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inyerface
QUOTE
"Israel," he declared, "must be wiped off the map."


"Democrats," LP declared, "must be wiped off the map."
Nomarchy
QUOTE(Brian_Lambchops @ Sep 22 2007, 07:37 PM) [snapback]330370[/snapback]

http://www.iranfocus.com/modules/news/arti...hp?storyid=4158

IRANIAN PRESIDENT Mahmoud Ahmadinejad used words Wednesday that have not been heard from a senior Iranian official in some time. "Israel," he declared, "must be wiped off the map." What's more, "anyone who recognizes Israel will burn in the fire of the Islamic nation's fury." Such murderous threats are not exactly new -- as the president noted, they originated with Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, the leader of Iran's Islamic revolution. But Mr. Ahmadinejad's recent predecessors generally avoided such rhetoric, partly because the goal of eliminating Israel has been disavowed by the Palestinian leadership and partly because Iran sought to improve relations with the West.

These vile words won't necessarily be followed by actions, though Iran possesses missiles that can reach Israel and sponsors terrorists who carry out suicide attacks in its cities. They do, however, send the clearest signal yet that Iran's new government has no intention of seeking accommodation with Europe or the United States, or of accepting a more peaceful Middle East in which Israel lives alongside a democratic Palestinian state.

That's why there was a red-faced flurry of activity in European capitals yesterday; the British, French and German governments all summoned Iranian envoys to protest Mr. Ahmadinejad's speech. While Israel has never doubted the threat from Iran, the three European Union states have invested their prestige and two years of diplomacy in the idea that the Iranian regime would cease steps toward developing nuclear weapons in exchange for Western economic concessions. The Europeans persuaded a reluctant Bush administration to go along with their initiative earlier this year, only to have the talks break down in August, not long after Mr. Ahmadinejad's election. Iran's president then appeared before the U.N. General Assembly to deliver a speech in which, in between ludicrous allegations about the United States, he repeatedly insisted on Iran's intention to proceed with uranium enrichment.

The Europeans still cling to their hopes for negotiations, though last month they finally joined the Bush administration's long-standing -- and equally futile -- attempt to refer Iran's violations of the nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty to the U.N. Security Council. But the crudeness of Mr. Ahmadinejad, and his already evident failure to deliver on his populist promises to raise Iranian living standards, ought to open the way to a different approach. Unlike their president, most young Iranians would like to live in a prosperous and democratic society that enjoys good relations with the West. The West should stand up for that Iran; it can do so by rejecting and isolating the hateful ideologue who would drag the country in the opposite direction.


QUOTE
Does Iran's President Want Israel Wiped Off The Map - Does He Deny The Holocaust?

An analysis of media rhetoric on its way to war against Iran - Commenting on the alleged statements of Iran's President Ahmadinejad .

By Anneliese Fikentscher and Andreas Neumann
Translation to English: Erik Appleby

04/19/06 "Kein Krieg!" -- -- - "But now that I'm on Iran, the threat to Iran, of course -- (applause) -- the threat from Iran is, of course, their stated objective to destroy our strong ally Israel. That's a threat, a serious threat. It's a threat to world peace; it's a threat, in essence, to a strong alliance. I made it clear, I'll make it clear again, that we will use military might to protect our ally, Israel, and -- (applause.)" George W. Bush, US-President, 2006-03-20 in Cleveland (Ohio) in an off-the-cuff speech (source: www.whitehouse.gov) But why does Bush speak of Iran's objective to destroy Israel?

Does Iran's President wants Israel wiped off the map?

To raze Israel to the ground, to batter down, to destroy, to annihilate, to liquidate, to erase Israel, to wipe it off the map - this is what Iran's President demanded - at least this is what we read about or heard of at the end of October 2005. Spreading the news was very effective. This is a declaration of war they said. Obviously government and media were at one with their indignation. It goes around the world.

But let's take a closer look at what Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said. It is a merit of the 'New York Times' that they placed the complete speech at our disposal. Here's an excerpt from the publication dated 2005-10-30:

"They say it is not possible to have a world without the United States and Zionism. But you know that this is a possible goal and slogan. Let's take a step back. [[[We had a hostile regime in this country which was undemocratic, armed to the teeth and, with SAVAK, its security apparatus of SAVAK [the intelligence bureau of the Shah of Iran's government] watched everyone. An environment of terror existed.]]] When our dear Imam [Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, the founder of the Iranian revolution] said that the regime must be removed, many of those who claimed to be politically well-informed said it was not possible. All the corrupt governments were in support of the regime when Imam Khomeini started his movement. [[[All the Western and Eastern countries supported the regime even after the massacre of September 7 [1978] ]]] and said the removal of the regime was not possible. But our people resisted and it is 27 years now that we have survived without a regime dependent on the United States. The tyranny of the East and the West over the world should have to end, but weak people who can see only what lies in front of them cannot believe this. Who would believe that one day we could witness the collapse of the Eastern Empire? But we could watch its fall in our lifetime. And it collapsed in a way that we have to refer to libraries because no trace of it is left. Imam [Khomeini] said Saddam must go and he said he would grow weaker than anyone could imagine. Now you see the man who spoke with such arrogance ten years ago that one would have thought he was immortal, is being tried in his own country in handcuffs and shackles [[[by those who he believed supported him and with whose backing he committed his crimes]]]. Our dear Imam said that the occupying regime must be wiped off the map and this was a very wise statement. We cannot compromise over the issue of Palestine. Is it possible to create a new front in the heart of an old front. This would be a defeat and whoever accepts the legitimacy of this regime [Israel] has in fact, signed the defeat of the Islamic world. Our dear Imam targeted the heart of the world oppressor in his struggle, meaning the occupying regime. I have no doubt that the new wave that has started in Palestine, and we witness it in the Islamic world too, will eliminate this disgraceful stain from the Islamic world."
(source: www.nytimes.com, based on a publication of 'Iranian Students News Agency' (ISNA) -- insertions by the New York Times in squared brackets -- passages in triple squared brackets will be left blank in the MEMRI version printed below)
It's becoming clear. The statements of the Iranian President have been reflected by the media in a manipulated way. Iran's President betokens the removal of the regimes, that are in power in Israel and in the USA, to be possible aim for the future. This is correct. But he never demands the elimination or annihilation of Israel. He reveals that changes are potential. The Shah-Regime being supported by the USA in its own country has been vanquished. The eastern governance of the Soviet Union collapsed. Saddam Hussein's dominion drew to a close. Referring to this he voices his aspiration that changes will also be feasible in Israel respectively in Palestine. He adduces Ayatollah Khomeini referring to the Shah-Regime who in this context said that the regime (meaning the Shah-Regime) should be removed.

Certainly, Ahmadinejad translates this quotation about a change of regime into the occupied Palestine. This has to be legitimate. To long for modified political conditions in a country is a world-wide day-to-day business by all means. But to commute a demand for removal of a 'regime' into a demand for removal of a state is serious deception and dangerous demagogy.

This is one chapter of the war against Iran that has already begun with the words of Georg Meggle, professor of philosophy at the university of Leipzig - namely with the probably most important phase, the phase of propaganda.

Marginally we want to mention that it was the former US Vice-Minister of Defence and current President of the World Bank, Paul D. Wolfowitz, who in Sept. 2001 talked about ending states in public and without any kind of awe. And it was the father of George W. Bush who started the discussion about a winnable nuclear war if only the survival of an elite is assured.

Let's pick an example: the German online-news-magazine tagesschau.de writes the following about Iran's president on 2005-10-27: "There is no doubt: the new wave of assaults in Palestine will erase the stigma in countenance of the Islamic world." Instead of using the original word 'wave' they write 'wave of assaults'. This replacement of the original text is what we call disinformation. E.g. it would be correct to say: "The new movement in Palestine will erase the stain of disgrace from the Islamic world." Additionally this statement refers to the occupation regime mentioned in the previous sentence.

As a precaution we will examine a different translation of the speech - a version prepared by the Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI), located in Washington:

"They [ask]: 'Is it possible for us to witness a world without America and Zionism?' But you had best know that this slogan and this goal are attainable, and surely can be achieved. [[[...]]] "'When the dear Imam [Khomeini] said that [the Shah's] regime must go, and that we demand a world without dependent governments, many people who claimed to have political and other knowledge [asked], 'Is it possible [that the Shah's regime can be toppled]?' That day, when Imam [Khomeini] began his movement, all the powers supported [the Shah's] corrupt regime [[[...]]] and said it was not possible. However, our nation stood firm, and by now we have, for 27 years, been living without a government dependent on America. Imam [Khomeni] said: 'The rule of the East [U.S.S.R.] and of the West [U.S.] should be ended.' But the weak people who saw only the tiny world near them did not believe it. Nobody believed that we would one day witness the collapse of the Eastern Imperialism [i.e. the U.S.S.R], and said it was an iron regime. But in our short lifetime we have witnessed how this regime collapsed in such a way that we must look for it in libraries, and we can find no literature about it. Imam [Khomeini] said that Saddam [Hussein] must go, and that he would be humiliated in a way that was unprecedented. And what do you see today? A man who, 10 years ago, spoke as proudly as if he would live for eternity is today chained by the feet, and is now being tried in his own country [[[...]]] Imam [Khomeini] said: 'This regime that is occupying Qods [Jerusalem] must be eliminated from the pages of history.' This sentence is very wise. The issue of Palestine is not an issue on which we can compromise. Is it possible that an [Islamic] front allows another front [i.e. country] to arise in its [own] heart? This means defeat, and he who accepts the existence of this regime [i.e. Israel] in fact signs the defeat of the Islamic world. In his battle against the World of Arrogance, our dear Imam [Khomeini] set the regime occupying Qods [Jerusalem] as the target of his fight. I do not doubt that the new wave which has begun in our dear Palestine and which today we are also witnessing in the Islamic world is a wave of morality which has spread all over the Islamic world. Very soon, this stain of disgrace [i.e. Israel] will vanish from the center of the Islamic world - and this is attainable."

(source: http://memri.org, based on the publication of 'Iranian Students News Agency' (ISNA) -- insertions by MEMRI in squared brackets -- missing passages compared to the 'New York Times' in triple squared brackets)

The term 'map' to which the media refer at length does not even appear. Whereas the 'New York Times' said: "Our dear Imam said that the occupying regime must be wiped off the map" the version by MEMRI is: "Imam [Khomeini] said: This regime that is occupying Qods [Jerusalem] must be eliminated from the pages of history."

MEMRI added the following prefixed formulation to their translation as a kind of title: "Very Soon, This Stain of Disgrace [i.e. Israel] Will Be Purged From the Center of the Islamic World - and This is Attainable". Thereby they take it out of context by using the insertion 'i.e. Israel' they distort the meaning on purpose. The temporal tapering 'very soon' does not appear in the NY-Times-translation either. Besides it is striking that MEMRI deleted all passages in their translation which characterize the US-supported Shah-Regime as a regime of terror and at the same time show the true character of US-American policy.

An independent translation of the original (like the version published by ISNA) yields that Ahmadinejad does not use the term 'map'. He quotes Ayatollah Khomeini's assertion that the occupation regime must vanish from this world - literally translated: from the arena of times. Correspondingly: there is no space for an occupation regime in this world respectively in this time. The formulation 'wipe off the map' used by the 'New York Times' is a very free and aggravating interpretation which is equivalent to 'razing something to the ground' or 'annihilating something'. The downwelling translation, first into English ('wipe off the map'), then from English to German - and all literally ('von der Landkarte löschen') - makes us stride away from the original more and more. The perfidious thing about this translation is that the expression 'map' can only be used in one (intentional) way: a state can be removed from a map but not a regime, about which Ahmadinejad is actually speaking.

Again following the independent translation: "I have no doubt that the new movement taking place in our dear Palestine is a spiritual movement which is spanning the entire Islamic world and which will soon remove this stain of disgrace from the Islamic world".

It must be allowed to ask how it is possible that 'spirtual movement' resp. 'wave of morality' (as translated by MEMRI) and 'wave of assaults' can be equated and translated (like e.g tagesschau.de published it).

Does Iran's President deny the Holocaust?

"The German government condemned the repetitive offending anti-Israel statements by Ahmadinejad to be shocking. Such behaviour is not tolerable, Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier stated. [...] Federal Chancellor Angela Merkel proclaimed Ahmadinejad's statements to be 'inconceivable'" (published by tagesschau.de 2005-12-14.

But not only the German Foreign Minister Steinmeier and the Federal Chancellor Merkel allege this, but the Bild-Zeitung, tagesschau.de, parts of the peace movement, US-President George W. Bush, the 'Papers for German and international politics', CNN, the Heinrich-Böll-Foundation, almost the entire world does so, too: Iran's President Ahmadinejad denies the Holocaust.

What is this assertion based on? In substance it is based on dispatches of 2 days - 2005-12-14 and 2006-02-11.

"The Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has stepped up his verbal attacks against Israel and the Western states and has denied the Holocaust. Instead of making Israel's attacks against Palestine a subject of discussion 'the Western states devote their energy to the fairy-tale of the massacre against the Jews', Ahmadinejad said on Wednesday in a speech at Zahedan in the south-east of Iran which was broadcasted directly by the news-channel Khabar. That day he stated that if the Western states really believe in the assassination of six million Jews in W.W. II they should put a piece of land in Europe, in the USA, Canada or Alaska at Israel's disposal." - dispatch of the German press agency DPA, 2005-12-14.

The German TV-station n24 spreads the following on 2006-12-14 using the title 'Iran's President calls the Holocaust a myth': "The Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has stepped up his verbal attacks against Israel and called the Holocaust a 'myth' used as a pretext by the Europeans to found a Jewish state in the center of the Islamic world . 'In the name of the Holocaust they have created a myth and regard it to be worthier than God, religion and the prophets' the Iranian head of state said."

The Iranian press agency IRNA renders Ahmadinejad on 2005-12-14 as follows: "'If the Europeans are telling the truth in their claim that they have killed six million Jews in the Holocaust during the World War II - which seems they are right in their claim because they insist on it and arrest and imprison those who oppose it, why the Palestinian nation should pay for the crime. Why have they come to the very heart of the Islamic world and are committing crimes against the dear Palestine using their bombs, rockets, missiles and sanctions.' [...] 'If you have committed the crimes so give a piece of your land somewhere in Europe or America and Canada or Alaska to them to set up their own state there.' [...] Ahmadinejad said some have created a myth on holocaust and hold it even higher than the very belief in religion and prophets [...] The president further said, 'If your civilization consists of aggression, displacing the oppressed nations, suppressing justice-seeking voices and spreading injustice and poverty for the majority of people on the earth, then we say it out loud that we despise your hollow civilization.'"

There again we find the quotation already rendered by n24: "In the name of the Holocaust they created a myth." We can see that this is completely different from what is published by e.g. the DPA - the massacre against the Jews is a fairy-tale. What Ahmadinejad does is not denying the Holocaust. No! It is dealing out criticism against the mendacity of the imperialistic powers who use the Holocaust to muzzle critical voices and to achieve advantages concerning the legitimization of a planned war. This is criticism against the exploitation of the Holocaust.

CNN (2005-12-15) renders as follows: "If you have burned the Jews why don't you give a piece of Europe, the United States, Canada or Alaska to Israel. Our question is, if you have committed this huge crime, why should the innocent nation of Palestine pay for this crime?"

The Washingtonian ''Middle East Media Research Institute' (MEMRI) renders Ahmadinejad's statements from 2005-12-14 as follows: "...we ask you: if you indeed committed this great crime, why should the oppressed people of Palestine be punished for it? * [...] If you committed a crime, you yourselves should pay for it. Our offer was and remains as follows: If you committed a crime, it is only appropriate that you place a piece of your land at their disposal - a piece of Europe, of America, of Canada, or of Alaska - so they can establish their own state. Rest assured that if you do so, the Iranian people will voice no objection."

The MEMRI-rendering uses the relieving translation 'great crime' and misappropriates the following sentence at the * marked passage: "Why have they come to the very heart of the Islamic world and are committing crimes against the dear Palestine using their bombs, rockets, missiles and sanctions." This sentence has obviously been left out deliberately because it would intimate why the Israeli state could have forfeited the right to establish itself in Palestine - videlicet because of its aggressive expansionist policy against the people of Palestine, ignoring any law of nations and disobeying all UN-resolutions.

In spite of the variability referring to the rendering of the statements of Iran's President we should nevertheless note down: the reproach of denying the Holocaust cannot be sustained if Ahmadinejad speaks of a great and huge crime that has been done to the Jews.

In another IRNA-dispatch (2005-12-14) the Arabian author Ghazi Abu Daqa writes about Ahmadinejad: "The Iranian president has nothing against the followers of Judaism [...] Ahmadinejad is against Zionism as well as its expansionist and occupying policy. That is why he managed to declare to the world with courage that there is no place for the Zionist regime in the world civilized community."

It's no wonder that such opinions do not go down particularly well with the ideas of the centers of power in the Western world. But for this reason they are not wrong right away. Dealing out criticism against the aggressive policy of the Western world, to which Israel belongs as well, is not yet anti-Semitism. We should at least to give audience to this kind of criticism - even if it is a problematic field for us.

2006-02-11 Ahmadinejad said according to IRNA: "[...] the real holocaust should be sought in Palestine, where the blood of the oppressed nation is shed every day and Iraq, where the defenceless Muslim people are killed daily. [...] 'Some western governments, in particular the US, approve of the sacrilege on the Prophet Mohammad (PBUH), while denial of the >Myth of Holocaust<, based on which the Zionists have been exerting pressure upon other countries for the past 60 years and kill the innocent Palestinians, is considered as a crime' [...]"

The assertion that Ahmadinejad denies the Holocaust thus is wrong in more than one aspect. He does not deny the Holocaust, but speaks of denial itself. And he does not speak of denial of the Holocaust, but of denial of the Myth of Holocaust. This is something totally different. All in all he speaks of the exploitation of the Holocaust. The Myth of Holocaust, like it is made a subject of discussion by Ahmadinejad, is a myth that has been built up in conjunction with the Holocaust to - as he says - put pressure onto somebody. We might follow this train of thoughts or we might not. But we cannot equalize his thoughts with denial of the Holocaust.

If Ahmadinejad according to this 2006-02-11 condemns the fact that it is forbidden and treated as a crime to do research into the Myth of Holocaust, as we find it quoted in the MEMRI translation, this acquires a meaning much different from the common and wide-spread one. If the myth related to the Holocaust is commuted to a 'Fairy Tale of the Massacre' - like the DPA did - this can only be understood as a malicious misinterpretation.

By the use of misrepresentation and adulteration it apparently succeeded to constitute the statements of the Iranian President to be part and parcel of the currently fought propaganda battle. It is our responsibility to counter this.

Concluding:

A dispatch by Reuters confirms 2006-02-21: "The Iranian Foreign Minister Manuchehr Mottaki has [...] repudiated that his state would want the Jewish state Israel 'wiped off the map'. [...] Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad had been misunderstood. 'Nobody can erase a country from the map.' Ahmadinejad was not thinking of the state of Israel but of their regime [...]. 'We do not accredit this regime to be legitimate.' [...] Mottaki also accepted that the Holocaust really took place in a way that six million Jews were murdered during the era of National Socialism."

The next step is to connect the Iranian President with Hitler. 2006-02-20 the Chairman of the Counsil of Jews in France (Crif) says in Paris: "The Iranian President's assertions do not rank behind Hitler's 'Mein Kampf'". Paul Spiegel, President of the Central Counsil of Jews in Germany, 2005-12-10 in the 'Welt' qualifies the statements of Ahmadinejad to be "the worst comment on this subject that he has ever heard of a statesman since A. Hitler". At the White House the Iranian President is even named Hitler. And the German Federal Chancellor Angela Merkel as well moves over Iran's President towards Hitler and National Socialism by saying 2006-02-04 in Munich: "Already in the early 1930's many people said that it is only rhetoric. One could have prevented a lot in time if one had acted... Germany is in the debt to resist the incipiencies and to do anything to make clear where the limit of tolerance is. Iran remains in control of the situation, it is still in their hands."

All this indicates war. Slobodan Milosevic became Hitler. The result was the war of the Nato against Yugoslavia. Saddam Hussein became Hitler. What followed was the war the USA and their coalition of compliant partners waged against Iraq. Now the Iranian President becomes Hitler.

And someone who is Hitler-like can assure a hundred times that he only wants to use nuclear energy in a peaceful way. Nobody will believe him. Somebody like Hitler can act within the scope of all contracts. Acting contrary to contract will nevertheless be imputed to him. "Virtually none of the Western states recognize that uranium enrichment is absolutely legal. There is no restriction by contract or by the law of nations. Quite the contrary: Actually the Western countries would have the duty to assist Iran with these activities, according to the Non-Proliferation Treaty. As long as a state renounces the bomb it is eligible for technical support by the nuclear powers." (Jörg Pfuhl, ARD radio studio Istanbul 2006-01-11) But - all this does not count if the Head of a state is stigmatized as Hitler.



http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article12790.htm
Nomarchy
QUOTE
August 28, 2006

Is Iran's President Really a Jew-hating, Holocaust-denying Islamo-fascist who has threatened to "wipe Israel off the map"?
Putting Words in Ahmadinejad's Mouth
By VIRGINIA TILLEY

Johannesburg, South Africa

In this frightening mess in the Middle East, let's get one thing straight. Iran is not threatening Israel with destruction. Iran's president has not threatened any action against Israel. Over and over, we hear that Iran is clearly "committed to annihilating Israel" because the "mad" or "reckless" or "hard-line" President Ahmadinejad has repeatedly threatened to destroy Israel But every supposed quote, every supposed instance of his doing so, is wrong.

The most infamous quote, "Israel must be wiped off the map", is the most glaringly wrong. In his October 2005 speech, Mr. Ahmadinejad never used the word "map" or the term "wiped off". According to Farsi-language experts like Juan Cole and even right-wing services like MEMRI, what he actually said was "this regime that is occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time."

What did he mean? In this speech to an annual anti-Zionist conference, Mr. Ahmadinejad was being prophetic, not threatening. He was citing Imam Khomeini, who said this line in the 1980s (a period when Israel was actually selling arms to Iran, so apparently it was not viewed as so ghastly then). Mr. Ahmadinejad had just reminded his audience that the Shah's regime, the Soviet Union, and Saddam Hussein had all seemed enormously powerful and immovable, yet the first two had vanished almost beyond recall and the third now languished in prison. So, too, the "occupying regime" in Jerusalem would someday be gone. His message was, in essence, "This too shall pass."

But what about his other "threats" against Israel? The blathersphere made great hay from his supposed comment later in the same speech, "There is no doubt: the new wave of assaults in Palestine will erase the stigma in [the] countenance of the Islamic world." "Stigma" was interpreted as "Israel" and "wave of assaults" was ominous. But what he actually said was, "I have no doubt that the new movement taking place in our dear Palestine is a wave of morality which is spanning the entire Islamic world and which will soon remove this stain of disgrace from the Islamic world." "Wave of morality" is not "wave of assaults." The preceding sentence had made clear that the "stain of disgrace" was the Muslim world's failure to eliminate the "occupying regime".

For months, scholars like Cole and journalists like the London Guardian's Jonathan Steele have been pointing out these mistranslations while more and more appear: for example, Mr. Ahmadinejad's comments at the Organization of Islamic Countries meeting on August 3, 2006. Radio Free Europe reported that he said "that the 'main cure' for crisis in the Middle East is the elimination of Israel." "Elimination of Israel" implies physical destruction: bombs, strafing, terror, throwing Jews into the sea. Tony Blair denounced the translated statement as ""quite shocking". But Mr. Ahmadinejad never said this. According to al-Jazeera, what he actually said was "The real cure for the conflict is the elimination of the Zionist regime, but there should be an immediate ceasefire first."

Nefarious agendas are evident in consistently translating "eliminating the occupation regime" as "destruction of Israel". "Regime" refers to governance, not populations or cities. "Zionist regime" is the government of Israel and its system of laws, which have annexed Palestinian land and hold millions of Palestinians under military occupation. Many mainstream human rights activists believe that Israel's "regime" must indeed be transformed, although they disagree how. Some hope that Israel can be redeemed by a change of philosophy and government (regime) that would allow a two-state solution. Others believe that Jewish statehood itself is inherently unjust, as it embeds racist principles into state governance, and call for its transformation into a secular democracy (change of regime). None of these ideas about regime change signifies the expulsion of Jews into the sea or the ravaging of their towns and cities. All signify profound political change, necessary to creating a just peace.

Mr. Ahmadinejad made other statements at the Organization of Islamic Countries that clearly indicated his understanding that Israel must be treated within the framework of international law. For instance, he recognized the reality of present borders when he said that "any aggressor should go back to the Lebanese international border". He recognized the authority of Israel and the role of diplomacy in observing, "The circumstances should be prepared for the return of the refugees and displaced people, and prisoners should be exchanged." He also called for a boycott: "We also propose that the Islamic nations immediately cut all their overt and covert political and economic relations with the Zionist regime." A double bushel of major Jewish peace groups, US church groups, and hordes of human rights organizations have said the same things.

A final word is due about Mr. Ahmadinejad's "Holocaust denial". Holocaust denial is a very sensitive issue in the West, where it notoriously serves anti-Semitism. Elsewhere in the world, however, fogginess about the Holocaust traces more to a sheer lack of information. One might think there is plenty of information about the Holocaust worldwide, but this is a mistake. (Lest we be snooty, Americans show the same startling insularity from general knowledge when, for example, they live to late adulthood still not grasping that US forces killed at least two million Vietnamese and believing that anyone who says so is anti-American. Most French people have not yet accepted that their army slaughtered a million Arabs in Algeria.)

Skepticism about the Holocaust narrative has started to take hold in the Middle East not because people hate Jews but because that narrative is deployed to argue that Israel has a right to "defend itself" by attacking every country in its vicinity. Middle East publics are so used to western canards legitimizing colonial or imperial takeovers that some wonder if the six-million-dead argument is just another myth or exaggerated tale. It is dismal that Mr. Ahmadinejad seems to belong to this sector.

Still, Mr. Ahmadinejad did not say what the US Subcommittee on Intelligence Policy reported that he said: "They have invented a myth that Jews were massacred and place this above God, religions and the prophets." He actually said, "In the name of the Holocaust they have created a myth and regard it to be worthier than God, religion and the prophets." This language targets the myth of the Holocaust, not the Holocaust itself - i.e., "myth" as "mystique", or what has been done with the Holocaust. Other writers, including important Jewish theologians, have criticized the "cult" or "ghost" of the Holocaust without denying that it happened. In any case, Mr. Ahmadinejad's main message has been that, if the Holocaust happened as Europe says it did, then Europe, and not the Muslim world, is responsible for it.

Why is Mr. Ahmadinejad being so systematically misquoted and demonized? Need we ask? If the world believes that Iran is preparing to attack Israel, then the US or Israel can claim justification in attacking Iran first. On that agenda, the disinformation campaign about Mr. Ahmadinejad's statements has been bonded at the hip to a second set of lies: promoting Iran's (nonexistent) nuclear weapon programme.

The current fuss about Iran's nuclear enrichment program is playing out so identically to US canards about Iraq's WMD that we must wonder why it is not meeting only roaring international derision. With multiple agendas regarding Iran -- oil, US hegemony, Israel, neocon fantasies of a "new Middle East" -- the Bush administration has raised a great international scare about Iran's nuclear enrichment program. (See Ray Close, Why Bush Will Choose War Against Iran.) But, plowing through Iran's facilities and records, International Atomic Energy Agency inspectors have found no evidence of a weapons program. The US intelligence community hasn't found anything, either.

All experts concur that, even if Iran has such a program, it is five to ten years away from having the enriched uranium necessary for an actual weapon, so pre-emptive military action now is hardly necessary. Even the recent report by the Republican-dominated Subcommittee on Intelligence Policy, which pointed out that the US government lacks the intelligence on Iran's weapons program necessary to thwart it, effectively confirms that the supposed "intelligence" is patchy and inadequate.

The Bush administration's casual neglect of North Korea's nuclear program indicates that nuclear weapons are not, in fact, the issue here. The neocons are intent on changing the regime in Iran and so have deployed their propagandists to promote the "nuclear weapons" scare just they promoted the Iraqi WMD scare. Republican rhetoric and right-wing news commentators have fallen into line, obediently repeating baseless assertions that Iran has a "nuclear weapons program," is threatening the world and especially Israel with its "nuclear weapons program," and must not be allowed to complete its "nuclear weapons program." Those who nervously point out that hard evidence is actually lacking about any Iranian "nuclear weapons program" are derided as naïve and spineless patsies.

Worse, the Bush administration has brought this snow-job to the UN, wrangling the Security Council into passing a resolution (SC 1696) demanding that Iran cease nuclear enrichment by August 31 and warning of sanctions if it doesn't. Combined with its abysmal performance regarding Israel's assault on Lebanon, the Security Council has crumbled into humiliating obsequious incompetence on this one.

Like all phantasms, the nuclear-weapons charge is hard to defeat because it cannot be entirely disproved. Maybe some Iranian scientists, in some remote underground facility, are working on nuclear weapons technology. Maybe feelers to North Korea have explored the possibilities of getting extra components. Maybe an alien spaceship once crashed in the Nevada desert. Normally, just because something can't be disproved does not make it true. But in the neocon world, possibilities are realities, and a craven press is there to click its heels and trumpet the scaremongering headlines. It doesn't take much, through endless repetition of the term "possible nuclear weapons program," for the word "possible" to drop quietly away.

Evidence is, in any case, a mere detail to the Bush administration, for which the desire for nuclear weapons is sufficient cause for a pre-emptive attack. In US debates prior to invading Iraq, people sometimes insisted that any real evidence of WMD was sorely lacking. The White House would then insist that, because Saddam Hussein "wanted" such weapons, he was likely to have them sometime in the future. Hence thought crimes, even imaginary thought crimes, are now punishable by military invasion.

Will the US really attack Iran? US generals are rightly alarmed that bombing Iran's nuclear facilities would unleash unprecedented attacks on US occupation forces in Iraq, as well as US bases in the Gulf. Iran could even block the Straits of Hormuz, which carries 40 percent of the world's oil. Spin-off terrorist militancy would skyrocket. The potential damage to international security and the world economy would be unfathomably dangerous. The Bush administration's necons seems capable of any insanity, so none of this may matter to them. But even the neocons must be taking pause since Israel failed to knock out Hizbullah using the same onslaught from the air planned for Iran.

But Israel can attack Iran, and this may be the plan. Teaming up, the two countries could compensate for each other's strategic limitations. The US has been contributing its superpower clout in the Security Council, setting the stage for sanctions, knowing Iran will not yield on its enrichment program. Having cultivated a (mistaken) international belief that Iran is threatening a direct attack on Israel, the Israeli government could then claim the right of self-defense in taking unilateral pre-emptive action to destroy the nuclear capacity of a state declared in breach of UN directives. Direct retaliation by Iran against Israel is impossible because Israel is a nuclear power (and Iran is not) and because the US security umbrella would protect Israel. Regional reaction against US targets might be curtailed by the (scant) confusion about indirect US complicity.

In that case, what we are seeing now is the US creating the international security context for Israel's unilateral strike and preparing to cover Israel's back in the aftermath.

Is this really the plan? Some evidence suggests that it is on the table. In recent years, Israel has purchased new "bunker-busting" missiles, a fleet of F-16 jets, and three latest-technology German Dolphin submarines (and ordered two more)- i.e., the appropriate weaponry for striking Iran's nuclear installations. In March 2005, the Times of London reported that Israel had constructed a mock-up of Iran's Natanz facility in the desert and was conducting practice bombing runs. In recent months, Israeli officials have openly stated that if the UN fails to take action, Israel will bomb Iran.

But Hizbullah, Iran's ally, still threatens Israel's flank. Hence attacking Hizbullah was more than a "demo" for attacking Iran, as Seymour Hersh reported; it was necessary to attacking Iran. Israel failed to crush Hizbullah, but the outcome may be better for Israel now that Security Council Resolution 1701 has made the entire international community responsible for disarming Hizbullah. If the US-sponsored 1701 effort succeeds, the attack on Iran is a go.

As Israel and the US try to make that deeply flawed plan work, we will doubtless continue to read in every forum that Iran's president - a hostile, irrational, Jew-hating, Holocaust-denying Islamo-fascist who has threatened to "wipe Israel off the map" -- is demonstrably irrational enough to commit national suicide by launching a (nonexistent) nuclear weapon against Israel's mighty nuclear arsenal. The message is being hammered home: against this media-created myth, Israel must truly "defend itself."

Virginia Tilley is a professor of political science, a US citizen working in South Africa, and author of The One-State Solution: A Breakthrough for Peace in the Israeli-Palestinian Deadlock (University of Michigan Press and Manchester University Press, 2005). She can be reached at tilley@hws.edu.



http://www.counterpunch.org/tilley08282006.html
Lord_Proprietor
IPB Image

Jeff Koterba - 9/21/07
Davis 2.0
QUOTE
Why is Mr. Ahmadinejad being so systematically misquoted and demonized?



dry.gif
inyerface


insert bush face into the LP wreath post

the most thankful one of all
Davis 2.0
He has used those people who died as an ad campaign for politics. Few have profited off 9/11 like his allies.
Bee
QUOTE
War On Iran Update

23 Sep 2007 09:53 am

Bill Kristol knows that the current strategy in Iraq will not work as it was designed to do. He's not crazy. The chances of national reconciliation in Iraq have gone backward, not forward, this past year, and the U.S.'s empowerment of anti-Shiite propaganda in Anbar will only isolate Maliki further. The best that can happen is an indefinite occupation of a dismembered Iraq to slow down genocide and make ethnic cleansing more orderly. But even that is a very risky proposition. And the events of last week mean that the Republican party now owns the Iraq occupation more exclusively and deeply than they ever had - and indeed intend to maintain it for another decade.

So what to do? Remember that Kristol's loyalty to the Republicans often trumps national security. How else to explain his support for the GOP last November, even though a Republican victory would have prevented the surge in the first place and kept Rumsfeld in the Pentagon? One option: Change the subject by launching wars against Syria and Iran, and so polarize the country that the choice is framed as: MoveOn or America? That's much better than having, you know, an actual debate about the merits of the war in Iraq and the war against Islamist terror. On that, Republicans lose. If the war is far wider and more terrifying, if the enemies can be multiplied and amplified, then the dynamic plays to the advantage of the GOP. It's for us or against us again.

Remember it doesn't matter to the current Bush Republicans if they cannot persuade a majority of thie necessity of extending the war to Iran and Syria. They have dropped attempting to persuade a majority on the war. They are concerned only with shoring up their own party, which can enable them to launch new wars before the current presidency ends. Hence the two-pronged agenda for the next few months:

QUOTE
Bush needs to prevent others in his own administration--generals (and some civilian leaders) who have given up on the war, or who are jealous of Petraeus, or both--from undermining Petraeus's efforts and Bush's strategy in various subtle ways, which, judging from reports from within the Pentagon, is not a trivial danger. And second, Bush needs to succeed in preventing Iran and Syria from subverting our successes in Iraq. They cannot be allowed to serve as safe havens for the training and transporting of enemy fighters, or as providers of advanced weapons used against our soldiers in Iraq.


I'm not sure what the first thing means unless a purge of any voices within the administration wanting to save what's left of military preparedness under the strain of the Iraq deployments. Gates and Fallon have been warned. But the second is obvious. They're trying to prepare their base for new wars, under the guise of winning the current one. This is the game-plan for keeping power.

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_...th-up.html#more


Sullivan says yes.
SRX
QUOTE(Davis 2.0 @ Sep 23 2007, 06:32 AM) [snapback]330413[/snapback]

Why is Mr. Ahmadinejad being so systematically misquoted and demonized?



dry.gif



Leave little Adolph alone!!!

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Bart Katz
QUOTE(SRX @ Sep 23 2007, 10:42 AM) [snapback]330429[/snapback]

Leave little Adolph alone!!!

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IPB Image
Davis 2.0
Misinformation and misquotes. I think it's strange.
SRX
Ahmadinejihad is always mouthing off about the great satan America or the Zionists. Being infidels he has no reason to do anything but kill them whenever he gets a chance.
Bart Katz
IPB Image
Lord_Proprietor
This is worth reading if you did not watch
the democrat debate (sic), or even if you did
and especially for Hunin because it's mostly
of Tim Russett and Mrs. Clinton in dialog
about Nuclear weapons, protecting the USA
and the and Syria and Israel conflict, + other
items during the last week or so.



Mrs. Clinton: Blame America First

September 27, 2007

Listen To It! WMP | RealPlayer [/i]


BEGIN TRANSCRIPT


RUSH: We got two sound bites here, and you must hear them. This is Tim Russert and Hillary Clinton. Russert says, "Senator Clinton, I want to propose a hypothetical to you. We got the number three man of Al-Qaeda. We know there's a bomb about to go off. We have three days. We know this guy knows where it is. Should there be a presidential exception to allow torture in that kind of situation?" Now, he reads her a quote from a guest on Meet the Press who says, "Yes, the president should ask for an exception on this," and by virtue of executive order in an emergency situation -- the ticking time bomb scenario. Russert's guest said, yes, the president should have that kind of authority. Here's Mrs. Clinton's answer to the question, "Should there be a presidential exception to allow torture in that kind of situation?"

HILLARY: As a matter of policy, it cannot be American policy, period. In addition to the values that are so important for our country to exhibit, is that there is very little evidence that it works. But these hypotheticals are very dangerous because they open a great big hole in what should be an attitude that our country and our president takes toward the appropriate treatment of everyone, and I think it's dangerous to go down this path.

RUSSERT: The guest who laid out this scenario for me with that proposed solution was William Jefferson Clinton last year. So he disagreed with you.

HILLARY: Well, he's not standing here right now. (laughing/applause)

RUSSERT: So there is a disagreement?

HILLARY: Well, I'll talk to him later. (laughter)

RUSH: Ooooh. Ha. Now, I was stunned. You don't see Democrats set up like this in these debates. You don't see Democrats tricked like this. It was a setup. It was a clever setup. You can say it's a gotcha. This is the exact kind of things they do with Republicans, but this doesn't happen when Democrats are in the midst of a debate. Tim Russert -- no, I'm going to ruin his reputation if I applaud him. I'll say no more about it than I have, but you could call it a setup, tough question, like Dan Rather, CBS News, tough questions. But do you, folks, know the ice and the daggers? I hope Russert got out of there with his testicles not in her lockbox because they've been in there for awhile, but obviously he got them out of there. I did a double-take. "Well, the person that told me this is your husband, William Jefferson Clinton. So you disagree with him?" "He's not standing here right now. And if he were..." ha-ha, that's where my mind went, what would happen to him. "Well, I'll talk to him later." Next, this is a battle that Russert and Hillary had. Not going to set it up. Just listen.

RUSSERT: Senator Clinton, in 1981, the Israelis took out a nuclear reactor in Iraq. On September 6th, to the best of our information, Israel attacked Syria because there was suspicion that perhaps North Korea had put some nuclear materials in Syria. If Israel concluded that Iran's nuclear capability threatened Israel's security, would Israel be justified in launching an attack on Iran?

HILLARY: Tim, I think that's one of those hypotheticals that --

RUSSERT: It is not a hypothetical, Senator. It's real life.

HILLARY: That is better not addressed at this time. What is real life is what apparently happened in Syria. So let's take that one step at a time.

RUSSERT: But my question --

HILLARY: I know what the question is, but I think it's important to lay out what we know --

RUSSERT: Israel -- my question is --


HILLARY: -- we don't have as much information as I wish we did, but what we think we know is that, with North Korean help, both financial, technical, and material, the Syrians apparently were putting together, and perhaps over some period of years, a nuclear facility. And the Israelis took it out. I strongly support that. We don't have any more information than what I have just described. It is highly classified; it is not being shared. But I don't want to go a step further and talk about what might or might not happen down the road with Iran. But I think it is fair to say what happened in Syria, so far as we know, I support.

RUSSERT: My question is, would the Israelis be justified if they felt their security was being threatened by the presence of a nuclear presence in Iran, and they decided to take military action, would they be justified?

HILLARY: Well, Tim, I'm not going to answer that because what I understand is there was evidence. (laughter) Let me just finish and then Mike and Dennis can answer. But there was evidence of a North Korean freighter coming in with supplies, there was intelligence and other kinds of verification. So I don't think it's a question of if they feel it. That is a much higher standard of proof. Apparently, it was met with respect to Syria.

RUSSERT: You will all be running against a Republican opponent, perhaps Rudy Giuliani. This is what he said. "Iran is not going to be allowed to build a nuclear power. If they get to a point where they're going to become a nuclear power, we'll prevent them, we will set them back eight to ten years. That is not said as a threat. That should be said as a promise." Would you make a promise as a potential commander-in-chief that you will not allow Iran to become a nuclear power, and will use any means to stop it?

HILLARY: Well, what I have said is that I will do everything I can to prevent Iran from becoming a nuclear power, including the use of diplomacy, the use of economic sanctions, opening up direct talks. We haven't even tried. That's what is so discouraging about this, so then you have the Republican candidates on the other side jumping to the kind of statements that you just read to us. We need a concerted, comprehensive strategy to deal with Iran. We haven't had it. We need it, and I will provide it.

RUSH: What's the lesson to be learned from this sound bite? Who did Mrs. Clinton just blame for Iran's nuclear ideas and expansion? She blamed us, she blamed the United States. This is the blame-America-first crowd, folks, and they haven't ever gone away. They have just resurfaced. She wouldn't answer a direct question about anything. This business about Syria, by the way, I mentioned this yesterday. This is more important than anybody knows. For all this fawning media attention that Ahmadinejad got here, he and Bashar Assad are quaking in their boots as are those mullahs, because the Israelis flew deep into Syria to make this attack, and the Syrians didn't know it had happened until afterwards. They never knew that the Israelis were coming.

What's interesting about this is they've got state-of-the-art detection systems installed by the Russians, and they failed. They utterly, totally failed. The Iranians probably have the same detection installations from Russia. The Israelis were able to get deep in there. This is not just a little penetration just over the border. They went deep, and the Syrians never knew anything about it until the Israeli bombs went off. Now, this is important because this is another great question that she wouldn't answer, and, finally, when she got down to what she really wanted to say about it, it's the fault of the United States of America. Blame America first. "We haven't even tried to solve the Iranian crisis," that we created, she didn't say, but meant. Frankly, I'm getting fed up with blaming America from these people every damn day.

(Playing of We Hate the USA.)




RUSH: Why couldn't Mrs. Clinton just say yes to the question? "Israel has a right to defend itself." Why couldn't she just say it? I raised this earlier. We don't want to elect a "navigator-in-chief." We want to elect a leader, and these Democrats are not being honest and upfront with us about what they would do in certain situations. This is not confirmation hearings for a Supreme Court justice where you can't talk about the cases that you're going to face. This is president of the United States. We are a great nation, at risk in a dangerous world. We're about to elect somebody new to lead us. It's entirely within our rights to know how this person views the defense of this country. Mrs. Clinton refuses to tell us. She insists on blaming us for these problems such as in, "We haven't even talked to the Iranians directly yet!" By the way , [i]wasn't it Mrs. Clinton who tried to make a mockery of Barack Obama for saying that we should? When Obama said, "Hell, I'd talk to them directly, and I'd talk to Chavez," wasn't it Mrs. Clinton that went out there and made a fool out of him, as though that was a very un-presidential thing to say? What did she say last night? The same thing Obama has been saying.



"Well, we haven't even had direct talks yet. We haven't even done it." It's our fault. It's a legitimate question, and Israel has the right to defend itself if threatened by Iran with nukes. See, this is really not about whatever circumstances Bush leaves for Mrs. Clinton to inherit in '09 if she wins the presidency. This is about her unwillingness to tell the public the truth about where she would go as president and what she would do -- and, by the way, this business we haven't tried to talk to Iran? Hell's bells, folks! Europe has. The UN has put in place some weak sanctions. Ahmadinejad said the other day that he's going to ignore the Security Council and whatever they tell him to do on his uranium enrichment project. Iran is killing US soldiers. They are threatening to destroy Israel. They are out there saying (terrorist impression), "Death to America!" Why can't she say, "We can't allow Iran to get nukes," period? "Israel should defend itself if threatened." Why can't she say that? Why is she afraid of saying it? It's too black and white? She wants to be nuanced? I'll tell you why. It's because she wants to have wiggle room to get out of anything, and she can't if she makes a firm statement on something. She doesn't want to have to stake anything.

This woman wants to be elected president with nobody knowing anything about her. She flip-flops. By the way, do you know, ladies and gentlemen, that back last year, 2006, the New York Daily News -- almost a year ago, October 16th -- had a story? Hillary Clinton did allow torture in a ticking time bomb scenario in a New York Daily News interview: "The ticking time bomb scenario represents a narrow exception to her opposition to torture as morale wrong, ineffective, and dangerous to American soldiers." Quote: "In the event we were ever confronted with having to interrogate a detainee with knowledge of an imminent threat to millions of Americans, then the decision to depart from standard international practices must be made by the president. The president must be held accountable. That very, very narrow exception within very, very limited circumstances is better than blasting a big hole in our entire law."

"In yesterday's Daily News editorial board meeting, it emerged she's not actually against torture in all instances and that her dispute with McCain and Bush is largely procedural. Asked about the ticking time bomb scenario..." This is October 12th of 2006, four days before the previous story. Yeah, she basically came out in favor, in an editorial board interview with the New York Daily News, came out in favor of the ticking time bomb scenario for torture. Last night, no way. "No way, Tim! it's a hypothetical. I'm not going to deal with it."

Your husband says it.

"Well, he's not standing here."

This woman is all over the board depending on who she thinks will want to hear what at that particular moment -- and that's the best definition of "dishonest" I can give you.
Lord_Proprietor
Iran building new nuke site, says opposition group

Agence France-Presse, by Staff


9/27/2007 6:29:35 PM
ly
Paris - Iran was building a new bomb-proof underground site for developing nuclear weapons, linked by tunnel to an existing complex at Natanz, the main Iranian opposition group said. ''Information we have from inside the regime indicates that the site is destined for military nuclear activity, mainly for the further enrichment of uranium,'' Mehdi Abrichamtchi, of the National Council of Resistance of Iran (NCRI), told a news conference in Paris.
inyerface


Lord_Proprietor
kozy's Seismic Shift Has Given New Life To Bush's Mideast Policy

By CHARLES KRAUTHAMMER | Posted Thursday, September 27, 2007 4:30 PM PT


Ahmadinejad at Columbia provided the entertainment, but Sarkozy at the U.N. provided the substance. On the largest possible stage — the U.N. General Assembly — President Nicolas Sarkozy put Iran on notice.



His predecessor, Jacques Chirac, had said that France could live with an Iranian nuclear bomb. Sarkozy said that France cannot. He declared Iran's nuclear ambitions "an unacceptable risk to stability in the region and in the world."

His foreign minister, Bernard Kouchner, had earlier said that the world faces two choices — successful diplomacy to stop Iran's nuclear program or war. And Sarkozy himself has no great hopes for the Security Council, where China and Russia are blocking any effective action against Iran. He does hope to get the European Union to join the U.S. in imposing serious sanctions.

"Weakness and renunciation do not lead to peace," he warned. "They lead to war." This warning about appeasement was intended particularly for Germany, which for commercial reasons has been resisting U.S. pressure to support effective sanctions.


Sarkozy is no American lap dog. Like every Fifth Republic president, he begins with the notion of French exceptionalism. But whereas traditional Gaullism tended to define French grandeur as establishing a counterweight to American power, Sarkozy is not adverse to seeing French assertiveness exercised in conjunction with the United States.

As Kouchner put it, "permanent anti-Americanism" is "a tradition we are working to overcome."

This French about-face creates a crucial shift in the balance of forces within Europe. The Eastern Europeans are naturally pro-American for reasons of history (fresh memories of America's role in defeating their Soviet occupiers) and geography (physical proximity to a newly revived and aggressive Russia).

Western Europe is intrinsically wary of American power and culturally anti-American by reflex. France's change from Chirac to Sarkozy, from Foreign Minister Dominique de Villepin (who actively lobbied Third World countries to oppose America on Iraq) to Kouchner (who supported the U.S. invasion on humanitarian grounds) represents an enormous shift in Old Europe's relationship to the U.S.

Britain is a natural ally. Germany, given its history, is more follower than leader. France can define European policy, and Sarkozy intends to.

The French flip is only one part of the changing landscape that has given new life to Bush's Iran and Iraq policies in the waning months of his administration. The mood in Congress also has significantly shifted.

Just this week, the House overwhelmingly passed a resolution calling for very strong sanctions on Iran and urging the administration to designate Iran's Revolutionary Guards a terrorist entity.

A similar measure passed the Senate on Wednesday by 76-22, declaring that it is "a critical national interest of the United States" to prevent Iran from using Shiite militias inside Iraq to subvert the U.S.-backed government in Baghdad.

A few months ago, the question was: Will the Democratic Congress force a withdrawal from Iraq? Today the question in Congress is: What can be done to achieve success in Iraq — most specifically, by countering Iran, which is intent on seeing us fail?

This change in mood and subject is entirely the result of changes on the ground. It takes time for reality to seep into a Washington debate. But after the Petraeus-Crocker testimony, the reality of the relative success of our new counterinsurgency strategy — and the renewed possibility of ultimate success in Iraq — became no longer deniable.

And that reality is reflected even in the rhetoric of Hillary Clinton, the most politically sophisticated of the Democratic presidential candidates. She does vote against war funding in order to alter the president's policy (and to appease the left), but that is as a senator.

When asked what she would do as president, she carefully hedges. She says that it would depend on the situation on the ground at the time. For example, whether our alliance with the Sunni tribes will have succeeded in defeating al-Qaida in Iraq. But when asked by ABC News if she would bring U.S. troops home by January 2013, she refused to "get into hypotheticals and make pledges."

Bush's presidency — and foreign policy — were pronounced dead on the morning after the 2006 election. Not so. France is going to join us in a last-ditch effort to find a nonmilitary solution to the Iranian issue. And on Iraq, the relative success of the surge has won President Bush the leeway to continue the Petraeus counterinsurgency strategy to the end of his term.

Congress, and realistic Democrats, are finally beginning to think seriously about making that strategy succeed and planning for what comes after.

© 2007 Washington Post Writers Group
Davis 2.0
Krauthammer is a god damned idiot and a fool. Not ot mention he has been wrong about almost every facet of Bush's foreign policy.
SpaceCowboy
QUOTE(Lord_Proprietor @ Sep 28 2007, 09:18 AM) *
kozy's Seismic Shift Has Given New Life To Bush's Mideast Policy

By CHARLES KRAUTHAMMER | Posted Thursday, September 27, 2007 4:30 PM PT
Ahmadinejad at Columbia provided the entertainment, but Sarkozy at the U.N. provided the substance. On the largest possible stage — the U.N. General Assembly — President Nicolas Sarkozy put Iran on notice.

His predecessor, Jacques Chirac, had said that France could live with an Iranian nuclear bomb. Sarkozy said that France cannot. He declared Iran's nuclear ambitions "an unacceptable risk to stability in the region and in the world."

His foreign minister, Bernard Kouchner, had earlier said that the world faces two choices — successful diplomacy to stop Iran's nuclear program or war. And Sarkozy himself has no great hopes for the Security Council, where China and Russia are blocking any effective action against Iran. He does hope to get the European Union to join the U.S. in imposing serious sanctions.

"Weakness and renunciation do not lead to peace," he warned. "They lead to war." This warning about appeasement was intended particularly for Germany, which for commercial reasons has been resisting U.S. pressure to support effective sanctions.

I'm delighted to see Sarkozy move Frrance to a harder line against Iran's nuclear ambitions. It can only help.

BTW, this is one of the reasons that we should be a bit more circumspect in our France bashing when they do not agree.
Lord_Proprietor
QUOTE(SpaceCowboy @ Sep 28 2007, 02:50 PM) *
I'm delighted to see Sarkozy move Frrance to a harder line against Iran's nuclear ambitions. It can only help.

BTW, this is one of the reasons that we should be a bit more circumspect in our France bashing when they do not agree.



Hopefully the solid French Patriots, the industrial, agricultrual and tourist base businesses, will come forth now and help him put the little socialists 'profiteurs', freeloaders, back to work and France will become a moving force in Europe again!
patheticJT
QUOTE(Davis 2.0 @ Sep 23 2007, 04:19 PM) *
Misinformation and misquotes. I think it's strange.


Its always hard to imagine anyone else using the tactics that leftys use on a post by post basis. blink.gif blink.gif
fredzbig
QUOTE(Bee @ Sep 22 2007, 06:38 AM) *
Like Lebanon? Let's fast forward to 2005, shall we?
You know, this "cold war mentality" that seems to permeate the right, isn't WORKING. This isn't farging 1970. The world has moved on since then, and is changing as we post. The best way to conquer terrorism is to assimilate the terrorists into the mainstream political systems. Which is what is happening with Syria. Ignore that all you like.

Yeah, Damascus has a lot more to lose in an all out war than Afghanistan, or even Iraq does. Do you think that MIGHT have something to do with their actions of late? They've sure done more cooperating with the international community then we have lately. That is hardly insignificant.

Provoking them because of past behavior seems, in a word, idiotic. It's precisely the lack of creative thinking and an inability to deal effectively with changing positions (in which the military and the right is so lacking) that has us mired into this fiasco.

I'll stick with a less archaic worldview. But hey, thanks for the lesson in staid thinking.



Bee, hunny...Honey Bee??...sorry! Their "behavior" has remained pretty much unchanged for 2000 years other than the fact that their weapons of choice are much more efficient than "back in the day." The worl really would be better off without them here...REALLY!
Nomarchy
QUOTE(fredzbig @ Sep 28 2007, 09:50 PM) *
Bee, hunny...Honey Bee??...sorry! Their "behavior" has remained pretty much unchanged for 2000 years other than the fact that their weapons of choice are much more efficient than "back in the day." The worl really would be better off without them here...REALLY!


In the interest of reciprocity, by the same token, it would certainly be better off without you and any and all folks who share even a bit of your genes and/or culture. How do you like them apples?
Davis 2.0
smile.gif
Lord_Proprietor
.......As witness this last week. Lee Bollinger, the president of Columbia University, was evidently taken aback by the criticism he got for inviting Ahmadinejad and so found himself backed into what, for a conventional soft-leftie of academe, was a ferocious denunciation of his star guest, dwelling at length on Iran's persecution of minorities, murder of dissidents, sponsorship of terrorism, nuclear ambitions, genocidal threats toward Israel, etc. For a warmup act, Bollinger pretty much frosted up the joint. The Iranian leader sat through the intro with a plastic smile, and then said: "I shall not begin by being affected by this unfriendly treatment." He offered many illuminating insights: There are, he declared, no homosexuals in Iran. Not one. Where are they? On a weekend visit to Kandahar to see the new production of "Mame"? Alas, there was no time for follow-up questions.

And afterwards Bollinger got raves even from the right for "speaking truth to power." But so what? It's like Noel Coward delivering a series of devastating put-downs to Hitler. The Fuhrer's mad as hell but at the end of the afternoon he goes back to killing, and dear Noel goes back to singing "The Stately Homes Of England." Ahmadinejad goes back to doing – to persecuting, to murdering, to terrorizing, to nuclearizing – and Bollinger cuts out his press clippings and puts them on the fridge...........
Valdron
QUOTE(Lord_Proprietor @ Sep 30 2007, 01:54 AM) *
.......As witness this last week. Lee Bollinger, the president of Columbia University, .... got raves even from the right for "speaking truth to power."


No offence, but seriously, who cares. This is just typical Americana. Trash talk and nothing but. Teddy Roosevelt said 'talk softly and carry a big stick.' He's been rolling over in his grave since Reagan, because Saint Ronnie dumped it in favour of 'make a big noise and squeeze a little poopy.'
Thank god FDR was into actually doing stuff instead of just talking crap, or America would still be in the depression, and Hitler would still be running Europe.

Bollinger didn't do nothing but put the modern American character front and center, and that's old news these days.
Arturo_Vandelay
We better get both hands back on the stick or we'll wind up as lame as Canada.
SpaceCowboy
"You'd better straighten up and fly right" was one of the admonishments my mom used on us when we were kids.

I think it's "You'd better get your act together" since then.
Nomarchy
In the short run, FDR and his policies had important but largely symbolic and 'morale boosting' and 'psychology massaging' positive effects on the U.S. getting out of the Depression.
Arturo_Vandelay
I didn't even bother with all the things FDR did to get us into the war as soon as possible or how little success he had getting us out of the depression.
Lord_Proprietor

Bolton: Attack Iran, 'remove' its leader



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
JPost.com Staff , THE JERUSALEM POST Sep. 30, 2007

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Former US ambassador to the United Nations John Bolton told Tory delegates in Britain Sunday that efforts by the UK and the EU to negotiate with Iran had failed and that he saw no alternative to a pre-emptive strike on suspected nuclear facilities in the country.

Bolton said that Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was "pushing out" and "is not receiving adequate push-back" from the West.

"I don't think the use of military force is an attractive option, but I would tell you I don't know what the alternative is."

"Because life is about choices, I think we have to consider the use of military force. I think we have to look at a limited strike against their nuclear facilities."

He added that any strike should be followed by an attempt to remove the "source of the problem", Ahmadinejad.

"If we were to strike Iran it should be accompanied by an effort at regime change ... The US once had the capability to engineer the clandestine overthrow of governments. I wish we could get it back," he said.

Bolton said that the fact that only partial intelligence about Iran's nuclear activity existed should not be used as an excuse not to act.

"Intelligence can be wrong in more than one direction... Responding after they (nuclear devices) are used is unacceptable."
Bolton also said the UN was "fundamentally irrelevant".

The former envoy criticized Britain's "softly softly" approach to Iran's imprisonment of 15 British sailors in April.

They were released after Ahmadinejad announced he was making a "gift" to the British people. "They [Iran] got no response from the UK or the US. If you were the Iranian leader, what conclusion do you draw?"



QUOTE
Comments: wink.gif

59. John Bolton is dead right and speaks the truth and not spins. he is honest and not liked by the ostriches who thinks the problem would go away

36. Bolton should be considered for a top post in coming Guliani or Thompson administration. Someone in touch with reality and what must be done.
SpaceCowboy
Here's Hersh's latest piece on developments with Iran.

One never can be sure of his sources, or whether they may be leaking for effect. Like other reporters, I suppose.


QUOTE
Shifting Targets
The Administration’s plan for Iran.
by Seymour M. Hersh October 8, 2007

In a series of public statements in recent months, President Bush and members of his Administration have redefined the war in Iraq, to an increasing degree, as a strategic battle between the United States and Iran. “Shia extremists, backed by Iran, are training Iraqis to carry out attacks on our forces and the Iraqi people,” Bush told the national convention of the American Legion in August. “The attacks on our bases and our troops by Iranian-supplied munitions have increased. . . . The Iranian regime must halt these actions. And, until it does, I will take actions necessary to protect our troops.” He then concluded, to applause, “I have authorized our military commanders in Iraq to confront Tehran’s murderous activities.”

The President’s position, and its corollary—that, if many of America’s problems in Iraq are the responsibility of Tehran, then the solution to them is to confront the Iranians—have taken firm hold in the Administration. This summer, the White House, pushed by the office of Vice-President Dick Cheney, requested that the Joint Chiefs of Staff redraw long-standing plans for a possible attack on Iran, according to former officials and government consultants. The focus of the plans had been a broad bombing attack, with targets including Iran’s known and suspected nuclear facilities and other military and infrastructure sites. Now the emphasis is on “surgical” strikes on Revolutionary Guard Corps facilities in Tehran and elsewhere, which, the Administration claims, have been the source of attacks on Americans in Iraq. What had been presented primarily as a counter-proliferation mission has been reconceived as counterterrorism.

The shift in targeting reflects three developments. First, the President and his senior advisers have concluded that their campaign to convince the American public that Iran poses an imminent nuclear threat has failed (unlike a similar campaign before the Iraq war), and that as a result there is not enough popular support for a major bombing campaign. The second development is that the White House has come to terms, in private, with the general consensus of the American intelligence community that Iran is at least five years away from obtaining a bomb. And, finally, there has been a growing recognition in Washington and throughout the Middle East that Iran is emerging as the geopolitical winner of the war in Iraq.

(more) http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/10...?printable=true
SpaceCowboy
Bolton didn't get the same memo, though he's all for an attack-

QUOTE
Bolton: Attack Iran, 'remove' its leader
By JPOST.COM STAFF


Former US ambassador to the United Nations John Bolton told Tory delegates in Britain Sunday that efforts by the UK and the EU to negotiate with Iran had failed and that he saw no alternative to a pre-emptive strike on suspected nuclear facilities in the country.

Former US ambassador to the UN John Bolton.
Photo: AP [file]

Bolton said that Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was "pushing out" and "is not receiving adequate push-back" from the West.
"I don't think the use of military force is an attractive option, but I would tell you I don't know what the alternative is.

"Because life is about choices, I think we have to consider the use of military force. I think we have to look at a limited strike against their nuclear facilities."

He added that any strike should be followed by an attempt to remove the "source of the problem", Ahmadinejad.

"If we were to strike Iran it should be accompanied by an effort at regime change ... The US once had the capability to engineer the clandestine overthrow of governments. I wish we could get it back," he said.

I think that anyone who believes a strike on Iran will result in regime change is smoking crack.

Bolton said that the fact that only partial intelligence about Iran's nuclear activity existed should not be used as an excuse not to act.

"Intelligence can be wrong in more than one direction... Responding after they (nuclear devices) are used is unacceptable."

Bolton also said the UN was "fundamentally irrelevant".

The former envoy criticized Britain's "softly softly" approach to Iran's imprisonment of 15 British sailors in April.

They were released after Ahmadinejad announced he was making a "gift" to the British people. "They [Iran] got no response from the UK or the US. If you were the Iranian leader, what conclusion do you draw?"

(all) http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid...icle%2FShowFull



Valdron
QUOTE(Arturo_Vandelay @ Sep 30 2007, 04:04 AM) *
We better get both hands back on the stick or we'll wind up as lame as Canada.



Yeah, Canada's pretty lame. Better health care, better education, longer life expectancy, less unemployment, balanced budgets, trade surpluses, prettier women and a dollar that's gone from 66 cents American to parity.

ROTFL
Arturo_Vandelay
That's what the little Canuck pussies used to tell me when my wife worked for a Canadian firm. But all the winners wanted to work here, and all the losers and deadwood stayed there for the "free" stuff.

The one Canadian dyke that was after my wife sure as hell wasn't better looking than anyone north of Rosie O'Donnell.

If we didn't defend their asses they'd actually have to spend some of their OWN money on defense.

fredzbig
QUOTE(Nomarchy @ Sep 29 2007, 08:00 AM) *
In the interest of reciprocity, by the same token, it would certainly be better off without you and any and all folks who share even a bit of your genes and/or culture. How do you like them apples?


All I'd say is "you're welcome to give it your best shot" little man! 'Sides...you may already KNOW some of my "shared" gene pool and would more than likely find them intellectually and culturally more sophisticated than even YOU think YOU are! As much (little) as YOU know about me for SURE, I still think you'd be surprised...albeit not that pleasantly. Any way, feel free to bring your best...ANY time! tongue.gif
fredzbig
Better healthcare? HAHAHAHA! The canadians who can afford it come here for healthcare. Better education? Who's the most prominent canadian scientist in the world? What late breakthroughs has canadian "academics" brought forth? I won't argue all of the unemployment, balanced budgets and trade deficits because I really am not going to go study up on that, because I'm really NOT going to be convinced that canada is a better place to live. Prettier women? HAHAHAHAHA!!! I don't buy Playboy or Penthouse, but I don't believe they've made a huge effort to bring us the "Girls of Quebec" all that much. Women in the U.S. overall are the most beautiful in the world. Just ask anyone living in Chico, California! And if it weren't for democrats our dollar wouldn't be NEAR as weak as YOU seem to think it is.

The missus and I are doing better than ever in the hardest state in the US to make ends meet...and I took a job where I went from $40+ an hour to about half that...THEN bought a brand new house! Got two brand new cars and putting money in the bank every month. Problem in the US is that MOST folks live beyond what they're bringing in. Doesn't take a genius to figure out you can't spend more than you make...but that's what MANY folks in the US do.

BTW...feel free to just jump up into that canada thing...you really won't be missed here!
fredzbig
QUOTE(Arturo_Vandelay @ Sep 30 2007, 06:39 PM) *
That's what the little Canuck pussies used to tell me when my wife worked for a Canadian firm. But all the winners wanted to work here, and all the losers and deadwood stayed there for the "free" stuff.

The one Canadian dyke that was after my wife sure as hell wasn't better looking than anyone north of Rosie O'Donnell.

If we didn't defend their asses they'd actually have to spend some of their OWN money on defense.


I've met only a couple of gals from canada...and you've pretty much described them both. One could only be described as "burly!"
Arturo_Vandelay
QUOTE(fredzbig @ Sep 30 2007, 07:57 PM) *
I've met only a couple of gals from canada...and you've pretty much described them both. One could only be described as "burly!"


This one worked here half the year and still spent all her time bitching about the US. If you don't like it, go home. Take 15 million Mexicans along and see how your economic statistics change for the worse.
fredzbig
QUOTE(Arturo_Vandelay @ Sep 30 2007, 08:03 PM) *
This one worked here half the year and still spent all her time bitching about the US. If you don't like it, go home. Take 15 million Mexicans along and see how your economic statistics change for the worse.


Yup...pump as many duckets into giveaways as you can and watch the economy...in fact, send our democrats in congress up there to "straighten things out" for them and watch what happens!
Bart Katz
QUOTE(Valdron @ Sep 30 2007, 07:11 PM) *
Yeah, Canada's pretty lame. Better health care, better education, longer life expectancy, less unemployment, balanced budgets, trade surpluses, prettier women and a dollar that's gone from 66 cents American to parity.

ROTFL


Are you an example of Canadian education?
Nomarchy
What's with people thinking that fluctuations in the value of a country's currency are a reflection of its "strength"?
Bart Katz
QUOTE(Nomarchy @ Oct 1 2007, 01:11 AM) *
What's with people thinking that fluctuations in the value of a country's currency are a reflection of its "strength"?


Cause they're Canadians?
Nomarchy
QUOTE(fredzbig @ Sep 30 2007, 07:43 PM) *
All I'd say is "you're welcome to give it your best shot" little man! 'Sides...you may already KNOW some of my "shared" gene pool and would more than likely find them intellectually and culturally more sophisticated than even YOU think YOU are! As much (little) as YOU know about me for SURE, I still think you'd be surprised...albeit not that pleasantly. Any way, feel free to bring your best...ANY time! tongue.gif


What are you TALKING about? You condemned entire peoples, you speak ill of them en masse, you talk of wishing they all disappeared, and now you're coming back with this cowdoody?

Take my best shot? At what?

How would you know if anyone were intellectually and culturally sophisticated, btw?

I don't think I am that culturally sophisticated, btw.
Davis 2.0
<shakes head>



Valdron
QUOTE(Bart Katz @ Oct 1 2007, 05:24 AM) *
Are you an example of Canadian education?


Are you an example of American integrity? ROTFL
Valdron
QUOTE(Nomarchy @ Oct 1 2007, 06:11 AM) *
What's with people thinking that fluctuations in the value of a country's currency are a reflection of its "strength"?


Well, fluctuations in the value of currency do not denote anything so intangible as national 'strength.' But they do reflect such things as fiscal policy, trade surpluses or deficits, balanced budgets, the overall wealth of a country, the economic mix and balance, etc. etc.

Of course, Dick Cheney said 'deficits don't matter.' I assume that when the US dollar drops to the level of the Peso, he'll be saying the 'dollar doesn't matter.'
Valdron
QUOTE(Arturo_Vandelay @ Oct 1 2007, 01:39 AM) *
That's what the little Canuck pussies used to tell me when my wife worked for a Canadian firm. But all the winners wanted to work here, and all the losers and deadwood stayed there for the "free" stuff.

The one Canadian dyke that was after my wife sure as hell wasn't better looking than anyone north of Rosie O'Donnell.

If we didn't defend their asses they'd actually have to spend some of their OWN money on defense.


It's a sad fact that some Canadian dyke's have an unfortunate attraction to cows. Sorry to hear about your wife.

As for defending Canadian asses... from who? The bogeyman? Elves? Maybe America could have spent some of its own money defending itself on 9/11? Oops, couldn't be bothered.

Funny how all the losers and deadwood in Canadian auto plants are more efficient and profitable than the American auto plants. It's a mysterious world.
Davis 2.0
QUOTE(Valdron @ Oct 1 2007, 08:10 AM) *
Are you an example of American integrity? ROTFL



blink.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif
Bart Katz
QUOTE(Valdron @ Oct 1 2007, 08:10 AM) *
Are you an example of American integrity? ROTFL


I'm proud of being an American.

Why are you ashamed of being Canadian?
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