my last day as a Newsday
employee, but it won't mark the end of my readership.)

I thank each and every one of you who have been my
friends and colleagues since I joined Newsday in 1988.
I hope that we will stay in touch over coming years.
Make me regret leaving, Guys: Turn Newsday into a kick
ass paper that I will be begging to return to.

Bye for now, Laurie Garrett

http://www.c-span.org/journal/lauriegarrett.doc
Arturo_Vandelay
She criticized journalists for trying to make themselves the story and made herself the story in one fell swoop. Good job.
davis¹³
You are all cranked up these days. Got a meth lab in your basement?
Arturo_Vandelay
QUOTE(davis¹³ @ Mar 13 2005, 08:51 AM)
You are all cranked up these days. Got a meth lab in your basement?
[right][snapback]63963[/snapback][/right]


No, but I got a rocket in my pocket. When it's all lefties this board will go the way of C-Span. I may need a meth lab to keep up, but I do try. I'm not one to give up easily, but I'm not totally tied to the lost cause either.
celtcahill
By all means, blog it out and recruit as many repububs as you can.
Ward
QUOTE(Arturo_Vandelay @ Mar 13 2005, 08:50 AM)
She criticized journalists for trying to make themselves the story and made herself the story in one fell swoop. Good job.
[right][snapback]63962[/snapback][/right]

You caught that.

The letter was odd. It is supposedly a good-bye letter to her colleagues, whose work she implies she no longer respects. Her nostalgia for the old fashioned honorable, tenacious newsmen of yesteryear (1988?) is way overblown.

Why not just leave, and pass on the open rambling FO letter? Wouldn't that be the right thing to do to for "freinds and colleagues" who maybe can't affort to quit in disgust like princess Laurie?
Arturo_Vandelay
QUOTE(Ward @ Mar 13 2005, 09:30 AM)
You caught that.

The letter was odd.  It is supposedly a good-bye letter to her colleagues, whose work she implies she no longer respects.  Her nostalgia for the old fashioned honorable, tenacious newsmen of yesteryear (1988?) is way overblown. 

Why not just leave, and pass on the open rambling FO letter?  Wouldn't that be the right thing to do to for "freinds and colleagues" who maybe can't affort to quit in disgust like princess Laurie?
[right][snapback]63978[/snapback][/right]



You can take this job and restaff it.

A bit hysterical, but you get so few chances to play that last card on the way out.
Human Ills
QUOTE(Ward @ Mar 13 2005, 08:30 AM)
You caught that.

The letter was odd.  It is supposedly a good-bye letter to her colleagues, whose work she implies she no longer respects.  Her nostalgia for the old fashioned honorable, tenacious newsmen of yesteryear (1988?) is way overblown. 

Why not just leave, and pass on the open rambling FO letter?  Wouldn't that be the right thing to do to for "freinds and colleagues" who maybe can't affort to quit in disgust like princess Laurie?
[right][snapback]63978[/snapback][/right]


I don't understand how the current crop of corporate media-bashers would totally disregard the insiders' view of a former journalist.
The message of the letter was simple.
Stop trusting the news media.

That's a message that I welcome no matter how the evidence is laid out.
Arturo_Vandelay
You're just not supposed to trust Fox, Everything else is OK.
celtcahill
Here's an interesting media bias:

http://travel2.nytimes.com/2005/03/13/trav...ticle_popular_2

They think that a $ 40-45 meal is affordable.

I once interviewed in Topeka Kansas and went to the Menninger house - now (then) a bed & Breakfast with evening meals mainly french and mainly fish. The outfit paid for my redfish, and the Doc's swordfish.

Mine: $80 and the cheapest item on the menu.

His : $ 175.

One reason for not going to work for these guys.

.
Mizilus
QUOTE(Arturo_Vandelay @ Mar 13 2005, 08:44 AM)
You're just not supposed to trust Fox, Everything else is OK.
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Guess you dont read so good. Seems to me she was talking about everything that passes for news in this formerly great country ad that fux news and hate radio is the worst of the whole feotid pile.
Arturo_Vandelay
Talk about a feotid pile, look whose here. Mizerableness.
Arturo_Vandelay
And yes I know it's "who's".
celtcahill
Things I wish I could find and dowload:

Beside keeping alive the Murrow tradition of news commentary at CBS, " Sevareid, in keeping with another Murrow tradition, interviewed noted individuals such as West German Chancellor Willy Brandt, novelist Leo Rosten, and many others on the series Conversations with Eric Sevareid. Indeed in something of a spoof of this tradition he also did a conversation with King George III (played by Peter Ustinov) entitled The Last King in America. "

And Bill Murray's SNL tribute to Sevareid when he died.
Ward
QUOTE(celtcahill @ Mar 13 2005, 11:10 AM)
Things I wish I could find and dowload:

Beside keeping alive the Murrow tradition of news commentary at CBS, " Sevareid, in keeping with another Murrow tradition, interviewed noted individuals such as West German Chancellor Willy Brandt, novelist Leo Rosten, and many others on the series Conversations with Eric Sevareid. Indeed in something of a spoof of this tradition he also did a conversation with King George III (played by Peter Ustinov) entitled The Last King in America. "

And Bill Murray's SNL tribute to Sevareid when he died.
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Was it Sevareid or Harry Smith who hated being saddled with Baba Wawa?
Mizilus
QUOTE(Arturo_Vandelay @ Mar 13 2005, 10:10 AM)
And yes I know it's "who's".
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Like I give a sheise.
celtcahill
Harry

They really stuck it to him, too. One of the premier Broadcasters of his time and he got to be first in line for the shift to NewsTainment, and was forced to paricipate in it.

Miz

I'm sorry, but you're just too young for this stuff.

But 'Broadcast News' - the movie - shows the issues pretty well albeit after they had already played out.
celtcahill
Oh

That was directed at av, not Baba Wawa

Anyway it was the shift to newstainment that provided NSL with the fodder to do Baba Wawa.

THis was also the period where they (SNL) did the talking head rant at each other with Jane Curtin and Dan Akroyd.
lil bart
QUOTE(Ward @ Mar 13 2005, 08:30 AM)
You caught that.

The letter was odd.  It is supposedly a good-bye letter to her colleagues, whose work she implies she no longer respects.  Her nostalgia for the old fashioned honorable, tenacious newsmen of yesteryear (1988?) is way overblown. 

Why not just leave, and pass on the open rambling FO letter?  Wouldn't that be the right thing to do to for "freinds and colleagues" who maybe can't affort to quit in disgust like princess Laurie?
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I won't remember her name in a week, but I will remember her message, which is the same one I gave you a couple of weeks back. It's about profit-making and staff- (and therefore reporting, and therefore news) cutting. I did not read an implication she didn't respect her colleagues -- at all. Rather, cheers on if they can redeem the business of journalism from the business.

QUOTE(Human Ills @ Mar 13 2005, 08:42 AM)
I don't understand how the current crop of corporate media-bashers would totally disregard the insiders' view of a former journalist.
The message of the letter was simple.
Stop trusting the news media.

That's a message that I welcome no matter how the evidence is laid out.
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The simple message was to distrust the way these media enterprises are now and relatively recently being run.

I don't think any of you have a notion that Newsday, the Chicago Tribune and the LA Times have been some of the better newspapers in recent times.


QUOTE(Ward @ Mar 13 2005, 10:16 AM)
Was it Sevareid or Harry Smith who hated being saddled with Baba Wawa?
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Harry Reasoner.

Rightfully aghast.
SpaceCowboy
user posted image
Nomarchy
A propos nothing, it's just hillarious to hear the CEO of SBC claim that the merger between SBC and AT&T will ENHANCE competition.

Black is white and up is down.
FriendJudy
I was particulary amused by his comments about how much he dislikes his company benefiting from goverment subsidies.

Honest, he really said that!
Russ Logan
QUOTE(Nomarchy @ Mar 15 2005, 11:53 PM)
A propos nothing, it's just hillarious to hear the CEO of SBC claim that the merger between SBC and AT&T will ENHANCE competition.

Black is white and up is down.
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Judge Greenwood call your service! (He's the guy that broke up the old AT&T, aka "Ma Bell" into the Regional Bell Operating Companies (RBOCs) - then Southwestren Bell, Pacific Bell, Bell Central, Southeastern Bell, Bell Atlantic, Western Bell, New England Bell for local dialtone. He also allowed the long-distance competitiion to be AT&T and all comers (notably MCI and Sprint)). Over time thes folk have merged, changed names, new long-distance, and multi-service carriers have emerged - thanks in part to the abortive and now largely aborted Telecommunicatons Act of 1996. Now the RBOCs can do long-distance and local dialtone, the LDs can offer dialtone, and everyone can do wireless. Everybody is scrambling to offer enhanced services (where the real profit is - dialtone and basic LD are mere commodities and virtually no profit) - to the point that it is primarily the wireless players who are the movers and shakers, even buying up the more landline based RBOCs - Qwest bought Western Bell, Verizon bought Bell Atlantic and the former New England Bell - NYNEX, Southeastern and Southwestern bell essentially merged and became SBC, Ameritech bought up Bell Central. WorldCom bought up MCI, Sprint keeps looking for a buyer, and Qwest and Verizon are in a bidding war for the what is left of WorldCom (now MCI). AT&T went brain-dead with a dinosaur business model and are now on the block and SBC wants to expand to protect themselves from either an enhanced Qwest or Verizon.

In essence the old AT&T break-up structure is being re-molded and those that are not positioned to compete as super-RBOCs will get consumed. Personal prediction: in 5 years there will be only 4 major players - SBC, Verizon, PacBell, and T-Mobile. The rest will have been merged.

YMMV.
Nomarchy
QUOTE(Russ Logan @ Mar 16 2005, 09:10 AM)
Judge Greenwood call your service! (He's the guy that broke up the old AT&T, aka "Ma Bell" into the Regional Bell Operating Companies (RBOCs) - then Southwestren Bell, Pacific Bell, Bell Central, Southeastern Bell, Bell Atlantic, Western Bell, New England Bell for local dialtone.  He also allowed the long-distance competitiion to be AT&T and all comers (notably MCI and Sprint)).  Over time thes folk have merged, changed names, new long-distance, and multi-service carriers have emerged - thanks in part to the abortive and now largely aborted Telecommunicatons Act of 1996.  Now the RBOCs can do long-distance and local dialtone, the LDs can offer dialtone, and everyone can do wireless.  Everybody is scrambling to offer enhanced services (where the real profit is - dialtone and basic LD are mere commodities and virtually no profit) - to the point that it is primarily the wireless players who are the movers and shakers, even buying up the more landline based RBOCs - Qwest bought Western Bell, Verizon bought Bell Atlantic and the former New England Bell - NYNEX, Southeastern and Southwestern bell essentially merged and became SBC, Ameritech bought up Bell Central.  WorldCom bought up MCI, Sprint keeps looking for a buyer, and Qwest and Verizon are in a bidding war for the what is left of WorldCom (now MCI).    AT&T went brain-dead with a dinosaur business model and are now on the block and SBC wants to expand to protect themselves from either an enhanced Qwest or Verizon.

In essence the old AT&T break-up structure is being re-molded and those that are not positioned to compete as super-RBOCs will get consumed.  Personal prediction: in 5 years there will be only 4 major players - SBC, Verizon, PacBell, and T-Mobile.  The rest will have been merged.

YMMV.
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To hear them boys talkin', any merger that will allow the now merged single company itself to compete better or more successfully is tantamount to a merger that will enhance competition, as such.
davis¹³
QUOTE(SpaceCowboy @ Mar 16 2005, 12:52 AM)
user posted image
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This is great. I love it.
Bee
Well, we have a new FCC chairman.

It could be worse. Much worse.

QUOTE
Bush Said to Name Kevin Martin as New F.C.C. Chairman
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Published: March 16, 2005

WASHINGTON (AP) -- President Bush has chosen Kevin Martin, a member of the Federal Communications Commission, to head the agency that has recently gained notoriety for clamping down on indecency in broadcasting.

Martin, who has been an FCC commissioner since 2001, replaces Michael Powell as chairman. Powell, son of former Secretary of State Colin Powell, had announced in January that he was leaving this month after four years in the top post.
Advertisement

The White House was to officially announce Martin's appointment later Wednesday, said an FCC official who declined to be named ahead of the announcement.

The FCC has taken on an increasingly critical role in the life of America with the explosive growth in the telecommunications industry.
FriendJudy
QUOTE(Bee @ Mar 18 2005, 04:54 PM)
Well, we have a new FCC chairman.

It could be worse. Much worse.
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You have NO IDEA how big a laugh I'm getting, that Viacom thinks it's grown too much and become 'unwieldy', and is thinking of breaking itself up.
Bee
QUOTE(FriendJudy @ Mar 18 2005, 07:06 PM)
You have NO IDEA how big a laugh I'm getting, that Viacom thinks it's grown too much and become 'unwieldy', and is thinking of breaking itself up.
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Martin lobbied pretty hard with Powell to get some of the more disgusting aspects of the 'now defunct' FCC rules changes taken out before he voted with the repubs. That's why he and Powell didn't get along.

Although he does seem a bit too sympathetic to the Parents Television Council, it's really just noise compared to the bigger issues the FCC is facing.

QUOTE
Mr. Martin has taken some of the more aggressive approaches in indecency cases, dissenting from a series of opinions in which the agency either found no violation or did not issue what he believed was a significant enough punishment. For those votes, he was strongly endorsed for the job by some conservative organizations that have pushed the agency to come down harder on radio and television broadcasters.

"Chairman Martin's leadership record on the indecency issue shows his commitment to serving the public interest," said L. Brent Bozell, president of the Parents Television Council, which has filed more indecency complaints than any other group.

Mr. Martin also differed with Mr. Powell on rules governing the size of the nation's largest media conglomerates, forcing Mr. Powell to compromise on some elements of that package - most notably the number of stations that the networks could own - in order for the chairman to find the three votes he needed to attempt to deregulate those rules. (Ultimately, however, Mr. Powell was foiled when a court blocked the agency from imposing the new rules, which are now once again before the commission.)
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/16/politics/16cnd-fcc.html


Pretty succinct run down of this 38-year-old chairman, in charge of some fairly important influence on the media, (he has the least experience in the FCC--I'd much rather have one of the Dems). Yet, as I said, considering Bushies other appointments lately, this could have been a lot, LOT worse.
lil bart
QUOTE
Weekly paper wins Pulitzer for investigative reporting

LA Times, Wall Street Journal win two top journalism awards

Monday, April 4, 2005

NEW YORK (AP) -- A reporter for an alternative news weekly that exposed the sexual liaison former Oregon governor Neil Goldschmidt had with an underage girl while he was Portland's mayor was awarded the Pulitzer Prize for investigative reporting on Monday.

Nigel Jaquiss of the Willamette (Oregon) Week won for investigative reporting for revealing Goldschmidt's sexual misconduct with a 14-year-old girl.

The announcement was made as Pulitzers were released Monday in journalism and in the arts.

The Los Angeles Times won two Pulitzer Prizes, including the public service award for exposing deadly medical problems and racial injustice at an inner-city hospital. The Wall Street Journal also won two.

The revelation by the Williamette Week drove Goldschmidt, a high-level consultant and power broker, from public life.


As the award was announced in the offices of the Willamette Week, tears came to Jaquiss' eyes. Jaquiss is a former Wall Street stock trader who moved to Portland eight years ago to pursue a career in journalism.

"I'm really surprised -- it's just a tremendous honor. I never thought it would happen to me," Jaquiss told colleagues.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/04/04/pulitzers.journalism.ap/


Posting this in the media bias thread. Willamette Week isn't far from a great paper, but they got on this story -- many years late and a few steps ahead of the other media, including the spectacularly cowardly and insider-entwined (Portland) Oregonian.

Goldschmidt is still operative behind the scenes. His fiscal manipulations have significantly changed the character and structure of Portland and the state. None of his fiscal deals came to light until his sexual shenanigans burnt through the bias to the light of day.

The story of that girl is an interesting one in its own right. My short take is: her parents virtually whored her out. She's led a rather dismal life since, from what would have been a comer and privileged background.

I saw Goldschmidt speak when I was a student at Beaver U and he was running for gov. I thought he was slick and slimey. Guess I never did take to the slick & slimey sorts, especially masquerading as New Democrats.

Arturo_Vandelay
She was raped for three years starting when she was 14?

QUOTE
In Oregon, if an adult has sex with someone under the age of 16, it is considered rape. (According to law-enforcement officials, however, the statute of limitations for prosecution has long since passed.)


Well two years at least.

Reminds me of Brian's Mother in Life of Brian, talking about her liaison with Naughtius Maximus.

"You mean you were raped?"

"Well, at first"

I guess there is no statute of limitations on the press.
SpaceCowboy
QUOTE(lil bart @ Apr 4 2005, 09:42 PM)
"The Los Angeles Times won two Pulitzer Prizes, including the public service award for exposing deadly medical problems and racial injustice at an inner-city hospital. The Wall Street Journal also won two."
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Racial injustice may have been the effect of the King-Drew hospital situation, but it sure wasn’t the cause. In fact, I find that characterization to be somewhat strange, having followed the LA Times' series. King Drew was established after the Watts riot as a palliative to the black community. It was to be a black hospital, run by the black community. It is also a teaching hospital, and the most expensive hospital in the area in costs per patient day. It became a fiefdom for second rate Doctors, administrators, and politicians. My short take is that PC considerations have prevented anything effective being done to fix it.

Here is the Times’ series on King Drew – it’s a clusterfarg.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/na...-home-headlines
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