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Tom Servo
Posted at Reason online last week:

QUOTE
We're From the Government and We're Here to Help
The folly of fiscal stimulus packages

In the best of times, most members of Congress are to fiscal irresponsibility what alcoholics are to the bottle—unable to resist even though they know they should. So imagine how our leaders will behave once they are told that budgetary indiscipline is no longer a vice but a virtue.

That's the counsel now from some economists and all three major Democratic presidential candidates. With a possible recession looming, they insist the federal government needs to provide a stimulus to the economy by spending or rebating money it doesn't have. That will put more cash in the pockets of consumers, who will then spend it, boosting the fortunes of companies and their employees and staving off a downturn. Or so the thinking goes.

<snip>

But skepticism is in order. Any money that the government lays out, after all, will not drop miraculously from the sky. Since the federal budget is already running a deficit, those funds will have to be obtained the old-fashioned way—by borrowing. More money would be spent by those who get the help, but less would be spent by those who provide it. So the whole transaction may add up to not much more than zero.




arebuntz
Servo, you don't think they are going to make a significant cut in Federal spending to pay for the vote buying?
Arturo_Vandelay
Some tax cuts are better than no tax cuts to a lot of people.
Tom Servo
QUOTE (arebuntz @ Jan 21 2008, 07:01 PM) *
Servo, you don't think they are going to make a significant cut in Federal spending to pay for the vote buying?


Why do that when you can just print up the checks!! laugh.gif
arebuntz
QUOTE (Arturo_Vandelay @ Jan 21 2008, 08:10 PM) *
Some tax cuts are better than no tax cuts to a lot of people.

Even when the gubment takes $1000 last year, sends you a check for $800 this year, charges you $50 a year for years to come and maybe some day collects the $1000 again.
Arturo_Vandelay
QUOTE (Tom Servo @ Jan 21 2008, 06:15 PM) *
Why do that when you can just print up the checks!! laugh.gif


One side may demand that to get some tax cuts for the other. Damned democracy. dry.gif smile.gif
arebuntz
Death of the Republic
Nomarchy
Why not increase government spending on e.g. infrastructure upkeep and building or something to the tune of the total amount of the 'rebates'?

Or, how about a FICA holiday or something? More money in our pockets, directly. According to our . . . paychecks.
arebuntz
QUOTE (Nomarchy @ Jan 21 2008, 08:32 PM) *
Why not increase government spending on e.g. infrastructure upkeep and building or something to the tune of the total amount of the 'rebates'?

Or, how about a FICA holiday or something? More money in our pockets, directly. According to our . . . paychecks.

Did you miss my suggestion? Gubment buys about $200bil worth of American made staples and put them in a warehouse somewhere. Then when the crisis has passed sell them on ebay to get some of the money back...

Always interesting to hear about FICA holiday... is it a tax or a premium?.. does the earnings upon which FICA not collected still count against as Social Security and Medicare earnings?
Arturo_Vandelay
QUOTE (Nomarchy @ Jan 21 2008, 06:32 PM) *
Why not increase government spending on e.g. infrastructure upkeep and building or something to the tune of the total amount of the 'rebates'?


Just letting government spend more takes time and is open to more of the same waste we have and only helps a few.

QUOTE
Or, how about a FICA holiday or something? More money in our pockets, directly. According to our . . . paychecks.


Just send a small check to anyone with an SS number. They send yearly letters already. Simple and straight to the people.
arebuntz
Now we're talkin'... Social Security pre payment...

No cash though... Amazon Gift Cards...
SRX
QUOTE (arebuntz @ Jan 21 2008, 08:37 PM) *
Now we're talkin'... Social Security pre payment...

No cash though... Amazon Gift Cards...


How about poker chips? Trusting government is a gamble already. If they aren't going to cut taxes or spending they ought to at least give us a small chance to win our money back.
Nomarchy
QUOTE (SRX @ Jan 21 2008, 09:34 PM) *
How about poker chips? Trusting government is a gamble already. If they aren't going to cut taxes or spending they ought to at least give us a small chance to win our money back.


how would cutting spending have any positive short-term effect on the rate of growth of GDP?
SRX
How would adding to short term debt add to longterm growth?
arebuntz
QUOTE (SRX @ Jan 22 2008, 12:57 AM) *
How would adding to short term debt add to longterm growth?

Short term debt?... looks very long term to me... permanent debt in practice... good for investors looking for "safety" to hold treasury instruments although looks like interest rates are heading to zero again...
SpaceCowboy
Arturo_Vandelay
I can't tell if Toles is against it or not. Is the idea to not be openly against it but still criticize Bush? He does realize Congress writes law and controls the purse strings, doesn't he?
SpaceCowboy
QUOTE (Arturo_Vandelay @ Jan 22 2008, 09:39 AM) *
I can't tell if Toles is against it or not. Is the idea to not be openly against it but still criticize Bush? He does realize Congress writes law and controls the purse strings, doesn't he?

Toles is generally anti-Bush in all cases. In this case, he thought the term splurge was funny under the circumstances so he thought up a cartoon to use it.

He makes his living trying to be funny.

Arturo_Vandelay
QUOTE (SpaceCowboy @ Jan 22 2008, 08:51 AM) *
Toles is generally anti-Bush in all cases.



A good lawyer never asks a question he doesn't know the answer to. wink.gif

QUOTE
In this case, he thought the term splurge was funny under the circumstances so he thought up a cartoon to use it. He makes his living trying to be funny.


Oh, I thought it was plenty cleaver, but then I thought it was political as well. So I pointed out the part I thought needed mentioning.

Stupid freeze busted that copper pipe in a new spot. I'm ready to cap it and worry about it later. Can't worry about until after work anyway.
SpaceCowboy
QUOTE (Arturo_Vandelay @ Jan 22 2008, 10:08 AM) *
A good lawyer never asks a question he doesn't know the answer to. wink.gif



Oh, I thought it was plenty cleaver, but then I thought it was political as well. So I pointed out the part I thought needed mentioning.

Stupid freeze busted that copper pipe in a new spot. I'm ready to cap it and worry about it later. Can't worry about until after work anyway.

Sorry about that. I'm with you on capping if off at this point. Plenty of time in the spring to implement a better solution.
Bart Katz
Mighty putty will fix it.
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