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hunin
QUOTE (Davis 2.0 @ Feb 8 2009, 10:44 AM) *
Hardly. It's been two weeks and you're already labeling him Clinton's 3rd term? laugh.gif laugh.gif



What channel do you watch? He's not having much success with obstructionist Republicans. He is not using the heavy hand that Bush used. He's trying to reach across the aisle but Republicans feel they cannot hand him a success no matter what it may cost the country. They are truly putting their party's needs before the country's good.

I've already heard one of the ahem! southern gentlemen say they had to defeat his stimulus in order to have the upper hand on health care and other future plans. That's pretty blatant and self-serving. Let them do it. They got blamed for shutting down the government in Gingrich's time and they'll get the blame for this too if the economy gets even worse.


Just so all around.
hunin
QUOTE (Davis 2.0 @ Feb 8 2009, 10:51 AM) *
That's mighty progressive of you. Clinton smoked, I assume Bush did and now Obama.

I think they should do some serious studies on the effects of marijuana on the body. It would be nice to be able to tell kids what kind of damage it could do to your lungs, if any. I assume it can't be healthy. When I was a kid I saw examples of what cigarettes would do to your lungs. That might not have stopped me but I was informed.


No documented death by use of reefer as I recall.

Cigs and booze can't say that.
hunin
QUOTE (Brian_Lambchops @ Feb 8 2009, 10:55 AM) *
I think they expect taxes if you mix up very much. Avoid them and try and sell any and I bet you get in big trouble. Maybe as much as growing a pot plant, since the government just hates anyone making money without giving up a cut.


Yes, taxes on selling beer you made.

That said, no tax on what you use or give away.

As davis noted, the front end costs are not cheap tho.
hunin
QUOTE (arebuntz @ Feb 8 2009, 10:59 AM) *
Inhaling burning vegetation never a good idea...


Unless you are getting chemo and vomiting.
hunin
QUOTE (Lord_Proprietor @ Feb 8 2009, 11:00 AM) *
Would you like Newt Gingrich for the Sect. of HHS?



laugh.gif

Maybe ambassador to Lithuania. Or Australia.


laugh.gif
hunin
QUOTE (Arturo_Vandelay @ Feb 8 2009, 11:13 AM) *
It's almost legal here, but selling it is very illegal. Ciggs are almost more hated.


By far.
hunin
QUOTE (Davis 2.0 @ Feb 8 2009, 04:19 PM) *
I think you cap it before it's completely done.


Too much yeast can wreck the deal.


arebuntz
QUOTE (hunin @ Feb 9 2009, 07:19 PM) *
Unless you are getting chemo and vomiting.

Better ways to get the THC effect than inhaling burning vegetation...
hunin
Not really. All meds are a poor replacement.
inyerface
if buntzy believes it that settles it

watch out he'll crap all over the place if you post facts

(hint: peolpe who throw up can't take pills)
hunin
well, they can try

and then throw them up

no need to eat smoke
hunin
Obama's getting no pass:


QUOTE
What do you call someone who eliminates hundreds of thousands of American jobs, deprives millions of adequate health care and nutrition, undermines schools, but offers a $15,000 bonus to affluent people who flip their houses?

A proud centrist. For that is what the senators who ended up calling the tune on the stimulus bill just accomplished.

Even if the original Obama plan — around $800 billion in stimulus, with a substantial fraction of that total given over to ineffective tax cuts — had been enacted, it wouldn’t have been enough to fill the looming hole in the U.S. economy, which the Congressional Budget Office estimates will amount to $2.9 trillion over the next three years.

Yet the centrists did their best to make the plan weaker and worse.

One of the best features of the original plan was aid to cash-strapped state governments, which would have provided a quick boost to the economy while preserving essential services. But the centrists insisted on a $40 billion cut in that spending.

The original plan also included badly needed spending on school construction; $16 billion of that spending was cut. It included aid to the unemployed, especially help in maintaining health care — cut. Food stamps — cut. All in all, more than $80 billion was cut from the plan, with the great bulk of those cuts falling on precisely the measures that would do the most to reduce the depth and pain of this slump.

On the other hand, the centrists were apparently just fine with one of the worst provisions in the Senate bill, a tax credit for home buyers. Dean Baker of the Center for Economic Policy Research calls this the “flip your house to your brother” provision: it will cost a lot of money while doing nothing to help the economy.

All in all, the centrists’ insistence on comforting the comfortable while afflicting the afflicted will, if reflected in the final bill, lead to substantially lower employment and substantially more suffering.

But how did this happen? I blame President Obama’s belief that he can transcend the partisan divide — a belief that warped his economic strategy.

After all, many people expected Mr. Obama to come out with a really strong stimulus plan, reflecting both the economy’s dire straits and his own electoral mandate.

Instead, however, he offered a plan that was clearly both too small and too heavily reliant on tax cuts. Why? Because he wanted the plan to have broad bipartisan support, and believed that it would. Not long ago administration strategists were talking about getting 80 or more votes in the Senate.

Mr. Obama’s postpartisan yearnings may also explain why he didn’t do something crucially important: speak forcefully about how government spending can help support the economy. Instead, he let conservatives define the debate, waiting until late last week before finally saying what needed to be said — that increasing spending is the whole point of the plan.

And Mr. Obama got nothing in return for his bipartisan outreach. Not one Republican voted for the House version of the stimulus plan, which was, by the way, better focused than the original administration proposal.

In the Senate, Republicans inveighed against “pork” — although the wasteful spending they claimed to have identified (much of it was fully justified) was a trivial share of the bill’s total. And they decried the bill’s cost — even as 36 out of 41 Republican senators voted to replace the Obama plan with $3 trillion, that’s right, $3 trillion in tax cuts over 10 years.

So Mr. Obama was reduced to bargaining for the votes of those centrists. And the centrists, predictably, extracted a pound of flesh — not, as far as anyone can tell, based on any coherent economic argument, but simply to demonstrate their centrist mojo. They probably would have demanded that $100 billion or so be cut from anything Mr. Obama proposed; by coming in with such a low initial bid, the president guaranteed that the final deal would be much too small.

Such are the perils of negotiating with yourself.

Now, House and Senate negotiators have to reconcile their versions of the stimulus, and it’s possible that the final bill will undo the centrists’ worst. And Mr. Obama may be able to come back for a second round. But this was his best chance to get decisive action, and it fell short.

So has Mr. Obama learned from this experience? Early indications aren’t good.

For rather than acknowledge the failure of his political strategy and the damage to his economic strategy, the president tried to put a postpartisan happy face on the whole thing. “Democrats and Republicans came together in the Senate and responded appropriately to the urgency this moment demands,” he declared on Saturday, and “the scale and scope of this plan is right.”

No, they didn’t, and no, it isn’t.


http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/09/opinion/...amp;ref=opinion

Ouch, Paul.

That said, this could well be just be Part I.

Likely always was.

This bill is just basic triage. With some hopes.

Mizilus
QUOTE (SpaceCowboy @ Feb 8 2009, 08:24 AM) *
You can in Texas, and no need for a doctor. Dad tried making beer for a while when he and mom were retired. He bought all the right equipment and ingredients, and produced for at least a few batches.

The results were definitely recognizable as beer, but a bit off from what our tastes were accustomed to. It's a fair amount of hassle, and eventually his interest waned.



My buddy used to make several kinds of beer all the time. Some of them were DAMN good. Up here microbrews are a big deal. Real beer for real men (and the wimins).
Mizilus
QUOTE (Davis 2.0 @ Feb 8 2009, 10:24 AM) *
I have no idea why dad's beer exploded but it had enough pressure to break bottles as well as pop the cap.



Bottled it too soon.
hunin
Outstanding press conference by Obama.

It's so refreshing. He speaks in sentences and paragraphs. Yowzer.
Mizilus
Is it true he did a town hall today w/o a an audience chock full of hand picked zealots?
arebuntz
Just you Innie...

QUOTE (inyerface @ Feb 9 2009, 07:39 PM) *
if buntzy believes it that settles it

watch out he'll crap all over the place if you post facts

(hint: peolpe who throw up can't take pills)

wrong, PEOLPE who want to smoke weed can't take pills... and smoking burning vegetation not the answer... trans dermal patch, shot, nose drop, IV, etc...
underhi2p
Strange that The Baby Jesus is toutin' RVs.

Those farkers waste almost as much gas as Junior Robbie Kennedy and the Goracle combined.

underhi2p
QUOTE (hunin @ Feb 9 2009, 08:33 PM) *
Outstanding press conference by Obama.

It's so refreshing. He speaks in sentences and paragraphs. Yowzer.



I'd like to see him say something meaningful, instead of reflections on his campaign.
Nomarchy
QUOTE (hunin @ Feb 9 2009, 05:24 PM) *
Obama's getting no pass:




http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/09/opinion/...amp;ref=opinion

Ouch, Paul.

That said, this could well be just be Part I.

Likely always was.

This bill is just basic triage. With some hopes.



The game is not over. There's "conference". If Obama 'caves in again' and supports the Senate version, then he'll deserve all the criticism (with which I, so far, agree).

The 'centrist' compromise is a bunch of BULLSHIT. The cut to the help to the States is completely and utterly unconscionable.
arebuntz
Pengi, you gettin' a little worried about the Cali budget?
Nomarchy
QUOTE (arebuntz @ Feb 9 2009, 05:52 PM) *
Pengi, you gettin' a little worried about the Cali budget?



Aren't you?
SpaceCowboy
QUOTE (arebuntz @ Feb 9 2009, 07:35 PM) *
Just you Innie...


wrong, PEOLPE who want to smoke weed can't take pills... and smoking burning vegetation not the answer... trans dermal patch, shot, nose drop, IV, etc...

Maybe so, but your Libertarian instincts should tell you that it's none of the government's business either way.
Nomarchy
QUOTE (SpaceCowboy @ Feb 9 2009, 05:58 PM) *
Maybe so, but your Libertarian instincts should tell you that it's none of the government's business either way.



I support the development of cannabis "white portion" Swedish/Danish snus.

Not for me, but for those who need the THC plus the oral stimulation.

laugh.gif
arebuntz
QUOTE (Nomarchy @ Feb 9 2009, 08:55 PM) *
Aren't you?

Cali budget only a predictable amusement....
arebuntz
QUOTE (SpaceCowboy @ Feb 9 2009, 08:58 PM) *
Maybe so, but your Libertarian instincts should tell you that it's none of the government's business either way.

ABSOLUTELY... don't need the gubment to tell us not to inhale burning vegetation...
Nomarchy
QUOTE (arebuntz @ Feb 9 2009, 06:12 PM) *
Cali budget only a predictable amusement....



That's the part that Bee used to rightly criticize you about. That has to be the biggest, deepest flaw in your character.

Something that I, personally, cannot get over. IRL, I would, if I could get away with it, punish you severely for.
hunin
QUOTE (Mizilus @ Feb 9 2009, 07:34 PM) *
Is it true he did a town hall today w/o a an audience chock full of hand picked zealots?


Yupper.
BrooklynBill
QUOTE (Nomarchy @ Feb 10 2009, 03:17 AM) *
That's the part that Bee used to rightly criticize you about. That has to be the biggest, deepest flaw in your character.

Something that I, personally, cannot get over. IRL, I would, if I could get away with it, punish you severely for.



I wouldn't want to have any money in CALPERS. How's that working out for the state employees of California? If it was up tome, I'd confiscate some of the difference from Arnold's bank account. laugh.gif

Side note: Arnold's career as a politician is basically over.
hunin
There's a bet I would put dollars to donuts against.

Looking in from the outside.

He's like Ventura with a brain. ohmy.gif
BrooklynBill
QUOTE (hunin @ Feb 10 2009, 03:42 AM) *
There's a bet I would put dollars to donuts against.

Looking in from the outside.

He's like Ventura with a brain. ohmy.gif



Ventura is smarter than Arnold, and he's a badass in real life. laugh.gif
inyerface
Senator calls for investigation of Bush officials

Sen. Patrick Leahy, chairman of the judiciary committee, says a bipartisan inquiry could answer questions about warrantless surveillance, interrogations and other aspects of the war on terrorism.

QUOTE
the Justice Department's support for warrantless surveillance, coercive interrogation techniques, and the politicization of the hirings and firings of prosecutors


http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/wa...0,4555508.story

hunin
QUOTE (BrooklynBill @ Feb 9 2009, 08:44 PM) *
Ventura is smarter than Arnold, and he's a badass in real life. laugh.gif


No, not really.

Ventura is dumber and a punk-ass whiner.

Saw himself as a victim of the press. Whiner.


SpaceCowboy
QUOTE (inyerface @ Feb 9 2009, 08:56 PM) *
Senator calls for investigation of Bush officials

Sen. Patrick Leahy, chairman of the judiciary committee, says a bipartisan inquiry could answer questions about warrantless surveillance, interrogations and other aspects of the war on terrorism.



http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/wa...0,4555508.story

It's time to get Pelosi and Reid under oath and find out what they knew and when.
Nomarchy
FWIW, CalPERS is doing alright, actually. No, seriously.

It's the 'operating budgets' that are fecked!
Mizilus
QUOTE (BrooklynBill @ Feb 9 2009, 06:44 PM) *
Ventura is smarter than Arnold, and he's a badass in real life. laugh.gif



Hell yeah. Professional "wrestler" or no, the guy walked the walk.
underhi2p
QUOTE (SpaceCowboy @ Feb 9 2009, 10:12 PM) *
It's time to get Pelosi and Reid under oath and find out what they knew and when.



It's time to get Paddie Leahy under oath too.

Leahy is a major douchebag. He must have been on a Kennedy bender for the past few years. He's seems a little wet-brainish.

arebuntz
QUOTE (Nomarchy @ Feb 9 2009, 09:17 PM) *
That's the part that Bee used to rightly criticize you about. That has to be the biggest, deepest flaw in your character.

Something that I, personally, cannot get over. IRL, I would, if I could get away with it, punish you severely for.



Bailing out the people (voters) of Cali for their poor choices over the years will only lead them to continue making poor choices...
arebuntz
QUOTE (inyerface @ Feb 9 2009, 09:56 PM) *
Senator calls for investigation of Bush officials

Sen. Patrick Leahy, chairman of the judiciary committee, says a bipartisan inquiry could answer questions about warrantless surveillance, interrogations and other aspects of the war on terrorism.



http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/wa...0,4555508.story

What? No 9/11 Truth Commission?
arebuntz
QUOTE (Nomarchy @ Feb 9 2009, 10:31 PM) *
FWIW, CalPERS is doing alright, actually. No, seriously.

It's the 'operating budgets' that are fecked!

QUOTE
REPORTING FROM SACRAMENTO - The nation's biggest public pension fund, which has lost more than a quarter of its value in the last seven months, is planning to rally big investors nationwide to demand changes in the way Wall Street operates.

The new chief executive of the California Public Employees Retirement System said the fund would work with other state pension funds and retirement systems to insist on greater openness in the way companies are run, tougher regulation by federal agencies, stricter rules on investment-rating groups and better international financial oversight.

CalPERS, an acknowledged pioneer in pushing companies it invests in to improve their internal governance, is ready to take the tactic "to a new level," said lawyer Anne Stausboll, a 10-year fund veteran, who took over Jan. 12.

Such moves, she said, will be a vital part of CalPERS' efforts this year to boost its financial performance. The $174.1-billion fund has lost $65 billion across its investment portfolio since July 1.

CALPERS
arebuntz
QUOTE (inyerface @ Feb 9 2009, 09:56 PM) *
Senator calls for investigation of Bush officials

Sen. Patrick Leahy, chairman of the judiciary committee, says a bipartisan inquiry could answer questions about warrantless surveillance, interrogations and other aspects of the war on terrorism.



http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/wa...0,4555508.story

Yes, those bipartisan inquiries staffed by gubment bureaucrats always get down to the bottom of gubment incompetence...
arebuntz
QUOTE
Former eBay CEO Meg Whitman is going to run for governor of California. Then she can liquidate that mess and sell it on eBay.


Boortz
arebuntz
QUOTE
ALBANY - Efforts to raise income taxes risk prolonging the state's economic slump by permanently driving a generation of laid-off bankers, traders and other top earners out of the state, say some economists and tax experts.

The concern, voiced by Gov. Paterson, Mayor Bloomberg and business leaders, took on new urgency last week when Assembly Speaker Sheldon Silver (D-Manhattan) endorsed a "millionaire's tax" to close the state's $13 billion budget gap.


NY Post
underhi2p
Folks are excited about The Baby Jesus's recovery plan and Timmie Geithner's corporate welfare plan.

Change is in the air.

beasty
QUOTE (underhi2p @ Feb 10 2009, 04:10 PM) *
Change is in the air.



Flying into tin cups everywhere. Now that we have a new FDR we can expect the same kind of results the last FDR got.
CharlieRay
QUOTE (Arturo_Vandelay @ Feb 5 2009, 05:13 PM) *
Cool, something for after tennis. Starting an office that mentions faith doesn't make Obama the next pope.


I can hardly wait for your review.
Arturo_Vandelay
A bit of anti-Obama rhetoric from the same folks in on the 9-11 conspiracy theories.
QUOTE
So much idiocy, and the mainstream is in denial?

Just felt it necessary to remind you that legislative martial law is when the call a vote on the bill regardless of anyone having a chance to read it.

Also that civilian security force was Obama talking about improving foreign standing with use of the peace corps so our military isn't spread so thin with troops on humanitarian duty. No really, watch the full speech.

Bah why bother explaining, you'll believe what you want to believe anyway.
SpaceCowboy
QUOTE (Arturo_Vandelay @ Feb 10 2009, 10:00 PM) *
A bit of anti-Obama rhetoric from the same folks in on the 9-11 conspiracy theories.

Right. And El Rushbo and LP suspect Soros in the run on money market accounts.

Trouble with that is that as soon as the first big fund broke a buck, everybody and his brother would withdraw.
underhi2p
Reaganomics vs. Obamanomics

The current president wants higher taxes, more regulation, more spending and loose money

By PETER FERRARA

In his inaugural address, President Barack Obama said, "The question we ask today is not whether our government is too big or too small, but whether it works -- whether it helps families find jobs at a decent wage, care they can afford, a retirement that is dignified." Or as administration spokeswoman Stephanie Cutter said in January, the touchstone is, "What will have the biggest and most immediate impact on creating private sector jobs and strengthening the middle class? We're guided by what works, not by any ideology or special interests."


Unfortunately, this rhetoric is not true. Mr. Obama's economic policy is following not what has been proven to work but liberal ideology.

The best way to understand this is to compare what's being proposed now with what Ronald Reagan accomplished. In 1980, amid a seriously dysfunctional economy, Reagan campaigned for president on an economic recovery program with four specific components.

The first was across-the-board reductions in tax rates to provide incentives for saving, investment, entrepreneurship and work. The second component was deregulation to remove unnecessary costs on the economy. In today's world, that would especially mean removing the onerous restrictions on energy production -- allowing drilling offshore and onshore for oil and natural gas, revival of the nuclear power industry, and construction of more electric power plants.

Third was the control of government spending. In 1981, Reagan forced through Congress not only his famed, historic tax cuts, but also a package of budget cuts close to 5% of the federal budget -- equivalent to roughly $150 billion today. In constant dollars, nondefense discretionary spending declined by 14.4% from 1981 to 1982, and by 16.8% from 1981 to 1983. Moreover, in constant dollars, this nondefense discretionary spending never returned to its 1981 level for the rest of Reagan's two terms. By 1988, this spending was still down 14.4% from its 1981 level in constant dollars.

Even with the Reagan defense buildup, which helped win the Cold War, total federal spending declined to 21.2% of GDP in 1989 from 23.5% of GDP in 1983. That's a real reduction of 10% in the size of government relative to the economy.

The fourth component of the Reagan recovery plan was tight, anti-inflation monetary policy, which was spectacularly successful. Inflation was cut in half to 6.2% in 1982 from 13.2% in 1980, and cut in half again to 3.2% in 1983.

We know such policies work because they turned around in just two years an economy far worse than today's. We were suffering from multiyear, double-digit inflation, double-digit unemployment, double-digit interest rates, declining incomes, and rising poverty. In fact, what we suffer with today is not the worst economy since the Great Depression, but the worst economy since Jimmy Carter -- the last time liberals were dominant politically and intellectually.

The Obama administration's economic policies do not include any of the four Reagan components. In fact, the stimulus plan is the greatest increase in government spending in the history of the planet. Meanwhile, the Fed is furiously reinflating, sowing more havoc down the line. Mr. Obama is still promising future increases in tax rates by letting the Bush tax cuts lapse, because for ideological reasons he thinks even current rates are too low. And instead of deregulating for more energy production, he is still promising massive increases in regulatory barriers -- through global warming cap-and-trade legislation -- to increased production from proven energy sources to serve an extreme environmentalist ideology.

This is why America seems so hopeless right now, and so depressed. We are stuck going in exactly the wrong direction on economic policy because of currently dominant ideological fashions.

A natural economic recovery will begin sometime this year, not because of the president's policies, but because soon this will be the longest recession since World War II. However, thanks to the administration's retrograde policies -- cut from the cloth of the 1970s and even the 1930s -- the recovery will not be what it should be. Rather, unemployment will remain too high, and inflation will resurge, recreating the disastrous economic results we suffered the last time Keynesian policies were dominant.

Mr. Ferrara is director of entitlement and budget policy for the Institute for Policy Innovation. He served in the White House Office of Policy Development under President Reagan.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1234314847....html#printMode

This dood isn't as optimistic as I am that the Dynamic Duo of The Baby Jesus and Timmie Geithner can dual-handedly fix up the world economy.
patheticJT
QUOTE
"I am in this race to tell the corporate lobbyists that their days of setting the agenda in Washington are over. I have done more than any other candidate in this race to take on lobbyists — and won. They have not funded my campaign, they will not run my White House, and they will not drown out the voices of the American people when I am president."

-- Barack Obama, Speech in Des Moines, IA
November 10, 2007
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