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Arturo_Vandelay
Thanks for the fun linkz.

Popular economics? Maybe people would be better off studying REAL economics and not what is popular, which would be free stuff paid for by somebody else.
Nomarchy
QUOTE(Arturo_Vandelay @ Aug 3 2005, 07:12 AM)
Thanks for the fun linkz.

Popular economics? Maybe people would be better off studying REAL economics and not what is popular, which would be free stuff paid for by somebody else.
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Did you ever go to the link?

Most distinctly UN-popular would be the economics 'taught' through there.

It's just the name of a website.

Your problem is that you cannot fathom that there are folks around who have studied REAL economics, probably a lot more and more deeply than you have, and disagree with you.
Arturo_Vandelay
QUOTE(Nomarchy @ Aug 3 2005, 11:35 PM)
Did you ever go to the link?

Most distinctly UN-popular would be the economics 'taught' through there.

It's just the name of a website.

Your problem is that you cannot fathom that there are folks around who have studied REAL economics, probably a lot more and more deeply than you have, and disagree with you.
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I can fathom that people can study a lot and still be wrong. Provably wrong in the real world.
cspanjunky
different strokes
for different people

http://www.kexp.org/
Preachin' the Blues
9am-12pm Sundays
Bee
QUOTE(cspanjunky @ Aug 7 2005, 12:05 PM)
different strokes
for different people

http://www.kexp.org/
Preachin' the Blues
9am-12pm Sundays
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I likes the blues..........
Nomarchy
QUOTE(Arturo_Vandelay @ Aug 4 2005, 07:59 AM)
I can fathom that people can study a lot and still be wrong. Provably wrong in the real world.
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So, the problem is not that people don't study or study the 'wrong' economics, then, right?
cspanjunky
QUOTE(cspanjunky @ Aug 3 2005, 06:03 AM)


GENERAL DESCRIPTION:
websites that will get closed-minded, corporate peon's panties in a bunch.(or worse yet. twisted.)
(warning: one description may not fit all. use with caution.)
Arturo_Vandelay
QUOTE(Nomarchy @ Aug 8 2005, 08:52 AM)
So, the problem is not that people don't study or study the 'wrong' economics, then, right?
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The outcome may well be the same. If you say you're an economist, set up an economic system that people follow, and it fails miserably I'd say you're espoused the "wrong" economics. Conversly if you get people to follow a system that is magnificently successful I'd say you were pushing the "right" economics.

Of couse economics is intertwined with politics so it's hard to say exactly how much of success or failure can be tied to economics versus politics in the real world.
Nomarchy
QUOTE
If you say you're an economist, set up an economic system that people follow, and it fails miserably I'd say you're espoused the "wrong" economics.


Who did that? And what did their claiming to be an economist have to do with their ability to 'set up an economic system that people follow'?
cspanjunky
QUOTE(Bee @ Aug 7 2005, 09:04 PM)
I likes the blues..........
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The Roadhouse: Roots rock, blues, soul and R&B.
Wednesday's 6-9:00 pm

http://www.kexp.org/

Bipartisan Music???
Bee
QUOTE(cspanjunky @ Aug 10 2005, 08:59 PM)
The Roadhouse: Roots rock, blues, soul and R&B.
Wednesday's 6-9:00 pm

http://www.kexp.org/

Bipartisan Music???
[right][snapback]113026[/snapback][/right]


The Blues iz bi-partsan and non-discriminatory. I hired a Blues band for my wedding. Shoulda got Johnny Nitro and the doorslammers. I didn't know I could afford them tho.

I likes it

them, er.

unsure.gif

Thanks.
Billy Pilgrim
QUOTE(Bee @ Aug 10 2005, 11:43 PM)
The Blues iz bi-partsan and non-discriminatory. I hired a Blues band for my wedding. Shoulda got Johnny Nitro and the doorslammers. I didn't know I could afford them tho.

I likes it

them, er.

unsure.gif

Thanks.
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Who or what are Johnny Nitro and The Doorslammers?

Or were you being clever, and alluding to hiring a band befitting the explosive situations and room exiting habits that followed your nuptuals?
Bee
QUOTE(Billy Pilgrim @ Aug 11 2005, 06:45 AM)
Who or what are Johnny Nitro and The Doorslammers?

Or were you being clever, and alluding to hiring a band befitting the explosive situations and room exiting habits that followed your nuptuals?
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Best dang Blues Band in San Francisco.

The rest is irony.
Arturo_Vandelay
Irony my shirt.
cspanjunky
At KEXP they have both kinds of music.
Country and Western.

Swingin' Doors Thursday's 6-9:00pm

Alternative Country, Honky Tonk, Country Boogie, Western Swing.

http://www.kexp.org/
Bee
QUOTE(Arturo_Vandelay @ Aug 11 2005, 01:55 PM)
Irony my shirt.
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more like.
Billy Pilgrim
QUOTE(Bee @ Aug 12 2005, 12:50 AM)
more like.
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Sometimes you find a diamond in a field of pebbles.

user posted image

But that's very, very rare.
Guest_Kathe_*
Good day.

I haven’t posted on this forum yet, but did when we were all cspan.

I’ve been busy trying to understand what the heck is going on, for real, all politics aside. I don’t know if I’m there yet, but I have come across some food for thought, stuff that you all ought to look into.

I know from the cspan forum that you all are fine Americans. May our Creator bless you all for that. Our differences may be on a political bend, but just for a time put all that aside and focus on America and our great country, the Constitution and Bill of Rights that makes it the greatest human experiment of all time.

Currently we have NAFTA, which has truly done nothing of what it was touted to be when signed into law by then President Clinton. It has allowed over 900,000 jobs to be outsourced and our economy has suffered.

More currently the newer CAFTA passed narrowly under President Bush. It too holds no promise better than NAFTA did. It truly is a stepping stone toward even more destruction to our Constitution under FTAA.

You know of the EU in Europe and it being comprised of many European countries. Do we want our great country to become part of an AmerU consisting of the Americas in total where we have less American rights, and become part of a single Continental government?

Okay, I am only starting to scratch the surface here of something that has me concerned. It stretches over party lines as you can deduce from the two opposite Presidents listed above.

Please review the three issues of NAFTA, CAFTA and FTAA and come to your own conclusions. I truly trust all who post here to be good American citizens who, differences aside, all want what is best for our country and its citizens.

FTAA is coming; NAFTA and CAFTA are already here. There is more there than just trade issues, but even basing your conclusions of trade, who is benefiting by these actions? Americans have suffered under NAFTA, wait to see what CAFTA will do but FTAA is even more dangerous to our great country and the Constitution.

If you are already up on the FTAA stuff, please help me to understand it better. It is so difficult to comprehend all that these laws involve, until we see them in action, such as NAFTA.

I am so glad you all are still discussing actively all that is at issue for America. You all give me hope that we can find a way to make a difference.

Kathe

Just a couple of links to start with.
www.ftaaresistance.org
www.stopftaa.org
gtessex
QUOTE(Guest_Kathe_* @ Aug 12 2005, 10:21 AM)
Good day.

I haven’t posted on this forum yet, but did when we were all cspan. 

I’ve been busy trying to understand what the heck is going on, for real, all politics aside.  I don’t know if I’m there yet, but I have come across some food for thought, stuff that you all ought to look into.

I know from the cspan forum that you all are fine Americans.  May our Creator bless you all for that.  Our differences may be on a political bend, but just for a time put all that aside and focus on America and our great country, the Constitution and Bill of Rights that makes it the greatest human experiment of all time.

Currently we have NAFTA, which has truly done nothing of what it was touted to be when signed into law by then President Clinton.  It has allowed over 900,000 jobs to be outsourced and our economy has suffered.

More currently the newer CAFTA passed narrowly under President Bush.  It too holds no promise better than NAFTA did. It truly is a stepping stone toward even more destruction to our Constitution under FTAA.

You know of the EU in Europe and it being comprised of many European countries.  Do we want our great country to become part of an AmerU consisting of the Americas in total where we have less American rights, and become part of a single Continental government?

Okay, I am only starting to scratch the surface here of something that has me concerned.  It stretches over party lines as you can deduce from the two opposite Presidents listed above.

Please review the three issues of NAFTA, CAFTA and FTAA and come to your own conclusions.  I truly trust all who post here to be good American citizens who, differences aside, all want what is best for our country and its citizens.

FTAA is coming; NAFTA and CAFTA are already here.  There is more there than just trade issues, but even basing your conclusions of trade, who is benefiting by these actions?  Americans have suffered under NAFTA, wait to see what CAFTA will do but FTAA is even more dangerous to our great country and the Constitution.

If you are already up on the FTAA stuff, please help me to understand it better.  It is so difficult to comprehend all that these laws involve, until we see them in action, such as NAFTA.

I am so glad you all are still discussing actively all that is at issue for America.  You all give me hope that we can find a way to make a difference.

Kathe

Just a couple of links to start with.
www.ftaaresistance.org
www.stopftaa.org
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Hi Kathe,

I do remember you from Cspan, Hope you join us, we are pretty good bunch. We once awhile let our emotions get to us, (right FJ? smile.gif) We do however respect each other.

On the issues of NAFTA & CAFTA I am on record as being 'neutral' on this topic. I agree with you points, but also see a 'silver lining'. True, we have lost jobs and industries to NAFTA, but others companies have emerged or expanded to take advantage of the NAFTA agreement. Countries like India & China are expanding economies and they need our products that can only be produced here in the USA.
Another plus....I am not sure if this is due to NAFTA, but several foreign automakers have opened up assy plants here in the US.

I am thinking long term, NAFTA & CAFTA will be a benefit for American.....time will tell!
RoccoR
Good Morning Kathe,

You are not the only one that needs help in this area.

QUOTE(Guest_Kathe_* @ Aug 12 2005, 10:21 AM)

If you are already up on the FTAA stuff, please help me to understand it better.  It is so difficult to comprehend all that these laws involve, until we see them in action, such as NAFTA.


(COMMENT)

Over time, I too have lost the meaning and purpose of these various trade agreements.

I need someone to draw me a picture.
    What industries do these help and how?

    When will we see some tangible results?

    How do we judge the advantages and performance of these agreements relative to American economics?

    What is the political intention in making these agreements?

    Who do these agreements favor?

I honestly do not understand.

Most Respectfully,
gtessex
QUOTE(RoccoR @ Aug 12 2005, 01:09 PM)
Good Morning Kathe,

You are not the only one that needs help in this area.
(COMMENT)

Over time, I too have lost the meaning and purpose of these various trade agreements.

I need someone to draw me a picture.
    What industries do these help and how?

    When will we see some tangible results?

    How do we judge the advantages and performance of these agreements relative to American economics?

    What is the political intention in making these agreements? 

    Who do these agreements favor?

I honestly do not understand.

Most Respectfully,
[right][snapback]113659[/snapback][/right]


Rocco,

I don't know of anybody here that is qualified to answer that!

I am certainly no expert.

I do have one example of one company that has benefited. That's Caterpillar. I came across an article awhile back stating that this is one company that has benefited by the NAFTA agreement. If I can find it....I'll post it!

QUOTE
Caterpillar offers its products worldwide. The company was formed as Caterpillar Tractor Co. in 1925, pursuant to the merger of The Holt Manufacturing Company and the C. L. Best Tractor Co. Caterpillar Tractor Co. changed its name to Caterpillar, Inc. in 1986. The company is headquartered in Peoria, Illinois.


http://finance.yahoo.com/q/pr?s=CAT
gtessex
Here is one article of interest. Not the one I remember.

QUOTE
Caterpillar is situated to compete successfully in the international economy of the 21st century. It has recently signed agreements totalling $200 million with the Commonwealth of Independent States (the former Soviet Union) to supply tractors, pipelayers and off-highway trucks. Shortly after the U.S. Congress passed the North American Free Trade Agreement, which Caterpillar supported, the company received orders totalling $47.5 million from Mexico for Illinois-manufactured machines. Its outlook is rosy. There does not appear to be anything that could hold it back, including the UAW.


http://www.lib.niu.edu/ipo/ii940622.html
Guest_kathe_*
Gtessex, Rocco and all here, thank you for your thoughtful replies. This new action (FTAA) has gotten my attention and will continue to until I have a clear understanding of how it will affect the USA.

I feel that the track record of NAFTA and now CAFTA do not make me feel comfortable with the continued course this country is taking toward FTAA.

Right now, above all the countries issues that are at hand, this one seems to matter the most.

I will continue my research, with all the abilities I have, and I will hope to read on here your discoveries and opinions.

I understand that NAFTA has done some benefit to the US, it just seems to me that there is a lot more negative that has resulted outweighing the positive.

My main concern is the idea that with FTAA our Constitution will become basically voided, as the intent is to unify the America’s into one type of nation with rules applying to all. I cannot comprehend how South America can be brought to our standards without our standards being diminished. I do, however, believe in human rights, trade rights etc., just not at the sake of dismantling our Constitution and form of government. I have also read where the borders will become open. How could that occur without giving up our Constitution?

There are so many issues that face our great nation. I just feel this one is the most destructive of all.

Thanks again for your replies, and please do not dismiss this concern and keep it up on your personal radar. Any help of understanding of this for me will be so truly appreciated.

You folks are still the best. CSpan sure made a big mistake to let this go. Thank you Art Vandelay for keeping us all together.

Kathe
SpaceCowboy
And thank you Kathe for joining us here.

And, Tell your friends! cool.gif
Bee
Kathe! You made it! AFT, lady! Now you've gotta sign up and get a coool avatar.

NAFTA and CAFTA are inneresting. I kind of think of them as "good intentions" but frankly, until we (the U.S.) start enforcing the labor and environmental protections that are part of it, it's just a free-for-all for bidness.

That's why it's so confusing, I thnk. The agreements are not being implemented the way they were written. That might change with a different administration, but I don't know.

Perhaps they never meant to enforce those things. Hope for the best, but expect the worst.

Guest
QUOTE(Bee @ Aug 12 2005, 10:44 PM)
Kathe! You made it! AFT, lady! Now you've gotta sign up and get a coool avatar.

NAFTA and CAFTA are inneresting. I kind of think of them as "good intentions" but frankly, until we (the U.S.) start enforcing the labor and environmental protections that are part of it, it's just a free-for-all for bidness.

That's why it's so confusing, I thnk. The agreements are not being implemented the way they were written. That might change with a different administration, but I don't know.

Perhaps they never meant to enforce those things. Hope for the best, but expect the worst.
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Any labor/environmental riders in either NAFTA or CAFTA are a slap in the face to both.

A slap in the face.
RoccoR
et al,

My impression is that CAFTA and NAFTA are similar and that both were designed to allow US industry to outsource production at a lower price.

QUOTE(Guest @ Aug 12 2005, 09:08 PM)
Any labor/environmental riders in either NAFTA or CAFTA are a slap in the face to both.

A slap in the face.


(COMMENT)

I have yet to see a serious dicussion on any one positive aspect on either agreement. I want to see a comparative analysis of Pre-Agreement Promises compared to Post-Agreement Reality.

Most Respectfully,
gtessex
QUOTE(RoccoR @ Aug 13 2005, 07:58 AM)
et al,

My impression is that CAFTA and NAFTA are similar and that both were designed to allow US industry to outsource production at a lower price.
(COMMENT)

I have yet to see a serious dicussion on any one positive aspect on either agreement.  I want to see a comparative analysis of Pre-Agreement Promises compared to Post-Agreement Reality.

Most Respectfully,
[right][snapback]113818[/snapback][/right]


This is one of those issues that would take hours to research to answer that question. The issue is to complex to understand. You will find information that's
slanted in both directions.

I posted a link showing how NAFTA has had a positive effect on Caterpillar. I am sure someone could link to an industry or and individual company that NAFTA has had a negative impact on.
Nomarchy
QUOTE(Arturo_Vandelay @ Aug 11 2005, 09:55 AM)
Irony my shirt.
[right][snapback]113236[/snapback][/right]


Explain!
SpaceCowboy
QUOTE(Nomarchy @ Aug 15 2005, 06:18 AM)
Explain!
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It's a yolk, son.
Nomarchy
QUOTE(SpaceCowboy @ Aug 15 2005, 04:19 AM)
It's a yolk, son.
[right][snapback]114696[/snapback][/right]


Oh geez, so filthing obvious now . . .

Thanks (for nothin), Sir.

:-)
cspanjunky
It's Rockabilly Time!

Shake the Shack-

KEXP Streaming Radio
http://www.kexp.org/
Arturo_Vandelay
QUOTE(SpaceCowboy @ Aug 15 2005, 05:19 AM)
It's a yolk, son.
[right][snapback]114696[/snapback][/right]


"Irony my shirt beyotch" would have been more recognizable?
cspanjunky
COOL!!!!
i'm a Sergeant!!!!!

PYLE!!!!!
Nomarchy
QUOTE(Arturo_Vandelay @ Aug 19 2005, 07:27 PM)
"Irony my shirt beyotch" would have been more recognizable?
[right][snapback]116418[/snapback][/right]


No. It was fine as it was. I dropped the ball on that one.
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