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SRX
QUOTE(davis¹³ @ Dec 1 2005, 08:44 PM)
that is one twisted show. And that is probably why artie keeps me around.
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I have to admit to a weakness for cartoons. Used to read Archie, well into my 20s. Had (have) a thing for Betty. And travelling I hate to get involved in movies, so I end up watching cartoons as well as news.
davis¹³
"I've been called ugly, fugly, pug fugly...but never ugly ugly."

user posted image
davis¹³
I'm an artist. I enjoy cartoons and animation. I want to do one of those little moving avatars but I'm not sure how I can do it. I animated my friend morphing into a hulking monster. But I don't know how to convert a windows movie maker file to something I could host on a site. Plus I really don't do it enough to pay for one for a year.
davis¹³
QUOTE
Had (have) a thing for Betty.


blink.gif That's a little more than odd. laugh.gif laugh.gif Although some teens really dig the Laura Croft Tomb Raider games.
SRX
QUOTE(davis¹³ @ Dec 1 2005, 08:58 PM)
blink.gif That's a little more than odd.  laugh.gif  laugh.gif Although some teens really dig the Laura Croft Tomb Raider games.
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You like Veronica better? dry.gif

I heard there was a glitch in one that allowed the player to see Croft naked, but I don't know that first hand.

Archie's crew was in The Simpsons once. I think Moose tossed Homer out of Archie's jallopy with the admonishment "duh, and stay outta Riverdale". Can't remember why though.
davis¹³
that was a good one
Bart Katz
QUOTE(Friend Judy @ Dec 1 2005, 09:07 PM)
Uh, you DID note the disclaimer at the bottom of your "poll", right?
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SOP CYA, it's understood.
Bart Katz
QUOTE(augustweed @ Dec 1 2005, 09:07 PM)
I can't see CNN having much of a choice.  Once you begin to participate in "the big lie," there's no turning back.  Every major news portal is affected.  Even blogger communities like this one are affected.  Yes.  There is likely at least one paid operative or more monitoring and participating in the 'C-Span sucks community" too (in the interest of their masters of course).
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Monitoring this one doesn't pay nearly as well as monitoring the old CNN and CSpan threads did. rolleyes.gif rolleyes.gif
inyerface

The Abramoff Effect
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20051219/nichols
The burgeoning controversy surrounding Jack Abramoff, a conservative lobbyist whose Washington ties stretched deep into the Bush White House and the Republican Capitol, has yet to gain anywhere near the media attention accorded the CIA Plamegate leak investigation or DeLay's indictment.
Posted Dec 2, 2005 07:52 AM PST
Category: ISRAELI SPYING

Why is the media trying to minimize Abramoff? Why is he being protected? Why is his association with Mohammed Atta not seen as a link from Abramoff to 9-11? http://www.cannabisculture.com/forums/show...sb=5&o=&fpart=1 If Atta was a fanatical Muslim, why would he be visiting Abramoff's casino ship, if it was not to meet with Abramoff?

"Evidence linking these Israelis to 9/11 is classified. I cannot tell you about evidence that has been gathered. It's classified information." -- US official quoted in Carl Cameron's Fox News report on the Israeli spy ring and its connections to 9-11.
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/spyring.html
inyerface
Right now, government shills are working hard to trick web sites into running the claim that a passenger jet did not really hit the Pentagon.

This is an old intelligence trick called "Poisoning the well", the intentional promotion of lies to blend with an embarrassing truth to discredit it. The government shills are trying to conceal real news stories such as the Israeli Spy Ring and its connections to the attacks on the World Trade Towers. So, we get hoax stories poured onto the net by government propagandists, to be used by the media to attack the credibility of anyone who dares doubt the official story.

http://whatreallyhappened.com/ppfinal.html
Bee
QUOTE(inyerface @ Dec 8 2005, 02:40 PM)
Right now, government shills are working hard to trick web sites into running the claim that a passenger jet did not really hit the Pentagon.

This is an old intelligence trick called "Poisoning the well", the intentional promotion of lies to blend with an embarrassing truth to discredit it. The government shills are trying to conceal real news stories such as the Israeli Spy Ring and its connections to the attacks on the World Trade Towers. So, we get hoax stories poured onto the net by government propagandists, to be used by the media to attack the credibility of anyone who dares doubt the official story.

http://whatreallyhappened.com/ppfinal.html
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That's what Mr, Grig was saying a while back. I think that it is certain that something is being covered up.
gtessex
QUOTE(Bee @ Dec 9 2005, 11:14 AM)
That's what Mr, Grig was saying a while back. I think that it is certain that something is being covered up.
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Bee,

Don't pay any attention to either one of these 'dreamers'.

They are both 'nuttier' than a rather large Christmas fruitcake! smile.gif laugh.gif
CharlieRay
QUOTE(gtessex @ Dec 9 2005, 09:53 AM)
Bee,

Don't pay any attention to either one of these 'dreamers'.

They are both 'nuttier' than a rather large Christmas fruitcake!  smile.gif  laugh.gif
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I like what Grig said a while back... "right more often by accident than you are on purpose". laugh.gif
inyerface
http://reopen911.org

$1,000,000 Contest
Prove Explosives NOT Used!

Dec 7, 8, 9 Pearl Harbor Day
The New Pearl Harbor- Confronting the Evidence

On January 28, 1998, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Jeb Bush, Steve Forbes, and Dan Quayle 19 other high ranking Officials signed a plan calling for the US to fake a "New Pearl Harbor" ( http://reopen911.org/docs/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf page 63) as an excuse to invade Iraq to establish military bases.
judy
user posted image
davis¹³
Who is in charge? Who is failing? Why are there still gaping holes in our security?

Republicans.
judy
QUOTE(davis¹³ @ Dec 11 2005, 09:12 AM)
Who is in charge? Who is failing? Why are there still gaping holes in our security?

Republicans.
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Read it and weep!


Clinton's Shadow Hangs Over US Attacks

By Andrew Sullivan


In the initial shock of the September 11 massacre, one small notion lodged itself into the mass psyche. It is perhaps best summed up by the phrase: "Who could have seen that coming?" Because of the sheer audacity of the attack, its novel use of kamikaze-style jets, its uniquely horrendous death toll, most of us tended to exculpate the leaders of the United States for any responsibility for the lax security and failure of intelligence and foreign policy it represented.

But nearly three weeks later, as the sheer extent of America's unpreparedness and vulnerability comes into better focus, one other conclusion is inescapable. The September 11 massacre resulted from a fantastic failure on the part of the United States government to protect its citizens from an act of war. This failure is now staring us in the face and, if the errors are to be rectified, it is essential to acknowledge what went wrong.

Two questions come to mind: how was it that the Osama Bin Laden network, known for more than a decade, was still at large and dangerous enough this autumn to inflict such a deadly blow? Who was responsible in the government for such a failure of intelligence, foreign policy and national security? These questions have not been asked directly, for good reasons.

There is a need to avoid recriminations at a time of national crisis. But at the same time, the American lack of preparedness that Tuesday is already slowing the capacity to bring Bin Laden to justice by constricting military and diplomatic options. And with a president just a few months in office, criticism need not extend to the young administration that largely inherited this tattered security apparatus.

Whatever failures of intelligence, security or diplomacy exist, they have roots far deeper than the first nine months of this year. When national disasters of unpreparedness have occurred in other countries - say, the invasion of the Falkland islands - ministers responsible have resigned. Taking responsibility for mistakes in the past is part of the effort not to repeat them. So why have heads not rolled?

The most plausible answer is that nobody has been fired because this attack was so novel and impossible to predict that nothing in America's security apparatus could have prevented it. The only problem with this argument is that it is patently untrue. Throughout the Clinton years, this kind of attack was not only predictable but predicted. Not only had Bin Laden already attacked American embassies and warships, he had done so repeatedly and been completely frank about his war. He had even attempted to destroy the World Trade Center in 1993. Same guy, same building. To say that nobody could have anticipated this type of attack is simply to say that US intelligence wasn't good enough to have found it out.

How prominent were the warnings of the danger of Islamic terrorism in the 1990s? Here's one: "The crater beneath the World Trade Center and the uncovering of a plot to set off more gigantic bombs and to assassinate leading political figures have shown Americans how brutal these extremists can be." This was written by Salman Rushdie in The New York Times in 1993.

Did the Clinton administration overhaul its intelligence and defence priorities in response to the 1993 warning? No. No effort was made to co-ordinate the mess of agencies designed to counter terrorism - the FBI, the CIA, the Pentagon, the State Department, the airlines, local law enforcement, the Coast Guard. No effort was made to recruit more spies who could speak Arabic or go undercover to pre-empt such attacks. Under the Clinton administration a law was passed making it more difficult for America to use spies who had sleazy or criminal pasts - the kind needed to infiltrate Bin Laden's cells.

The debacle of the Somalia expedition in 1992 and 1993 - which led to US special forces being humiliated - dramatically chilled the military's willingness to use such Delta Force units in action again. This occurred despite the fact that aggressive use of such forces was critical to any successful effort to regain the initiative against terrorism.

In a remarkably revealing and overlooked article in last week's New Yorker, Joe Klein argues that "there seems to be near-unanimous agreement among experts: in the 10 years since the collapse of the Soviet Union almost every aspect of American national security policy - from military operations to intelligence-gathering, from border control to political leadership - has been marked by . . . institutional lassitude and bureaucratic arrogance".

The decision to get down and dirty with the terrorists, to take their threat seriously and counter them aggressively, was simply never taken. Many bear the blame for this: Warren Christopher, the clueless, stately former secretary of state; Anthony Lake, the tortured intellectual at the National Security Council; General Colin Powell, whose decision to use Delta Force units in Somalia so badly backfired; but, above all, former president Bill Clinton, whose inattention to military and security matters now seems part of the reason why America was so vulnerable to slaughter.

Klein cites this devastating quote from a senior Clinton official: "Clinton spent less concentrated attention on national defence than any other president in recent memory. He could learn an issue very quickly, but he wasn't very interested in getting his hands dirty with detail work. His style was procrastination, seeing where everyone was, before taking action. This was truer in his first term than in the second, but even when he began to pay attention he was constrained by public opinion and his own unwillingness to take risks."

It is hard to come up with a more damning description of negligence than that.

Clinton even got a second chance. In 1998, after Bin Laden struck again at US embassies in Africa, the president was put on notice that the threat was deadly. He responded with a couple of missile strikes against Afghanistan and Sudan, some of which missed their targets and none of which seriously impacted on Osama Bin Laden.

Clinton's own former defence secretary, John Deutch, wrote in The New York Times that August: "We must insist on superior intelligence that will warn of potential terrorist actions. We must insist on tough and prompt responses, and on developing an effective capability to manage the consequences of these acts when they occur. In general, public and private experts have concluded that our country is not fully prepared to act effectively on these matters." Clinton largely ignored the warning.

In The Washington Post that August, the following prescient words were written by L Paul Bremer III, the former anti-terrorism chief in the Reagan administration: "The ideology of such groups [as Bin Laden's] makes them impervious to political or diplomatic pressures. They hate America, its values and its culture and proudly declare themselves to be at war with us. We cannot seek a 'political solution' with them."

Bremer then set out a list of what the US should do: "Defend ourselves. Beef up security around potential targets here and abroad, especially 'softer' targets such as American businesses overseas. Attack the enemy. Keep the pressure on terrorist groups. Be as systematic and relentless as they are. Crush Bin Laden's operations by pressure and disruption. The US government should order further military strikes against the remaining terrorist training camps in Afghanistan and Sudan. The government, further, should announce a large reward for Bin Laden's capture - dead or alive. This might work and at the least would exacerbate the paranoia common to all terrorists."

Sound familiar? It's exactly what is being done now, three years too late, with no element of surprise, and with far from adequate human intelligence.

This brings Bremer to the most critical point in his recommendations: "Improve our intelligence operations. Effective counterterrorism depends on good intelligence . . . We must pre-empt attacks before they happen. This requires improved co-ordination of intelligence collection. While it is difficult, we should expand the use of deep-cover agents on the ground to infiltrate organisations."

None of this happened. The CIA's feckless record went uncorrected.

Perhaps the most farsighted critic was a man called Reuel Marc Gerecht, a former case officer in the CIA's clandestine service and the author, under the pseudonym Edward Shirley, of a book called Know Thine Enemy: A Spy's Journey into Revolutionary Iran.

In The Atlantic Monthly this summer, he emphasised the need for trained spies to go underground in the Muslim world of Afghanistan and Pakistan if the West were ever to get adequate intelligence on Bin Laden's operation. Gerecht also reported the following devastating fact: "Robert Baer, one of the most talented Middle East case officers of the past 20 years (and the only operative in the 1980s to collect consistently first-rate intelligence on the Lebanese Hezbollah and the Palestinian Islamic Jihad), suggested to headquarters in the early 1990s that the CIA might want to collect intelligence on Afghanistan from the neighbouring central Asian republics of the former Soviet Union.

"Headquarters' reply: too dangerous, and why bother? The cold war there was over with the Soviet withdrawal in 1989. Afghanistan was too far away, internecine warfare was seen as endemic, and radical Islam was an abstract idea.

"Afghanistan has since become the training ground for Islamic terrorism against the United States, yet the CIA's clandestine service still usually keeps officers on the Afghan account no more than two or three years."

If you want to know why it seems unlikely that America knows enough about Bin Laden's whereabouts to mount an immediate attack today, then re-read those sentences. This is an intelligence failure of colossal proportions.

What happened to the man who presided over that massive failure? George Tenet, director of the CIA since 1997, is still in his job.

Not everyone in Washington was asleep at the switch. In response to the African embassy bombings, a national commission on terrorism was set up to propose changes. It was headed by a top-notch group of former officials and got plenty of attention. The panel argued that America was extremely vulnerable to a huge attack by a group such as Al-Qaeda, and recommended better espionage, more Arabic-speaking spies, better intelligence-sharing between the FBI and the CIA, wider wiretapping, and much of what is now on the table. The report was even prescient enough to have a picture of the World Trade Center on its cover.

But the report died the death of a thousand quibbles. Civil liberties advocates complained about a threat to individual freedom. James Zogby, the president of the Arab-American Institute, said the proposals were like "the darkest days of the McCarthy era".

A writer in the online magazine Salon described the warnings of a domestic attack as "a con job with roughly the veracity of the latest Robert Ludlum novel". The CIA opposed lowering its squeaky-clean standards for spies, and the FBI was desperate, under Clinton, to avoid any Reagan-like dirty tricks in its operation.

When the report came to Congress, it was attacked by Senator Patrick Leahy of Vermont, who distrusted the CIA and wanted to avoid what he called "risks to civil liberties we hold dear".

The proposal picked up momentum after the attack in Aden on the USS Cole last October, but was so watered down by the end of the legislative process that it was virtually useless. The Clinton administration did next to nothing to rescue it.

Clinton's former national security adviser, Sandy Berger, defended the president's record to Klein in The New Yorker. He argued that, after the embassy bombings, there was a concerted effort to find and kill Bin Laden, and that the cruise missile in Afghanistan missed its target by an hour, after which Bin Laden disappeared from view. Anonymous Clinton officials also blame the former treasury secretary Robert Rubin for resisting measures to cut off Bin Laden's financing, and to use cyber warfare to crack down on terror money networks.

Others blame the FBI: "[The FBI's] standard line was that Bin Laden wasn't a serious domestic security threat," one source told Klein. "They said that he had about 200 guys on the ground and they had drawn a bead on them." But whatever the nuances of blame here, it is clear that nobody from the top intervened, imposed order and reorganisation.

Earlier this year, yet another report, chaired by the respected former senators Gary Hart and Warren Rudman, came to yet another definitive conclusion that America was vulnerable. They made exactly the same recommendations that are now finally being implemented; the report was well advertised and disseminated in the press - and still nothing was done.

Hindsight is easy, of course. In the halcyon and feckless climate of the 1990s, it would have required real political leadership to dragoon various stubborn government agencies into a difficult reorganisation to counter terrorism. It would have been extremely hard to persuade a sceptical public and a prickly civil liberties lobby that vast new powers were necessary to prevent catastrophe. This much is true.

But it's also true that there were several unmistakable attacks on America by the very forces that have now launched a war. It is also true that many, many people recognised this and were brave enough to warn about it.

In August 1998, Milton Bearden, the former CIA chief in Pakistan and Sudan, wrote in The New York Times: "The case against Osama Bin Laden is clear-cut. Through his self-proclaimed sponsorship of terrorism against the United States, he has, in effect, declared war on us."

In July 1999, William Cohen, Clinton's defence secretary, wrote in The Washington Post: "In the past year, dozens of threats to use chemical or biological weapons in the United States have turned out to be hoaxes. Someday, one will be real".

Whatever excuses members of Clinton's administration may have, they cannot trot out the excuse of not having been warned. We were all warned. We just preferred to look the other way.

It is clear that there are many in the American government who, while not being "guilty men" in sympathising with, and appeasing, the enemy were, at the very least, "negligent men". They deserve some sympathy. They were imperfect human beings in a world where September 11 was still an abstract. But we pay our politicians to assess the possibility of an actual threat. That's what they are there for. And, on that critical task, they failed.

If the security manager of a nuclear power plant presides over a massive external attack on it, then it's only right that he should be held responsible, in part, for what happened. More than 6,000 families are now living with the deadly consequences of the negligence of the government of the United States. There is no greater duty for such a government than the maintenance of national security, and the protection of its own citizens.

When a senior Clinton official can say of his own leader that he "spent less concentrated attention on national defence than any other president in recent memory", and when this administration is followed by the most grievous breach of domestic security in American history, it is not unreasonable to demand some accounting.

Clinton is not alone. The list of people who resisted or thwarted the measures needed to have avoided this catastrophe are many. They reach back to president George Bush Sr, who balked at removing Saddam Hussein from power at the end of the Gulf war, thus leaving the single most dangerous abetter of international terrorism at large on the world stage.

They include Bush and Clinton officials who failed to see the danger in the vacuum left in Afghanistan after the successful insurgency against the Soviets. They include senators, congressmen, lobbyists, civil liberties advocates and journalists - all of whom failed to see the danger. Few of us are free from blame, but the most blame must surely be attributed to the top.

We thought for a long time that the Clinton years would be seen, in retrospect, as a mixed blessing. He was sleazy and unprincipled, we surmised, but he was also competent, he led an economic recovery, and he conducted a foreign policy of multilateral distinction.

But the further we get away from the Clinton years, the more damning they seem. The narcissistic, feckless, escapist culture of an America absent without leave in the world was fomented from the top. The boom at the end of the decade turned out to include a dangerous bubble that the administration did little to prevent.

The "peace-making" in the Middle East and Ireland merely intensified the conflicts. The sex and money scandals were not just debilitating in themselves - they meant that even the minimal attention that the Clinton presidency paid to strategic military and intelligence work was skimped on.

We were warned. But we were coasting. And the main person primarily entrusted with correcting that delusion, with ensuring America's national security - the president - was part of the problem.

Through the dust clouds of September 11, and during the difficult task ahead, one person hovers over the wreckage - and that is Bill Clinton. His legacy gets darker with each passing day.

user posted image
Slick Willy--his tie points to his brains!
davis¹³
spam. Why aren't they any closer to securing the ports? Because it would affect the business interests who are big Republican campaign donors. Bottom line is Republicans have dropped the ball.
Bart Katz
Just fuckoff.
Arturo_Vandelay
I'm sure davis is looking forward to the day we're all hermetically sealed in. Should only take a few million border guards, police and security guards.
SRX
THe best defense is a good offense.

Too bad my Rams have neither. sad.gif
Bee
QUOTE(Arturo_Vandelay @ Dec 11 2005, 07:47 PM)
I'm sure davis is looking forward to the day we're all hermetically sealed in. Should only take a few million border guards, police and security guards.
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He's only talking about securing the ports. Doesn't seem like such a fargin' big deal.

If it were a Dem in charge you'd all be grousing about it, I'm sure.
Arturo_Vandelay
QUOTE(SpeedRacerXxtreme @ Dec 11 2005, 07:27 PM)
THe best defense is a good offense.

Too bad my Rams have neither. sad.gif
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Try being a Raider fan about now. I don't mind the other team, as much I hate the refs.
Arturo_Vandelay
QUOTE(Bee @ Dec 11 2005, 07:39 PM)
He's only talking about securing the ports. Doesn't seem like such a fargin' big deal.

If it were a Dem in charge you'd all be grousing about it, I'm sure.
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How the heck do you "secure" a port? And if you "secure" it what keeps terrorists from going elsewhere?

I was pretty focused on what I bitched about when Dems were in charge. It wasn't like the current "any excuse is a good one".
SRX
QUOTE(Arturo_Vandelay @ Dec 11 2005, 07:40 PM)
Try being a Raider fan about now.  I don't mind the other team, as much I hate the refs.
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Blaming the refs is the last refuge of the scoundrel. dry.gif

laugh.gif
davis¹³
QUOTE(Arturo_Vandelay @ Dec 11 2005, 06:47 PM)
I'm sure davis is looking forward to the day we're all hermetically sealed in. Should only take a few million border guards, police and security guards.
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What the forq are you talking about you ignorant fork? The Patriot act nuking the constitution is okee dokee to you but ask for port security and you consider it over reaction?

GFY.
davis¹³
QUOTE(Bart Katz @ Dec 11 2005, 06:28 PM)
Just fuckoff.
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Blessed are the assshole rednecks, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
judy
user posted image
davis¹³
Who is running the show? Republicans.
Mizilus
QUOTE(davis¹³ @ Dec 12 2005, 12:40 PM)
Who is running the show? Republicans.
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but its Murtha, Pelosi, and the clintons fault.
davis¹³
QUOTE(Mizilus @ Dec 12 2005, 02:47 PM)
but its Murtha, Pelosi, and the clintons fault.
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fuckity fark fark fark
Mizilus
forkity farg fricken frack.
Russ Logan
QUOTE(Mizilus @ Dec 12 2005, 01:51 PM)
forkity farg fricken frack.
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You don't like Frick and Frack?

"Frick and Frack were famous duo of Swiss comedy ice skaters, whose stage names these were. They came to public fame in the later years of a series of skating spectaculars called Ice Follies, promoted by Eddie Shipstad and his brother Roy, which began in 1936 and ran for almost 50 years." cool.gif
judy
QUOTE(Russ Logan @ Dec 12 2005, 04:57 PM)
You don't like Frick and Frack?

"Frick and Frack were famous duo of Swiss comedy ice skaters, whose stage names these were. They came to public fame in the later years of a series of skating spectaculars called Ice Follies, promoted by Eddie Shipstad and his brother Roy, which began in 1936 and ran for almost 50 years." cool.gif
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I liked them!
user posted image
Mizilus
QUOTE(Russ Logan @ Dec 12 2005, 12:57 PM)
You don't like Frick and Frack?

"Frick and Frack were famous duo of Swiss comedy ice skaters, whose stage names these were. They came to public fame in the later years of a series of skating spectaculars called Ice Follies, promoted by Eddie Shipstad and his brother Roy, which began in 1936 and ran for almost 50 years." cool.gif
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Dont like? Well I dunno since that was a bit before my time and I have to rely on my folks for any knowledge of them whatsoever.
judy
QUOTE(Mizilus @ Dec 13 2005, 02:55 PM)
Dont like? Well I dunno since that was a bit before my time and I have to rely on my folks for any knowledge of them whatsoever.
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That makes you around 19 years old.
Mizilus
QUOTE(judy @ Dec 16 2005, 12:31 PM)
That makes you around 19 years old.
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double that and you would be closer.
judy
QUOTE(Mizilus @ Dec 16 2005, 05:07 PM)
double that and you would be closer.
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And you never heard of Flick and Frack?
inyerface
ever heard of the 911 air traffic controllers?

ever heard their story?
inyerface
Question: How was a plane which was known to be hostile able to have an unimpeded 48 minute joyride around US airspace before slamming into the heart of the US military?

Answer: Stand down.

The 9/11 USAF Stand Down
The US military has spent billions of dollars developing stealth aircraft which are invisible to radar so they can mount surprise attacks on adversaries, but it seems they should have saved their money and bought a fleet of airliners because they appear to be far more effective.

On 9/11 the world's only military superpower was apparently oblivious to the location of rogue airliners in it's airspace for over an hour, and military commanders were left perplexed on how to deal with the situation of hijackers using these planes as flying bombs. This confusion resulted in fighter jets flying around aimlessly whilst the hierarchy fully assessed what was going on, and this total lack of cohesion ultimately led to the loss of nearly 3000 lives.

All that was required to overcome America's military might on 9/11 were 19 hijackers on 4 airliners.

Does this sound plausible to you?

It's what you're expected to believe.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/911stand.html

War Games: The Key to a
9/11 USAF Stand Down

On 9/11 there was no reaction from the USAF as hijacked aircraft flew through US airspace and plowed into buildings. This lack of response is inconceivable unless the USAF was stood down.

Careful planning made this easy to achieve:

Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Instruction CJCSI 3610.01A (dated 1 June 2001) changed the protocol so that any requests for "potentially lethal support" had to come explicitly from the secretary of defense, leaving commanders in the field unable to respond to hijackings in any meaningful fashion.

Five military exercises were held on 9/11, and this resulted in flight controllers, commanders and pilots being unable to distinguish real world events from exercise scenarios.


9/11 Flight Controller:
"Is this real world or exercise?"

WMV video download (95kB)

Even if a hostile plane was identified it couldn't be fired upon because secretary of defense Donald Rumsfeld was "out of the loop" during the attacks (as was the acting head of the Joint Chiefs of Staff).

Chaos reigned supreme on 9/11 thanks to the above [video], and this effectively stood down the USAF when it was needed most.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/usaf_911.html
inyerface
"Sixty seven times in the year before 9/11/01 planes were off course and fighter jets responded, so where were the fighter jets on 9/11? It's more than incompetent, it's criminal"
CharlieRay
Was reading up a bit on military spending this am... and 911 came up over and over... and I decided this thread needs a bump... and what I feel is a jUStified rant...

Do jUSt a little bit of research for yourselfs... open your eyes... browse/search simple terms such as military spending 911...

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navc...ry+spending+911

Try simple irrelevant terms that by any reasonable thinking shouldn't bring up soooo many so-called "conspiracy" sites... like 911... Bush... Cheney... Usama... Antrax attack... World Trade Center... Pentagon... 911 commission... able danger... enron... abramoff... terrorist... etc... etc...

Then go from there and check out stuff like Marvin Bush... Building 7... Pentagon... CIA... FEMA... Terrorist Drills... Atta... truth... lies... to get relevance jUSt include 911 in each search...

Use any internet search engine("rightie" or "leftie":~)...

WAKE UP!!!

Your own government(both parties:~) did 911 to you... they killed over 3000 of you(US:~)... jUSt so that they could jUStify spending more of your money on themselves and their own means/methods of lying, controlling and stealing from you... your money and your kids lives USed to make yet more and more horrible WMD... to invade other nations and imprison, torture and kill 10s and 100s of 1000s of "other" people in their own soveriegn nations... for their land and resources... enticing you and yours to do all manner of things to others that which you and yours would never ever allow others do to yourselves...

You've listened to their lies... their "Psyops"... you've been played for a fool...

With todays internet and open information available to all of US, there is NO EXCUSE(that you are reading this means that the rest is available to you also:~)... if you don't see it for what it is, even vaguely... then it is because you mUSt have deliberately chosen to do so... to be a fool... allowing them lie to you... letting them steal from you... letting them kill you and yours... USing you and yours to imprison, torture and kill "others"... for their purpose... and not your own...

This isn't a Dem/Rep party thing... this is not a Consevative/Liberal thing... this is a Truths/Lies thing... this is a fundamental issue that should at the least interest any who claim the title "US Patriot" or "Christian"... this is about being enlightened or being a fool... it's about what we as a nation are really about... who we are... where we are and where we are going... it's about having open eyes... being aware... being enlightened... or being blind... and/or a fool...

I'd like ya'll to jUSt consider for one instant if we were to cut back our so-called "Defense Spending" to a level even comparable to any other nation on this planet right now... what good could we do for our own people... what good could we do for all people of all nations... whose nations might cut back their own so-called "Defense Spending"... as it is we are fueling a world wide national military build up comparable to that of the world wars... and the beginnings of a police state that with the growing technology will far outdo anything that came before it...

Even if you feel that your present livelyhood is dependent on this so-called "Defense Spending" or police state/prison system... can you not imagine yourself sustaining yourself on something even jUSt a little bit more constructive to a better world for all of US and our children?...

They have killed you... so that they could steal from you... and misUSe you... and your children... to lower and debase you... they don't send their own... or spend their own... they send and spend yours... they know that it's about being informed or being a fool... and they see you as jUSt that... a fool... to be USed and misUSed as they see fit... and if you believe them and/or defend them in any capacity... then you are indeed exactly that... jUSt a fool... a whole nation of fools.
SRX
No prisons? That is getting a little too libertarian, even for me.
CharlieRay
QUOTE(SRX @ Jan 29 2006, 10:41 AM) [snapback]180257[/snapback]

No prisons? That is getting a little too libertarian, even for me.


I didn't say that... but having more of our populace in prisons than any civilization before US is jUSt a little bit much IMO... how about you?
SRX
It seemed a little insulting toward people who work in prisons. I'm sure you didn't mean it that way.


My friend's wife works in a prison and it's dangerous and not too well paid.
Bee
QUOTE(SRX @ Jan 29 2006, 01:15 PM) [snapback]180266[/snapback]

It seemed a little insulting toward people who work in prisons. I'm sure you didn't mean it that way.
My friend's wife works in a prison and it's dangerous and not too well paid.


Perhaps if the job was more exclusive it would pay more.

Supply and demand in reverse.
SRX
I don't think it's bad money, but like police or fire it's dangerous for the pay. Cons want to kill or maim you.

If it were miners and in the news it might help.
Bee
QUOTE(SRX @ Jan 29 2006, 01:23 PM) [snapback]180272[/snapback]

I don't think it's bad money, but like police or fire it's dangerous for the pay. Cons want to kill or maim you.

If it were miners and in the news it might help.


I think they should let the potheads go.

It's pretty silly, they're merely creating criminals, kinda like we're creating terrorists in Iraq.
Grigorii
QUOTE
BYU professor's group accuses U.S. officials of lying about 9/11

By Elaine Jarvik
Deseret Morning News

Last fall, Brigham Young University physics professor Steven E. Jones made headlines when he charged that the World Trade Center collapsed because of "pre-positioned explosives." Now, along with a group that calls itself "Scholars for 9/11 Truth," he's upping the ante.

"We believe that senior government officials have covered up crucial facts about what really happened on 9/11," the group says in a statement released Friday announcing its formation. "We believe these events may have been orchestrated by the administration in order to manipulate the American people into supporting policies at home and abroad."

Headed by Jones and Jim Fetzer, University of Minnesota Duluth distinguished McKnight professor of philosophy, the group is made up of 50 academicians and others.
They include Robert M. Bowman, former director of the U.S. "Star Wars" space defense program, and Morgan Reynolds, former chief economist for the Department of Labor in President George W. Bush's first term. Most of the members are less well-known.

The group's Web site (www.ST911.org) includes an updated version of Jones's paper about the collapse of the Twin Towers and a paper by Fetzer that looks at conspiracy theories. The government's version of the events of 9/11 — that the plane's hijackers were tied to Osama bin Laden — is its own conspiracy theory, says Fetzer, who has studied the John F. Kennedy assassination since 1992.

"Did the Bush administration know in advance about the impending attacks that occurred on 9/11, and allow these to happen, to provoke pre-planned wars against Afghanistan and Iraq? These questions demand immediate answers," charges a paper written collectively by Scholars for 9/11 Truth. The group plans to write more papers, and present lectures and conferences.

"We have very limited resources and no subpoena powers," Fetzer said. "What you have is a bunch of serious scholars taking a look at this and discovering it didn't add up. We don't have a political ax to grind."

Fetzer has doctorates in the history and philosophy of science. "One of the roles I can play here," he said, "is to explain why a certain line of argument is correct or not."

In his original message to potential members last month, Fetzer warned that joining the group might make them the subject of government surveillance and might get them on various lists of "potential terrorists."
The group's charges include:

• Members of the Bush administration knew in advance that the 9/11 attacks would happen but did nothing to stop them.

• No Air Force or Air National Guard jets were sent to "scramble" the hijacked planes, which were clearly deviating from their flight plans, although jet fighters had been deployed for scramblings 67 times in the year prior to 9/11. The procedure for issuing orders for scrambling was changed in June 2001, requiring that approval could only come from the Secretary of Defense, but Donald Rumsfeld was not alerted soon enough on 9/11, according to Scholars group.

• The video of Osama bin Laden found by American troops in Afghanistan in December 2001, in which bin Laden says he orchestrated the attacks, is not bin Laden. The Scholars for 9/11 Truth compared the video with a photo of the "real" bin Laden and argue that there are discrepancies in the ratio of nose-length to nose-width, as well as distance from tip-of-nose to ear lobe.

The Scholars group hopes that media outlets around the world will ask experts in their areas to examine the group's findings and assertions. If this were done, they argue, "one of the great hoaxes of history would stand naked before the eyes of the world."

The group also asks for an investigation of the collapse of the World Trade Center buildings, following up on points made in Jones's paper, "Why Indeed Did the WTC Buildings Collapse?" That paper, recently updated, has been posted on Jones's BYU Web site since last November.

Jones argues that the WTC buildings did not collapse due to impact or fires caused by the jets hitting the towers but collapsed as a result of pre-positioned "cutter charges." Proof, he says, includes:

• Molten metal was found in the subbasements of WTC sites weeks after 9/11; the melting point of structural steel is 2,750 degrees Fahrenheit and the temperature of jet fuel does not exceed 1,800 degrees. Molten metal was also found in the building known as WTC7, although no plane had struck it. Jones's paper also includes a photo of a slag of the metal being extracted from ground zero. The slag, Jones argues, could not be aluminum from the planes because in photographs the metal was salmon-to-yellow-hot temperature (approximately 1,550 to 1,900 degrees F) "well above the melting temperatures of lead and aluminum," which would be a liquid at that temperature.

• Building WTC7 collapsed in 6.6 seconds, which means, Jones says, that the steel and concrete support had to be simply knocked out of the way. "Explosive demolitions are like that," he said. "It doesn't fit the model of the fire-induced pancake collapse."

• No steel-frame, high-rise buildings have ever before or since been brought down due to fires. Temperatures due to fire don't get hot enough for buildings to collapse, he says.

• Jones points to a recent article in the journal New Civil Engineering that says WTC disaster investigators at NIST (the National Institutes of Standards and Technology) "are refusing to show computer visualizations of the collapse of the Twin Towers despite calls from leading structural and fire engineers."

Neither Jones nor other members of the Scholars group suggests who would have planted the explosives, but they argue that the devices could have been operated by remote control.

Jones says he has received thousands of e-mails from people around the world who either support his ideas or think he's "nutty," and he still gets about 30 e-mails a day on the topic.

He continues to do research on cold fusion, which he prefers to call metal-catalyzed fusion "to distinguish it from the claims" of former University of Utah chemistry professors B. Stanley Pons and Martin Fleishmann, "which we do not accept as verified." He reports that his metal-catalyzed fusion work is going well, with three scientific papers published last year.

Jones will present a talk entitled "9/11 Revisited: Scientific and Ethical Questions" at Utah Valley State College at 7 p.m. on Wednesday, Feb. 1.

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,635179751,00.html


How odd some 50 university academicians have decided to wear tinfoil hats...

Speaking of conspiracy buffs what's happened to inyerface?
CharlieRay
QUOTE(Grigorii @ Jan 30 2006, 04:21 AM) [snapback]180459[/snapback]

How odd some 50 university academicians have decided to wear tinfoil hats...

Speaking of conspiracy buffs what's happened to inyerface?


I'll drop him an email...

Here's a good review of their art...

http://normalflora.org/music/CDreviewBBB705.jpg
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