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Arturo_Vandelay
No doubt. Look around and a lot of pollution has been cleaned up, but with more people in the world it gets harder and harder to take care of people and the environment. Less pollution per person and more people.

Technology is lucky to keep up, much less get ahead.
Bee
QUOTE(SpeedRacerXxtreme @ May 28 2005, 10:06 PM)
Vegas has too much damn money.  Or so it would seem by the way it gets wasted. Even in a drought.

Still, water is a commodity and subject to market pressures. It's a tradeoff. Too much environmentalism and we couldn't afford to pay for clean water, too much pollution and we can't clean the water we have to safe levels.
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A "trade-off?" Or a balance?

I think that when companies go out of business, it's bad, but when a body of water gets polluted it's deadly.

I think we had a pretty good balance going and were making progress, but it seems like we're losing that now.

In a hurry.
Bee
QUOTE(SpeedRacerXxtreme @ May 28 2005, 10:06 PM)
Vegas has too much damn money.  Or so it would seem by the way it gets wasted. Even in a drought.
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Been through the central valley in California?

Sprinklers going in the rain.

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SRX
I haven't seen near as much pollution as waste. I was reading about a guy treating waste from hog farm water. Good enough to drink. (he actually drank some, though I wouldn't recommend it.)
SRX
QUOTE(Bee @ May 28 2005, 07:20 PM)
Been through the central valley in California?

Sprinklers going in the rain.

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Sure, same a lot of places. The water just runs off into the sewer.
Bee
QUOTE(SpeedRacerXxtreme @ May 28 2005, 10:23 PM)
I haven't seen near as much pollution as waste. I was reading about a guy treating waste from hog farm water. Good enough to drink. (he actually drank some, though I wouldn't recommend it.)
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It tends to be worse in industrial areas like the upper midwest (--ask davis about Peoria--) and the Northeast. That's where a lot of the crap drifts. Asthma in children is near epidemic levels here.

Arturo_Vandelay
Tucson uses something like a quarter less water than Phoenix. It's about everyone saving a bit and being just a little bit frugal. Mostly just basic awareness.
Bee
Doesn't anyone remember when that river near cleveland and Lake Erie caught on fire?

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http://www.on.ec.gc.ca/glwqa/sht-history-e.html
SRX
QUOTE(Bee @ May 28 2005, 07:26 PM)
It tends to be worse in industrial areas like the upper midwest (--ask davis about Peoria--) and the Northeast. That's where a lot of the crap drifts. Asthma in children is near epidemic levels here.
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Places where people are used to using the river as a trash bin. It's an old habit that's hard to break. Still, we're a ways from the flaming rivers of just a few decades ago.
SRX
QUOTE(Bee @ May 28 2005, 07:30 PM)
Doesn't anyone remember when that river near cleveland and Lake Erie caught on fire?

sad.gif

http://www.on.ec.gc.ca/glwqa/sht-history-e.html
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Funny you should mention it. (see above) The Cuyahoga? SP.

Will check your link now.
Bee
QUOTE(SpeedRacerXxtreme @ May 28 2005, 10:32 PM)
Funny you should mention it. (see above) The Cuyahoga? SP.

Will check your link now.
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Yes, I just want to stay away away from that. Far away. I've read that that's how the rivers are in China. They have very little if any environmental controls.
Bee
QUOTE(Arturo_Vandelay @ May 28 2005, 10:27 PM)
Tucson uses something like a quarter  less water than Phoenix. It's about everyone saving a bit and being just a little bit frugal. Mostly just basic awareness.
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Indeed.

Maybe they should outlaw auto sprinklers.

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Create a new job. Sprinkler minders.
SRX
Interesting link. I'll copy it and read it when I'm not on battery power.
SRX
QUOTE(Bee @ May 28 2005, 07:34 PM)
Yes, I just want to stay away away from that. Far away. I've read that that's how the rivers are in China. They have very little if any environmental controls.
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I took a cruise on one. You don't even want to know. And the air is no better. No sun, just an eerie glow.
Bee
QUOTE(SpeedRacerXxtreme @ May 28 2005, 10:38 PM)
I took a cruise on one. You don't even want to know. And the air is no better. No sun, just an eerie glow.
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That must of really been something. I work with a man that goes to China every 5 years or so to see family. Very nice person. He likes it here.

The thing is, that crap over there will eventually find it's way over here. Air currents...sea currents. Not a nice thought at all.

Hey AV--didn't we argue about some cloud of noxious pollution that was supposed to hit the U.S.? It wasn't as bad as predicted--but it wasn't good, if I remember correctly.
Arturo_Vandelay
I got hit by a Chinese (or Mongolian) dust cloud a ways back. Not sure if it was really all pollution or some mix of dust and pollution. Really sucked because it inflamed my asthma. I don't get attacks often but some things trigger it and that Chinese dust seemed to do the trick.
SRX
QUOTE(Bee @ May 28 2005, 07:41 PM)
That must of really been something. I work with a man that goes to China every 5 years or so to see family. Very nice person. He likes it here.


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I got sick. Not horrible, but memorable enough. You have to be very careful about the food and water. The natives handle it no problem, but the veggies aren't raised nearly as clean as what we are used to.
Bart Katz
QUOTE(Arturo_Vandelay @ May 28 2005, 10:23 AM)
Don't usually think of Iraq as having marshes. I guess they just usually show the dry parts of Iraq on the news. With the Tigris and Euphrates it's not like they don't have water.
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Takes awhile to clean all that up after Saddam polluted the rivers with dead bodies and raw turds.
SRX
Missile parts, WMDs, Chemical agents, who knows
Bart Katz
QUOTE(SpeedRacerXxtreme @ May 28 2005, 10:01 PM)
Missile parts, WMDs, Chemical agents, who knows
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Yeah. Who knows what all?
Arturo_Vandelay
The day the US hit Baghdad NBC was saying they tested the water in the Tigris and found chemicals. Never heard any more. How fast does a few barrels of deadly toxin dilute to nothing in a big river?
Bix12
QUOTE(Bee @ May 28 2005, 10:30 PM)
Doesn't anyone remember when that river near cleveland and Lake Erie caught on fire?

sad.gif

http://www.on.ec.gc.ca/glwqa/sht-history-e.html
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I remember that!

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SRX
Was that you playing with matches?
Bee
QUOTE(SpeedRacerXxtreme @ May 28 2005, 11:01 PM)
Missile parts, WMDs, Chemical agents, who knows
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Like in China?

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Bix12
Wind map shows top sites for turbines


Emma Marris
Earth's breezes prove fast enough to provide plenty of power.


© C Archer & M Jacobson

Modellers have devised a map that could guide the positioning of wind turbines. It shows wind speeds 80 metres above the ground,which is the right height to turn most turbines' blades and generate electricity.

Coming up with speed measurements at this height was difficult, according to Cristina Archer, an environmental engineer at Stanford University, California, who co-authored the study with her Stanford colleague Mark Jacobson. Most windspeed recordings are made about 10 metres off the ground, but wind speed increases the higher you go.


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I think you take the number shown & multiply by 3.3 to get a wind speed of kilometers per hour...the article said that 25 kph was a minimum windspeed needed to produce any meaningful amounts of power...




http://www.nature.com/news/2005/050523/full/050523-8.html
Bix12
Darth Subsidious


Exxon says it won't dabble in clean energy -- too many darn subsidies

With oil prices soaring, Exxon is perfectly happy pumping and refining the black stuff, thanks. Despite persistent pressure from shareholder groups and activists, the company says it has no plans to invest in clean energies like solar and wind. You see, solar and wind are still a small sliver of the energy pie and they -- gasp! -- rely on federal subsidies. "It's an uneconomic niche and our business is not built around the expectation of a bunch of subsidies to make a profit," said Exxon's Scott Nauman, struggling to keep a straight face. "We want a business that is robust on its own merits." Of course, some greens point out that the oil industry gets billions in direct subsidies and tax breaks, and also benefits from externalizing the costs of its pollution onto the public, from massive public investment in roads and highways to carry oil-guzzling vehicles, from massive federal subsidies to agribusinesses that use petroleum-based fertilizers, and from a lax regulatory environment that allows automakers to delay improving fuel economy. Ah, those daffy greens.


http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory?id=803825
Arturo_Vandelay
McDonalds isn't going to be making cars either. Time for a specialized company to find the most efficient alternate energy source and mass produce it to sell at an affordable price.

As voters we should tell our reps to make laws that promote alternative energy sources at reasonable cost.
Bix12
Baby chamelians...



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Bee
QUOTE(Bix12 @ Jun 1 2005, 02:43 PM)
Baby chamelians...
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Oh my
look at them

I looove curly tailed chamelions. But they don't do well in captivity

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Bix12
QUOTE(Bee @ Jun 1 2005, 02:52 PM)
Oh my
look at them

I looove curly tailed chamelions. But they don't do well in captivity

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Yer thinking of chameliOns, whereas those are chameliAns....

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Bix12
Maya, the jaguar, & daughter....



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Bix12
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Heaven.
Arturo_Vandelay
HMMMMMM no people.
Bee
QUOTE(Arturo_Vandelay @ Jun 3 2005, 11:24 AM)
HMMMMMM no people.
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Maybe they're in the cabin, bit of a wake there.....

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Bix12
QUOTE(Bee @ Jun 3 2005, 01:00 PM)
Maybe they're in the cabin, bit of a wake there.....

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If this boats a-rockin', don't come a-knockin'...

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Arturo_Vandelay
QUOTE(Bix12 @ Jun 3 2005, 02:16 PM)
If this boats a-rockin', don't come a-knockin'...

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Looks like a daysailer. Tighter for two than the drivers side of my old VW bug.

Still, not impossible. rolleyes.gif
Bix12
QUOTE(Arturo_Vandelay @ Jun 3 2005, 11:22 PM)
smile.gif

Looks like a daysailer. Tighter for two than the drivers side of my old VW bug.

Still, not impossible. rolleyes.gif
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Yes, indeed...as a matter of fact, the impossibilty decreases in direct proportion to the amount of firm resolve one has....

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My all time record for tight squeezes was in a mummy-type sleeping bag during a light snow flurry in a meadow not far from Mt. Humphrey, just outside good ol'Flagstaff, Az...

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Bix12
Foreign Predations


Foreign corporations spend big to influence U.S. environmental law
By Amanda Griscom Little
03 Jun 2005

Cold, hard, foreign cash.Lobbying has become as much a part of American culture as apple pie, blue jeans, and monster trucks, but it's not just U.S. companies playing the game. Increasingly, foreign corporations are spending big bucks to push their interests in Washington, D.C., many with the intent of weakening environmental protections -- from changing rules on the disposal of hazardous waste to opening more lands to mining and drilling to clearing the path for more nuclear-power development.

From 1998 through 2004, total annual expenditures on lobbying the federal government nearly doubled, from $1.6 billion to an estimated $3 billion-plus, according to "LobbyWatch: How Private Interests Influence Public Policy," an ongoing investigation conducted by the Center for Public Integrity. Roughly 650 of the companies peddling their agendas in D.C. are based outside of the U.S., in 78 other countries, CPI reports.

"Basically, what this means from an environmental standpoint is that you have foreign companies helping to determine how we regulate pollution that affects American backyards, but has no direct impact on the home countries of these corporate interests," said Alex Knott, LobbyWatch project manager.

http://www.grist.org/news/muck/2005/06/03/...tml?source=muck


Of course, we would never go into another country, and pollute their environment for financial gain...
Arturo_Vandelay
QUOTE(Bix12 @ Jun 3 2005, 10:35 PM)
Yes, indeed...as a matter of fact, the impossibilty decreases in direction  proportion to the amount of firm resolve one has....

tongue.gif

My all time record for tight squeezes was in a mummy-type sleeping bag during a light snow flurry in a meadow not far from  Mt. Humphrey, just outside good ol'Flagstaff, Az...

cool.gif
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When you're 19 there is no limit to resolve in regards to sex. At 40 not much lack of resolve when it comes to staying warm, but a bit less resolve on the sex end.
Bix12
QUOTE(Arturo_Vandelay @ Jun 4 2005, 12:10 PM)
When you're 19 there is no limit to resolve in regards to sex. At 40 not much lack of resolve when it comes to staying warm, but a bit less resolve on the sex end.
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Perhaps a bit... dry.gif

Perhaps.

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Bee
QUOTE(Bix12 @ Jun 4 2005, 05:00 PM)
Perhaps a bit... dry.gif

Perhaps.

  rolleyes.gif
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Braggart.

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Bix12
QUOTE(Bee @ Jun 4 2005, 05:12 PM)
Braggart.

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Bix12
"I fell down, down, down, in a burning ring of fire...I went down, down, down, and that ring kept getting higher..."


Mexico Volcano Spews Ash on Villages


Jun 5, 10:53 PM (ET)

By MORGAN LEE

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MEXICO CITY (AP) - A volcano in western Mexico erupted on Sunday, spewing burning rock and raining ash on nearby villages, authorities said.

The eruption at the 12,533-foot Colima volcano, located 430 miles northwest of Mexico City, sent a massive column of black ash into the clouds above.

Satellite images suggested the plume of ash extended 2 1/2 to three miles into the sky, according to the Jalisco state Civil Protection Department.

"It's an event that is among the strongest in the past 20 years," said department spokesman Jorge Sapien.

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Ash fell on the nearby settlements of Tonila and San Marcos, but evacuations were ruled out after authorities toured communities near the volcano. There were no reports of injuries.

Volcano specialists were to meet Monday to discuss whether to extend a safety perimeter around the volcano that currently stretches at least five miles from the crater.

Roiling debris from the explosion at 2:20 p.m. engulfed the peak and sparked small fires on the lower slopes.

The Colima Volcano had staged two spectacular eruptions Thursday night and Friday morning, following smaller explosive eruptions on May 23 and May 30.

Known as the Volcano of Fire, the summit's first recorded eruption came in 1560. The volcanic system is considered to be among the most active and potentially the most destructive of the volcanoes in Mexico.

A 1913 blast left a crater 1,650 feet deep.
Friend Judy
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/nation/3204347
QUOTE
May 30, 2005, 10:33PM

Peeling back corn's genetic profile
The plant's wild ancestor, teosinte, could hold the key to a better crop
By ERIC HAND
St. Louis Post-dispatch

ST. LOUIS - In one hand, plant geneticist Michael McMullen holds black teosinte kernels, the seeds of what scientists say is the grassy ancestor of corn. In the other, he holds needle-nose pliers — definitely needed to crack the tough hulls into a few starchy bits.

"If you have squirrel teeth, you might be able to eat this," said McMullen, a U.S. Department of Agriculture researcher at the University of Missouri at Columbia.

The weedy teosinte plant, with its miserly portfolio of kernels, barely resembles its bountiful descendent. McMullen and his colleagues have pegged the genes responsible for the dramatic transformation. They think wild teosinte, with its high genetic diversity, still has a lot to offer corn while inbreeding eventually could confound the search for higher-yielding hybrids.

"If you want to make corn even better, these are genes you want to work on," said McMullen, tanned from days in the field with his experimental crops.

Corn researcher Brad Barbazuk said McMullen's work will have a big impact on the plant science industry.

"By understanding where we've lost genetic diversity over time, we can look at reintroducing diversity," said Barbazuk, who works at the Donald Danforth Plant Science Center in Creve Coeur, Mo., a nonprofit research institute.

The work, a joint project among the University of Missouri, the University of California at Irvine and the University of Wisconsin at Madison, was published Friday in the journal Science.

Teosinte is a hardy grass of Mexico and Central America with ears of just eight kernels protected in a stony casing. The seeds can be dispersed after passing intact through animals' digestive systems.

Corn has about 500 soft kernels per ear. It needs human cultivation, human protection, to survive. Its seeds would otherwise be eaten by animals — or else corn seedlings, undispersed and growing in place, would wither in the shadow of existing plants.

Scientists say that between 6,000 and 9,000 years ago, ancient breeders tried to tame teosinte. Year after year, they took the best teosinte plants — plants, perhaps, with bigger or softer or more kernels — and crossed them with each other. Thousands of years later, Native Americans had corn.

The problem is the inbreeding. Most corn genes have retained 57 percent of the diversity of teosinte genes, the researchers found. But for at least 1,200 of corn's 50,000 genes — the genes Native Americans were winnowing year after year — there's almost no diversity at all. That makes it increasingly difficult for modern-day breeders to stumble on outstanding traits that would make for better strains of corn.

"The yields are becoming less easy to improve," Barbazuk said. "You're pretty much tapped out."

Eric Sachs, a geneticist at agricultural products developer Monsanto, concurred. "The improvements through conventional breeding are beginning to plateau," he said.

In the paper, the researchers offered a list of 30 genes with a high probability of controlling some important corn characteristic. They aren't sure what all the genes do. Some control the nutrition content, others might control kernel size. But instead of cooking with a 50,000-ingredient recipe, plant scientists can begin experimenting with 30.

"Things like this will make it simpler," Barbazuk said. "There will be less shooting in the dark."


Just thought that was interesting.

Bix12
QUOTE(Friend Judy @ Jun 7 2005, 06:21 PM)
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/nation/3204347
Just thought that was interesting.
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It's very interesting...getting a better crop the olde fashioned way...

Always the best way.

It beat's heck outa the gentically mutilated....errrr...i mean enhanced stuff they're trying to shove down our throats (literally) these days.
Bee
In the New York Times today.

QUOTE
Editorial
A (White) House Party for Lobbyists

Published: June 9, 2005

President Bush moved quickly after the 2000 election to fill many of the important environmental and energy jobs with corporate lobbyists who had spent their careers trying to weaken the laws they would then swear to protect. Most were vetted by Karl Rove and Dick Cheney. The result has been an erosion of the regulatory framework protecting the country's air, water, public lands and wildlife, combined with a chronic unwillingness by the administration to address difficult environmental issues.

Anyone needing evidence of industry's influence need look no further than Andrew C. Revkin's article in Wednesday's Times involving the handiwork of one Philip Cooney, an important but heretofore obscure official who serves as chief of staff of the White House Council on Environmental Quality.

Mr. Cooney spent his immediate pre-White House years as a lawyer at the American Petroleum Institute, where he helped organize the oil industry's fight against limits on greenhouse gas emissions from factories and automobiles. Mr. Revkin reported that Mr. Cooney had been fighting the same fight in his new job by sanitizing government reports in an effort to cast doubt on the link - a link accepted by mainstream scientists - between climate change and the emissions caused by burning fossil fuels.

Creating uncertainty about that connection, of course, reduces the chances that anything meaningful will be done to clamp down on those emissions and thus to discomfit Mr. Bush's corporate allies.

This is hardly the first time this administration has tinkered with the truth. In 2002 and 2003, about the same time Mr. Cooney was deploying his literary skills, the White House censored two Environmental Protection Agency reports that linked warming to industrial activity.

It's sad to think of a White House run by people who believe that a problem can be edited out of existence.


Couldn't agree more.

Bix12
QUOTE(Bee @ Jun 9 2005, 08:12 AM)
In the New York Times today.
Couldn't agree more.
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Nothing like hiring the fox to watch over the chicken coop...

One needn't look at this administration very closely at all to see that the various appointments follow that same modus operandi...time after time, the Bush crew reitorates their unwavering allegience to the pursuit of power, and money, as indicated in every action that is taken.

The motivating factor behind everything this administration does is Greed, with a capital "G"...it's just that simple, and it's just that ugly.

As I've said before, a little old school smite, or 2, would suit us folks, as a community, nicely.

GRRRRRRRR........

mad.gif
Bix12
...more on your post, Bee...

White House Downplays Climate Report Edits


By H. JOSEF HEBERT, Associated Press Writer

Wednesday, June 8, 2005

(06-08) 16:07 PDT WASHINGTON (AP) --


The White House said Wednesday that changes in government reports on global warming by a former oil industry lobbyist were part of a normal review and did not violate a pledge to rely on sound science.


"The facts point out that our reports are based on the best scientific knowledge and they're based on the inputs of scientists," White House press secretary Scott McClellan said.


Documents provided to the Government Accountability Project, a nonprofit group that helps whistleblowers, showed that a White House official who once headed the oil industry's lobbying on climate change edited administration reports on the topic in 2002 and 2003.


The official, Philip Cooney, is chief of staff of the White House Council on Environmental Quality. Cooney, a lawyer without a background in science, worked earlier for the American Petroleum Institute where he headed its climate issues program.


His changes in several federal reports tended to emphasize the uncertainty of climate science and the environmental impact of climate change, according to a summary of the documents provided by the advocacy group.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?.../w160739D74.DTL


LIES, LIES, LIES, LIES, & MORE LIES!!!
Bix12
So Long and Thanks for All the Fish Nets

Changes in fishing gear could save thousands of cetaceans a year

Low-cost changes to commercial fishing gear could prevent the deaths of tens of thousands of whales, porpoises, and dolphins every year, according to the World Wildlife Fund. About 1,000 cetaceans drown every day after becoming entangled in fishing nets, primarily gillnets, which are hard for the animals to see or sense with their sonar. WWF says 10 porpoise and dolphin species will probably go extinct if nothing is changed. Dolphins -- revered the world over for their intelligence, complex behaviors, and irresistible cuteness -- are disappearing from waters off the coasts of the Philippines, Indonesia, Ghana, Argentina, and other nations around the globe. The U.S. has led in making cetacean-saving modifications to its fishing fleet, like acoustic alarms on nets in the Gulf of Maine, cutting dolphin deaths by a third from 1993 to 2003. But the rest of the world has been slow to follow suit.

Is this any way to thank Flipper for all the help he gave Sandy and Bud?

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n...L&sn=001&sc=966


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Bix12


Time lapse photogragh of star trails taken from one of the coldest places on Earth:


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The South Pole
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