Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: 2009 Health Care Financing Reform
C-Span sucks community > politics > Political Soapbox
Pages: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, 82, 83, 84
arebuntz
Pretty good description of issues in the Senate although does not cover the off nominal options of recision and passing House bill unchanged on House revenue bill.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1109/29275.html
arebuntz
The not nominal procedure may be to attach not the House health care bill but the Senate health care bill to a House revenue bill and pass it with 60 votes not just 50 votes (that part not well explained) but then the House would vote on whatever comes out of the Senate unchanged and bill sent directly to President for signature without a Conference. Bottom line is there are off nominal options that may be employed here before all is done or they just give up for this session.
Brian_Lambchops
QUOTE (underhi2p @ Nov 7 2009, 09:40 PM) *
The House of Representatives passed legislation for the first time Saturday night that would provide health coverage to almost every American after nearly a century of false starts and un-kept campaign promises.


The final vote was 220-215. In all, 219 Democrats voted to approve the measure in a largely party-line vote, with 39 Democrats voting no. One Republican supported the bill, Rep. Joseph Cao (R-La.).





PPHIRL is on its way to saving 'merica.



Obama is promoting some bi-partisanship. Even though it's working against him. I'm sure that in this case bi-partisanship will be portrayed as quite bad.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20091108/D9BREBKG1.html

At its core, the measure would create a federally regulated marketplace where consumers could shop for coverage. In the bill's most controversial provision, the government would sell insurance, although the Congressional Budget Office forecasts that premiums for it would be more expensive than for policies sold by private companies.
arebuntz
QUOTE (Brian_Lambchops @ Nov 8 2009, 01:19 PM) *
In the bill's most controversial provision, the government would sell insurance, although the Congressional Budget Office forecasts that premiums for it would be more expensive than for policies sold by private companies.

I wonder if the CBO sees the sickest folks being "steered" into the gubment plan option? On the other hand I would be somewhat surprised if a gubment plan option is included in the final bill.
Brian_Lambchops
They're comparing it to SS and Medicare, so I expect it to follow the same route those programs did, including massive cost increases and eventual bankruptcy.
Arturo_Vandelay
They just started running commercials on all the cuts coming to Medicare Advantage. Dems still seem to think they can create something out of thin air and government mandates.
SpaceCowboy
Here is one of those "Health Insurance Horror Stories" that they run over at Huffington Post to justify whatever it is that the Dems are about to do to us.

I see a problem in the story, does anyone else?

QUOTE
A Personal Fight for Health Care Reform


It is with the heaviest heart and through many tears that I share this story. My fight for health care reform is a personal one, and one that I feel I need to share.

On July 4, 2009, I lost my brother and my only sibling Eric Alexander De La Cruz. He passed away while awaiting a heart transplant. Five years ago, he was diagnosed with severe dilated cardiomyopathy, a weakening of the heart that prevents it from pumping normally. Since then, we had tried to get Eric insurance coverage that would allow him to get the treatment he needed, but no private insurer would offer him insurance because of this preexisting condition.


My brother and I grew up in Northern California and, though we were a couple years apart, we were always very close.

As kids, we spent all our time on the ice at the local rink. Eric played hockey, while I trained as a figure skater.

As adults, we remained best friends, talking and joking on the phone or over e-mail. We loved trading music and would always keep each other up to date on what was happening in the world of hockey or figure skating. Eric loved the Ducks, and it would crush him if they didn't win. He was a talented artist, music producer, and designer. Most of all, my brother Eric made me see that there is more to life than work.

When Eric's heart condition was diagnosed, our lives changed forever. This past May, his kidneys began to fail and doctors told me only a heart transplant would save his life. Since he was young and otherwise healthy, I thought our chances were excellent.

But Eric did not have the luxury of insurance coverage provided through his employer. His only insurer, state Medicaid, wouldn't cover the out-of-state operation Eric needed. He was denied federal Medicare - twice.

Eventually, when we finally did get federal coverage for Eric, the hospital still demanded private supplemental insurance to help cover the huge expenses. Again, Eric's preexisting condition became a factor in trying to secure that supplemental policy. We were told we might still have to come up with nearly a million dollars.


(more) http://www.huffingtonpost.com/veronica-de-...l_b_349045.html
underhi2p
QUOTE (SpaceCowboy @ Nov 8 2009, 02:16 PM) *
Here is one of those "Health Insurance Horror Stories" that they run over at Huffington Post to justify whatever it is that the Dems are about to do to us.

I see a problem in the story, does anyone else?



(more) http://www.huffingtonpost.com/veronica-de-...l_b_349045.html



The farking government-run plan didn't farking cover this farker's heart transplant.

Eric's sister should have sued Medicaid.

SpaceCowboy
QUOTE (underhi2p @ Nov 8 2009, 02:47 PM) *
The farking government-run plan didn't farking cover this farker's heart transplant.

Eric's sister should have sued Medicaid.

Zackly.

Yet she blames it all on those nasty private insurance companies who for some strange reason refused to sell her brother a multi-million dollar operation for a month's premium after the condition was diagnosed.
inyerface
QUOTE (Arturo_Vandelay @ Nov 8 2009, 11:48 AM) *
They just started running commercials on all the cuts coming to Medicare Advantage. Dems still seem to think they can create something out of thin air and government mandates.


we don't create phony terror threats for political advantage
gtessex
QUOTE (underhi2p @ Nov 7 2009, 11:40 PM) *
PPHIRL is on its way to saving 'merica.


Add the 'Cap & Trade' bill to this crap.....and we are on our way to......somewheres! ohmy.gif

Hope you have ordered your case of Vasoline? We are going to get it put to us. sad.gif
Arturo_Vandelay
QUOTE (inyerface @ Nov 8 2009, 01:36 PM) *
we don't create phony terror threats for political advantage


I would say the creation of all that false accusation against Cheney was indeed a phony threat for political advantage.
inyerface
nothing false about it at all

you choose to believe the lies

he signed on to Rebuilding America's Defenses, which said we needed to be hit

you really think he was fooled on 911?

after all his years in Washington, including Secretary of Defense?

give us a break

fooled you but not me

Innocent
Tracking Your Representatives' Health Care Cash

QUOTE
If you're trying to understand all of the reasons why your representatives may support or oppose certain health care reform measures, we can add the money-in-politics puzzle pieces. Here's a cool tool that brings together data from various parts of OpenSecrets.org to show how much money each current lawmaker has raised from various health-related industries and the health sector overall since 1989 (including the haul of President Obama, who tops every one of these lists). Sort by column to discover that Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-Utah), a member of the Senate Health Committee, is the top recipient of pharmaceutical cash, or that Minority Leader John Boehner (R-Ohio), has collected more money from health insurers than all other current members of Congress. Please note that this includes contributions from individuals and political action committees to both the lawmakers' candidate committees and leadership PACs. Also, the health insurance industry numbers here are a combination of contributions from health and accident insurers, HMOs and other health services.


How much did the healthcare industry spend to buy your congress critter? Here's a handy chart to find out. Here's mine:



smile.gif









Arturo_Vandelay
How much did congress critters spend buying votes directly? They don't even have to earn their money like a private corp, they just take it.
SpaceCowboy
QUOTE (Arturo_Vandelay @ Nov 8 2009, 09:44 PM) *
How much did congress critters spend buying votes directly? They don't even have to earn their money like a private corp, they just take it.

This H/C deal is what we used to call a massive transfer program back in the day due to the subsidies for "afforability".
Arturo_Vandelay
I guess since the transfer will be toward me I should be for it.....

Great South Park on mtv. Will Smith introduces P-Diddy's kids:

P-Diddy Mini, P-Poofy Bite-size, and Poppa-Diddy Diddy Puff Fun-size
BrooklynBill
The pharma companies and insurance companies are going to make out like bandits with this deal.
SpaceCowboy
QUOTE (Arturo_Vandelay @ Nov 8 2009, 10:25 PM) *
I guess since the transfer will be toward me I should be for it.....

Great South Park on mtv. Will Smith introduces P-Diddy's kids:

P-Diddy Mini, P-Poofy Bite-size, and Poppa-Diddy Diddy Puff Fun-size

laugh.gif
BrooklynBill
QUOTE (Arturo_Vandelay @ Nov 9 2009, 03:25 AM) *
I guess since the transfer will be toward me I should be for it.....

Great South Park on mtv. Will Smith introduces P-Diddy's kids:

P-Diddy Mini, P-Poofy Bite-size, and Poppa-Diddy Diddy Puff Fun-size


Did you see the F-word episode?
Arturo_Vandelay
QUOTE (BrooklynBill @ Nov 8 2009, 08:29 PM) *
Did you see the F-word episode?

I've seen them all. Sing the Somali pirate song all the time. The Fatbeard episode.

http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/225458/?tag=song

Somalia Pirate Song:We drink and we pillage and we do what we please / We get all that we want for free / We’ll kick your ass / And rape your lass / Somalian pirates we / So with a yo ho ho (yo ho ho) / And with a yee hee hee (yee hee hee) / We take to the African sea / We’ll brave the squalls / And bust your balls / Somalian pirates we / We left our homes and we left our mothers / To go on a pillaging spree / We’ll cut off your ears / And break your toes / And make you drink our pee / And if you sail into our waters / You best hear this decree / We’ll take your boat / Set your ass afloat / Somalian pirates we / With a yo ho ho (yo ho ho) / And a tricky lah-tee do (tricky lah-tee do) / We’ll shoot you in the face with glee / Then we’ll cut off your cock / And feed it to a croc / Somalian pirates we / Somalian pirates we / Somalian pirates we!
SpaceCowboy
QUOTE (Arturo_Vandelay @ Nov 8 2009, 10:48 PM) *
I've seen them all. Sing the Somali pirate song all the time. The Fatbeard episode.

http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/225458/?tag=song

Somalia Pirate Song:We drink and we pillage and we do what we please / We get all that we want for free / We’ll kick your ass / And rape your lass / Somalian pirates we / So with a yo ho ho (yo ho ho) / And with a yee hee hee (yee hee hee) / We take to the African sea / We’ll brave the squalls / And bust your balls / Somalian pirates we / We left our homes and we left our mothers / To go on a pillaging spree / We’ll cut off your ears / And break your toes / And make you drink our pee / And if you sail into our waters / You best hear this decree / We’ll take your boat / Set your ass afloat / Somalian pirates we / With a yo ho ho (yo ho ho) / And a tricky lah-tee do (tricky lah-tee do) / We’ll shoot you in the face with glee / Then we’ll cut off your cock / And feed it to a croc / Somalian pirates we / Somalian pirates we / Somalian pirates we!

That British couple that was kidnapped recently might should be used to make a point, "Ransom Of Red Chief" style.
Arturo_Vandelay
Like Ruthless People, with Danny Devito and Bette Midler.
Davis 2.0
QUOTE (Arturo_Vandelay @ Nov 8 2009, 03:30 PM) *
I would say the creation of all that false accusation against Cheney was indeed a phony threat for political advantage.


False? lol.


You are bullshitting us.
inyerface
bsing himself
gtessex
Wouldn't be something.....if the whole Health Care system overhaul proposal 'crashes and burns'....over .....ABORTION!!!!!! ohmy.gif Could Happen!

QUOTE
Anti-abortion Democrats have reignited the national abortion wars with their victory Saturday on an amendment to House health care legislation that would prevent women from obtaining abortions through government-sponsored insurance or any plan that receives government subsidies.

Pro-choice and anti-abortion forces, each promising to mobilize the public, are girding for battle in the Senate, which aims to begin debate soon on its health care bill.

The amendment by Bart Stupak, D-Mich., passed 240 to 194, with backing from 64 Democrats, including Dennis Cardoza and Jim Costa from the Central Valley, and most Republicans. It expands an existing ban, known as the Hyde Amendment, on public funding for abortion.


QUOTE
"Pro-choice supporters in this country are going to be outraged that the anti-choice movement used this important debate over health care to expand anti-choice policies into the private employment sector," said Nancy Northup, president of the Center for Reproductive Rights, which will begin running advertisements next week.

On the other side, Charmaine Yoest, president of the anti-abortion Americans United for Life, promised "a tough fight in the Senate, and we're ready to engage on it."

"The bottom line is that Speaker Pelosi would not have allowed the vote unless she had to, and the reason she had to is that she heard from pro-life Americans all across this country who melted down the phones on the House side," Yoest said.


http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?.../MNQ81AHHRA.DTL

Let's see if I got this straight?????

There is a large division within the Congress over the Public Option...then within the Public Option, there is a sharp division over the Abortion issue. I am still predicting this Health Care system overhaul dies on the vine. IMHO, it was ....STUPID for Congress to address the health care issue in this manner ( a complete overhaul)....absolutely......STUPID!!!!!

Davis 2.0
The health care plan won't make it anyway. Republicans have invested all they are into stopping Obama on this, therefore nuking his whole administration and everything they want to do.


They've already admitted as much.
SpaceCowboy
Now that the only real issue in America has been introduced into he process, I do believe you are correct.
Davis 2.0
It's no mystery. But the so-called 'liberal media' ignores it completely.


If it were Democrats that said something like that they'd replay it 24/7 with the label 'obstructionist' under the offender's picture. By the way, where the fork did that word disappear to?

Apparently, 'obstructionist' only applies to the the Democrats.
gtessex
QUOTE (Davis 2.0 @ Nov 10 2009, 08:34 AM) *
The health care plan won't make it anyway. Republicans have invested all they are into stopping Obama on this, therefore nuking his whole administration and everything they want to do.


They've already admitted as much.



I totally agree with the GOP. The Democrat's approach to Health Care is a POS plan and should be shot down!

I'd rather see the 'status quo' than have this POS made into law.

The purpose of posting the SFgate link...was the observation the Democrats are the ones who will eventually
kill the Health Care bill due to the differences between Democrats on the issues of Abortion and the Public Option.

Senator Lindsay Graham had the best quote of the day by stating "the House bill was written for liberals, by liberals."

.....and there lies the problem!

arebuntz
Democratic Caucus significant majorities in House and Senate including the magic 60 in the Senate. There is a more modest health care reform plan that could pass if the less moderate members of the caucus want it to pass. The Rs have been irrelevant in this since last November.
arebuntz
It seems both major parties see the need to purge all the moderates from their ranks in Congress who prevent them from making progress on their agenda. This MIGHT open the door for a new party (cue the Lou Dobbs theme).
SpaceCowboy
QUOTE (arebuntz @ Nov 10 2009, 10:02 AM) *
It seems both major parties see the need to purge all the moderates from their ranks in Congress who prevent them from making progress on their agenda. This MIGHT open the door for a new party (cue the Lou Dobbs theme).

Maybe a Ross Perot type candidate, but a new party is such a tough row to hoe given the existing duopoly.
Davis 2.0
It'll never happen.
arebuntz
If the major parties purge all moderates it could happen, either that or voter turnout will fall well below 50%.
Arturo_Vandelay
QUOTE (SpaceCowboy @ Nov 10 2009, 08:08 AM) *
Maybe a Ross Perot type candidate, but a new party is such a tough row to hoe given the existing duopoly.


Rich enough to buy the job? Perot wasn't a bad candidate, but his assets were his greatest asset. I'd love to see non-partisan elections. IRV, or anything like it would be worth trying. At the very least on the local level.
Arturo_Vandelay
QUOTE (arebuntz @ Nov 10 2009, 08:24 AM) *
If the major parties purge all moderates it could happen, either that or voter turnout will fall well below 50%.


they know they need moderates, they just don't cater to them early on. It's a matter of timing.
Lord_Proprietor
WashingtonBeat

http://townhall.com/video/WashingtonBeat/1450_110609Bandes
Nomarchy
QUOTE (gtessex @ Nov 10 2009, 06:58 AM) *
Senator Lindsay Graham had the best quote of the day by stating "the House bill was written for liberals, by liberals."

.....and there lies the problem!


That's a bold-faced lie. THERE lies the problem.
inyerface
2,200 Vets Died Last Year Because They Lacked Health Insurance

http://thinkprogress.org/2009/11/10/vets-study-deaths/

“Like other uninsured Americans, most uninsured vets are working people – too poor to afford private coverage but not poor enough to qualify for Medicaid or means-tested VA care”
underhi2p
QUOTE (Nomarchy @ Nov 10 2009, 01:09 PM) *
That's a bold-faced lie. THERE lies the problem.



This is a lie.
underhi2p
QUOTE (inyerface @ Nov 10 2009, 02:19 PM) *
2,200 Vets Died Last Year Because They Lacked Health Insurance

http://thinkprogress.org/2009/11/10/vets-study-deaths/

“Like other uninsured Americans, most uninsured vets are working people – too poor to afford private coverage but not poor enough to qualify for Medicaid or means-tested VA care”



PPHIRL will fix all of this.


Nomarchy
QUOTE (underhi2p @ Nov 10 2009, 11:23 AM) *
This is a lie.


Prove it.

It is a bold-faced lie, a willful lie, to claim that the House bill is legislation made by liberal for liberals.

If that is what liberals really want, then the Pope is for abortion.
Nomarchy
QUOTE (underhi2p @ Nov 10 2009, 11:24 AM) *
PPHIRL will fix all of this.


Pronounced 'Pearl'. You must repeat yourself more to catapult the propaganda.
Repub_Bub
QUOTE (Nomarchy @ Nov 10 2009, 05:01 PM) *
catapult the propaganda.

Great phrase!
underhi2p
QUOTE (Nomarchy @ Nov 10 2009, 07:01 PM) *
Pronounced 'Pearl'. You must repeat yourself more to catapult the propaganda.



I'm leaving that up to Puggs Pelosi, The Baby Jesus Obama, Harry Reid, Bubba Clinton, Innocent, Moveon.org, Democracy for America, Mikey Moore, Georgie Soros and the rest of the whacked-out, left-wing nuts that are promotin' PPHIRL.

underhi2p
QUOTE (Nomarchy @ Nov 10 2009, 07:01 PM) *
Prove it.

It is a bold-faced lie, a willful lie, to claim that the House bill is legislation made by liberal for liberals.

If that is what liberals really want, then the Pope is for abortion.



The proof is in the vote.

Whacked-out, left-wing nuts voted YAY!!

Whacked-out, right-wing nuts voted NAY!

220-215
patheticJT
QUOTE (inyerface @ Nov 10 2009, 08:19 PM) *
2,200 Vets Died Last Year Because They Lacked Health Insurance

http://thinkprogress.org/2009/11/10/vets-study-deaths/

“Like other uninsured Americans, most uninsured vets are working people – too poor to afford private coverage but not poor enough to qualify for Medicaid or means-tested VA care”


It sure is tough to find a liberal out there who wont use dead American Soldiers for political fodder...........

P

A

T

H

E

T

I

C

AS USUAL.
Nomarchy
QUOTE (underhi2p @ Nov 10 2009, 07:54 PM) *
The proof is in the vote.

Whacked-out, left-wing nuts voted YAY!!

Whacked-out, right-wing nuts voted NAY!

220-215


You are a malakas. Through and through. If your dick were a violin you'd be farking Paganini by now. Give it a rest. Play hard to get on yourself. Buy yourself dinner first. Just lay off the farking masturbation.
Repub_Bub

If you don't have the ability to buy insurance, it's not affordable and you want it, you are forcing you and me and everybody else to subsidize you...

Without UHC


you have the ability to buy insurance, it's affordable and you choose not to do so, forcing you and me and everybody else to subsidize you...
With UHC
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2010 Invision Power Services, Inc.