The question is, has he learned anything?

He's learned how to run for office and win. Nothing else matters.

Well, sure he's a politician.

Ross Perot isn't running this year either.

I figure it's a pretty simple election.

If you want out of Iraq and into national healthcare, vote Obama.


If you want to stay in Iraq and want out of national healthcare, vote McCain.

What if I want a little of both?

That's probably what you'll get either way.

That's what I expect, and why I'm not so tied to anyone yet.

Of course not. But it do scare the sheit out of ignorant rednecks.

It's all lies. We the people are sick of it and them. I'll be glad whent he last of these amoral, situational ethics, situational Christianity ass holes gets exposed for what they really are.

Barry is the king of situational Christianity. After watching the crowd cheer on Wright and Pfleger I can see why he quit the church, but not why he was a member for years.

It's a little more complex than that.

If you want to surrender to the War on Terrorism
If you want socialized medicine
If you want economic parity
If you want higher taxes
If you want judicial activists legislating from the bench
If you want Marxism
If you want the George Soros candidate
If you want the most liberal member of Congress in the highest office in the land

Then vote for Obama

If you want to hear Barry define his form of Christianity go here http://www.onenewsnow.com/Election2008/Default.aspx?id=73553


Barry didn't disown his church because "they are not worthy of that" Besides, he joined it for a voting base and stayed for political reasons. He left for political reasons but didn't object to the anti-American sentiment, racist and afro centric theology, blasphemy and profanity from the pulpit. He wasn't offended by the reaction of the congregation because he was a part of it for 20 years

But I doubt that his supporters are bothered by this either.

Do you go to church Goldie?

Since when you got to be a church goer to be an expert on C-Span Sucks?

-- Innocent, Davis, et al

since when can he not ask

Everything is political. Even religion. Moreso when a guy like Obama can get so much power after so little effort and sacrifice.

No, plain nuts.

Hell, yes. Cheney's even a cousin.

Yes, yes it does.




http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/shared-bl..._say_no_mo.html

As I recall, McCain has yet to instruct the RNC to do likewise.

It may get more complex, but yes, them's the basics.

Because he found Jesus his Savior there?

You don't have a clue about his effort nor his sacrifice.

All the (married or formerly married) men here who have selected their family church please stand up and say aye, aye, Ma'm.

How about the ones that selected their wife (s)?

WHEN WILL OBAMA THROW JIMMY CARTER UNDER THE BUS?



A string of Barack Obama's supporters, advisers or long time associates have been cut loose by Obama or his presidential campaign because they were embarassments in one way or another to his candidacy.

Think Samantha (Hillary's a monster) Power,
Alan (psst, he's not really serious about NAFTA) Goolsbee,
Jeremiah (crazy old uncle) Wright, and
folks from the Illinois Combine like Tony Rezko and
Nadhmi Auchi for whom it was "Tony I hardly knew ye."
(HIS GRANDMA)

Now comes a true friend of Obama, America's best former President, Jimmy Carter, who in fact has called for Hillary Clinton to hang it up because the party's over so far as the presidential nomination is concerned. The problem is, he bookended these remarks with a speech http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article19985.htm in the Welsh town of Hay in which he said some things that promise to be acutely embarassing to Obama, whose electoral prospects depend on his ability to balance his talk about negotiation with America's Designated Enemies and a drawdown of the occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan with a belligerent stance in which foreign policy must be "anything Israel," including tough stances toward Hamas, Iran and Iraq.

Question of the hour: what does Barack Obama do with this other "crazy old uncle?"

Given the delicate balance Obama is trying to maintain, what does his "friend" Jimmy Carter do? Perhaps like another "crazy uncle," he goes off on his own and does a personal peacemaking mission to the Middle East, talks to Hamas leaders and gets condemned for so doing (though Israel itself is doing the same thing through back channels) by both President Bush and candidate Obama. Then he goes to Hay and in one speech he manages to say four things that create a whole hornet's nest of problems for Obama.

1. He says the three entities (UN, EU, Russia) who, with the United States, constitute a Quartet of powers self-appointed as the world's rulers should abandon their "supine" tendency to follow the U.S. lead in supporting Israel's position on the death-dealing sanctions against Gaza.

2. He says that Israel has 150 fully-armed nuclear weapons, a bold statement of what has been "generally known," that the U.S. and Israel are in blatant violation of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty with Israeli weapons furnished courtesy the U.S.: enough munitions for Israel itself to "obliterate" Iran or any other enemy without world assistance; this at a time when Israel is pressuing the U.S. to take action against Iran for the mere threat of developing such weapons.

3. He says that the Fatah political faction in Palestine, to which Israel, the U.S. and the rest of the Quartet have hitched their diplomatic stars, should share power with the duly-elected (in what the Carter Center certified as a clean election) Hamas as the country's government; rather than joining these other forces in excluding Hamas from the peace process.

4. He says that the U.S. should withdraw immediately and fully its occupation force in Iraq, never mind the "we'll do it when the Iraqis stand up for their own security" stance that will keep U.S. forces there indefinitely, whether the next President happens to have a D or an R after his/her name.

Question of the hour: what does Barack Obama do with this other "crazy old uncle?" Use him as a sounding board toward a general liberalization of American imperialism, as he might have used Jeremiah Wright's "liberation theology" pronouncements as a harbinger of an administration in which the grievances of blacks in the society would actively (not just rhetorically) be addressed? To ask this question and refer to the Wright parallel is virtually to answer it. The answer: fat chance! To borrow from George W. Bush's (false) characterization of himself as a "uniter not a divider:" to take any stance that would satisfy the superb writers of the Black Agenda Report, he would "alienate" all those non-black Americans who want so fervently to believe that we have moved "beyond race," that blacks have already moved 90% of the way down the path of racial equality. To take Jimmy Carter's stance would alienate not only the Jewish money on which Democratic campaigns so heavily depend, but all those good folks of all religions and ethnicities who have recently been through another Memorial Day orgy of "celebration" of the sacrifices of our military men and women and our legendary dedication to complete a mission (win a victory) in order to ensure that "these dead shall not have died in vain." To do any less would cede the toughness ground to the Republicans and their war hero nominee, and election defeat would be the sure result.

No, Obama cannot agree to any of Jimmy Carter's four totally reasonable positions on U.S. foreign policy, and the ex-President must go under the bus with the rest of the crowd. How and when this will happen will await the vicissitudes of a campaign. It probably will follow Carter's endorsement, when he will join the crowd of other Obama supporters with a pious hope that the candidate of hope and change will change his positions as he (hopefully) assumes the presidency. But it will happen because

So move over, Samantha, Alan, Jeremiah, Tony, Nadhmi...gotta make room under that bus for James Earl Carter.


http://www.countercurrents.org/rose030608.htm

But with his baritone voice and charisma, he says it better than anyone else!

BUSH #1

Do you have a link for that statement or do you just like to be outrageous?

A lot of people drown. But there really isn't a point in the comparison. Not much chance of thousands of people dying in one swimming pool. A dirty bomb could do it though. Inyerface is the eternal half sentence kibitzer.

NOTED!

The problem with everyone being welcome, is everyone is welcome....

http://www.google.com/search?q=accident+ca...amp;rlz=1I7ADBR

Newsvine - Peanuts Kill More Americans Than Terrorists

A child is 100 times more likely to die in a swimming accident than in gunplay

deer: more deadly than international terrorism.

Let's not get into the stupid apples and oranges comparisons. It wasn't right when Republicans were saying there are more traffic deaths in the US than casualties in Iraq and it's not right to have you do it too with peanut allergies.

Probably safer to be a soldier in Iraq then have to deal with any of these.

AS IF YOU DO?

so its reality vs fantasy

you have a better chance of being struck by lightning

DOW PLUNGES OVER 300
http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=%5EDJI

no fact v fancy there

Looks like stock prices just became more affordable today for everyday folks. Or do libs only care about the greed and having it go up?

Profit taking on Friday.

Schumer: Clinton would accept veep offer

Barack Obama met privately with Hillary Rodham Clinton, a likely vice presidential candidate, as the Democratic nominee-in-waiting sought to unite his fractured party against Republican John McCain in November.

One of her top supporters, fellow New York senator Charles Schumer, said Friday that Clinton would accept the No. 2 spot.

``She has said if Senator Obama should want her to be vice president and thinks it would be best for the ticket, she will serve, she will accept that. But on the other hand if he chooses someone else she will work just as hard for the party in November,'' Schumer, Clinton's New York colleague in the Senate, told ABC's ``Good Morning America.''

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/feedarticle/7567577

Crocodile Tears

The rebellious son of a Baptist minister, Rev. Jeremiah Wright was hired by Trinity United Church of Christ in 1972 when he could find no Baptist church to take him. The congregation on 95th Street had recently adopted the motto "Unashamedly black and unapologetically Christian" and did not mind his fiery red Afro and black power agenda.

Wright now leads the nation's largest UCC congregation. Members include hip-hop artist Common and Democratic presidential candidate U.S. Sen. Barack Obama. Obama based his keynote speech to the 2004 Democratic National Convention on a Wright sermon called "Audacity to Hope." The sermon also inspired the title of Obama's second memoir.

Wright continues to make waves with his own audacity, questioning the common sense of Scripture, objecting to mandatory prayer in schools and clashing with clergy who preach prosperity theology.

Wright again bucked convention by announcing plans to retire in May 2008 and tapping Rev. Otis Moss III as his successor. Many black pastors do not surrender their pulpits even when they become too feeble to serve.


The Unretirement of Reverend Wright

When Sen. Barack Obama severed ties with his Chicago church, most political observers saw the move as a way for the candidate to insulate himself from the controversies stirred by its retiring pastor, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright Jr. But Trinity United Church of Christ does not have that kind of insulation. According to sources within Trinity, Wright, 66, who began the process of retirement two years ago, is resisting fully relinquishing his duties as senior pastor, hanging on to power in the church he helped build.




Wright was officially to have stepped down last Sunday, June 1. And from the pulpit at 7:30 a.m. that day, Wright's hand-picked successor, the Rev. Otis Moss III, preached what should have been his first sermon as senior pastor of Trinity, one of the Chicago's largest congregations and among the most influential religious institutions in America. Instead, on church bulletins on June 1, Moss was identified simply as "pastor" rather than "senior pastor," even as Wright assumed the title "pastor emeritus." Indeed, Trinity members familiar with the developments say that on May 27, Moss was summoned to the church's massive brown sanctuary for a meeting that included Wright, several church board members and other senior leaders. According to those sources, Moss, 37, expected the meeting to finalize transition plans. Instead, Wright suggested the board merely declare Moss "senior pastor-elect" because the younger cleric needed "supervision" — effectively ensuring Wright remains Trinity's preacher-in-chief. Wright's essential argument hinges on a technicality: Moss is an ordained Baptist minister who has yet to be fully ordained in the United Church of Christ, the predominantly white protestant denomination of which the roughly 8,500-member Trinity is the largest congregation.

As news of the situation traveled through the congregation, many Trinity members were baffled. "Two years ago, you felt God gave you the vision to bring Rev. Moss here," one Trinity member said this week, referring to Wright's explanation for hiring Moss. "Now," the same member added, "why are you second-guessing God's vision, and saying Rev. Moss isn't qualified, that somehow he needs to go through more hoops?"

According to Trinity members familiar with the situation, after the May 27 meeting, Moss was ordered to tell the first person he hired — his head of communications — that she could no longer serve in the paid pastoral staff position. At least one other Trinity staffer has also been relieved of her duties in recent days. One source familiar with the situation said of Wright and the dismissals, "He doesn't have to run it by the board."

Sunday June 1 lacked the fanfare that often marks the official start of a pastor's tenure. In fact, Wright didn't even show up, for reasons church officials have so far declined to explain. From the pulpit on Sunday, Moss didn't address the unseen drama, and later that evening he left for a vacation. "He has inherited this mess," one Moss supporter observes, "and his priority is to help a congregation heal and move forward. Hopefully Wright will let him do that." "The church is splitting," says one Trinity member. "It's sad, because this is a case of the older leader not being prepared to pass the mantle to the new leadership, and all that the new leadership represents."

Church officials have been evasive if not obstreperous in clarifying the precise timelines for the transition from Wright to Moss. Trinity's spokeswoman, Donna Hammond-Miller, responded to questions on the matter by e-mailing a reporter the church's already widely circulated response to the Obama family's departure. Pressed further on Sunday morning in between church services, Hammond-Miller said: "Those questions won't be answered at this time." When asked to help clarify points for the sake of accuracy, Hammond-Miller responded, "That's your problem, not mine." When queried by TIME again on Wednesday on the same issues, Hammond-Miller said, "They're not responding to those questions. That's the pastor's choice."

Officials at the United Church of Christ's national headquarters in Cleveland are aware of the leadership tension at Trinity. However, they say, individual U.C.C. churches are autonomous and the national body can do little to intervene. Barbara Powell, a U.C.C. headquarters spokeswoman, noted that "Trinity didn't follow the normal U.C.C. guidelines for the [pastoral] search" (Wright handpicked Moss, apparently without a formal search committee), but said it was hard to imagine that Moss wouldn't successfully complete the ordination process.

At several points in recent years, Wright has openly contemplated his retirement. But the rift between Wright and Moss was unexpected. In early 2006, Wright announced that Moss would be his successor. It was an interesting choice, considering Moss's pedigree: His parents were civil rights movement activists married by Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., and his father is a prominent Cleveland minister. Educated at Morehouse and Yale, Moss had since 1997 led an Augusta, Ga., congregation, boosting its membership from 125 to some 2,100. In a January 2007 interview with Trumpet, a Trinity-affiliated magazine, Wright recalled introducing Moss to the congregation. "I had prayed to God to send someone to God's church. God answered my prayer in Otis," Wright told the publication. "Don't think," he added in the interview, "I would turn over 36 years to someone I didn't have complete confidence in."

In accepting the Trinity job, Moss apparently bypassed an opportunity to assume leadership at his father's church. Moss moved his wife and two children to Chicago, where he was to serve as an associate pastor at Trinity during the two-year transition. By most accounts, Moss quickly energized Trinity, particularly with his easy, unself-conscious references from the pulpit to both hip-hop culture and deep biblical scholarship. However, in an August 2007 Cleveland Plain Dealer article, Moss seemed to foreshadow his troubles in Trinity. The generation gap plaguing such institutions, Moss said, is "a gap of language, values. It's a gap in the best tactics on how to transform the black community. It's an intellectual gap in many ways. There has to be a dialogue between those generations [so] that you don't cast aside one generation or the other, or one generation doesn't demonize the other."

The church became an issue in the presidential campaign after Wright's videotaped comments on 9/11 and bitter aspects of the black experience in America were propagated widely over the Internet. In response, Obama delivered his widely praised March 18 speech on race, in which the candidate repeatedly referred to Wright as his "former pastor." Then came Wright's fiery April 28 speech and haughty question-and-answer session at the National Press Club, in Washington. The next day, Obama denounced his "former pastor" outright. Attempting to quell the anxiety at Trinity, Moss wrote a "Declaration of Interdependence," which began: "We pray for our pastor. We pray for our member, who is a public servant.... We, the community of Trinity, are concerned, hurt, shocked, dismayed, frustrated, fearful and heartbroken." Now, without Obama in the church, Moss must deal with the formidable figure of Jeremiah Wright alone.
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,...4,00.html?imw=Y

In WWI almost all of the deaths were uniformed... WWII was mostly uniformed, but a lot of civilian dead... every war since has been more and more civilian than uniformed deaths... presently, in modern warfare, you have a much better chance if your in uniform as almost all the death is among the civilian population...

Modern warfare sucks... big time.

What steps would you take to eliminate warfare, CharlieRay?

kill all the right wingers