Full Version: Israel
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It seems the first car bombings were done by the Stern Gang. A splinter group of Zionists. Came back to bite them in the ass, it seems.
http://www.tomdispatch.com/index.mhtml?pid=76140
How Jews can cry about terrorism when they practically invented it, how they can kidnap a legally elected member of another government and then start a war over two kidnapped soldiers is disgusting.
Mossad is the terrorist wing of the Israeli government.
QUOTE(SherryB @ Aug 9 2006, 11:49 PM) [snapback]229126[/snapback]
It seems the first car bombings were done by the Stern Gang. A splinter group of Zionists. Came back to bite them in the ass, it seems.
http://www.tomdispatch.com/index.mhtml?pid=76140
How Jews can cry about terrorism when they practically invented it, how they can kidnap a legally elected member of another government and then start a war over two kidnapped soldiers is disgusting.
Mossad is the terrorist wing of the Israeli government.
QUOTE
On a warm September day in 1920, a few months after the arrest of his comrades Sacco and Vanzetti, a vengeful Italian anarchist named Mario Buda parked his horse-drawn wagon near the corner of Wall and Broad Streets, directly across from J. P. Morgan Company. He nonchalantly climbed down and disappeared, unnoticed, into the lunchtime crowd. A few blocks away, a startled postal worker found strange leaflets warning: "Free the Political Prisoners or it will be Sure Death for All of You!" They were signed: "American Anarchist Fighters." The bells of nearby Trinity Church began to toll at noon. When they stopped, the wagon -- packed with dynamite and iron slugs -- exploded in a fireball of shrapnel.
http://www.tomdispatch.com/index.mhtml?pid=76140
QUOTE
Buda's wagon was, in essence, the prototype car bomb: the first use of an inconspicuous vehicle, anonymous in almost any urban setting, to transport large quantities of high explosive into precise range of a high-value target.
QUOTE(Bart Katz @ Aug 10 2006, 12:55 AM) [snapback]229130[/snapback]
Buda's wagon was, in essence, the prototype car bomb: the first use of an inconspicuous vehicle, anonymous in almost any urban setting, to transport large quantities of high explosive into precise range of a high-value target. (Horse and buggy) It was not replicated, as far as I have been able to determine, until January 12, 1947 when the Stern Gang drove a truckload of explosives into a British police station in Haifa, Palestine, killing 4 and injuring 140. The Stern Gang (a pro-fascist splinter group led by Avraham Stern that broke away from the right-wing Zionist paramilitary Irgun) would soon
use truck and car bombs to kill Palestinians as well: a creative atrocity
immediately reciprocated by British deserters fighting on the side of Palestinian nationalists.
(The Pals are just using the tactics used on them starting in 1947 and continuing until today. Lessons learned)
Vehicle bombs thereafter were used sporadically -- producing notable massacres in Saigon (1952), Algiers (1962), and Palermo (1963) -- but the gates of hell were only truly opened in 1972, when the Provisional Irish Republican Army (IRA) accidentally, so the legend goes, improvised the first ammonium nitrate-fuel oil (ANFO) car bomb. These new-generation bombs, requiring only ordinary industrial ingredients and synthetic fertilizer, were cheap to fabricate and astonishingly powerful: they elevated urban terrorism from the artisanal to the industrial level, and made possible sustained blitzes against entire city centers as well as the complete destruction of ferro-concrete skyscrapers and residential blocks.
The car bomb, in other words, suddenly became a semi-strategic weapon that, under certain circumstances, was comparable to airpower in its ability to knock out critical urban nodes and headquarters as well as terrorize the populations of entire cities. Indeed, the suicide truck bombs that devastated the U.S. embassy and Marine barracks in Beirut in 1983 prevailed -- at least in a geopolitical sense -- over the combined firepower of the fighter-bombers and battleships of the U.S. Sixth Fleet and forced the Reagan administration to retreat from Lebanon.
Hezbollah's ruthless and brilliant use of car bombs in Lebanon in the 1980s to counter the advanced military technology of the United States, France, and Israel soon emboldened a dozen other groups to bring their insurgencies and jihads home to the metropolis. Some of the new-generation car bombers were graduates of terrorism schools set up by the CIA and Pakistani intelligence (the ISI), with Saudi financing, in the mid-1980s to train mujahedin to terrorize the Russians then occupying Kabul. Between 1992 and 1998, 16 major vehicle bomb attacks in 13 different cities killed 1,050 people and wounded nearly 12,000. More importantly from a geopolitical standpoint, the IRA and Gama'a al-Islamiyya inflicted billions of dollars of damage on the two leading control-centers of the world economy -- the City of London (1992, 1993, and 1996) and lower Manhattan (1993) -- and forced a reorganization of the global reinsurance industry.
Kind of bit us on the ass too, didn't it?
QUOTE
The Stern Gang (a pro-fascist splinter group led by Avraham Stern that broke away from the right-wing Zionist paramilitary Irgun)
QUOTE(Bart Katz @ Aug 10 2006, 04:10 AM) [snapback]229109[/snapback]
The prisoners are Pals. If you count up the number of Israeli's killed and maimed in suicide bombings by the Pals, then your math might come out a little closer.
Since I'm not that familiar with the history, and since most of the board sees this differently than I apparently do, I'll just concede that I must/might be mistaken. I don't like to argue (too much) unless I'm sure that I'm right, and obviously I don't know that in this case.
QUOTE(bay @ Aug 10 2006, 12:29 AM) [snapback]229139[/snapback]
Since I'm not that familiar with the history, and since most of the board sees this differently than I apparently do, I'll just concede that I must/might be mistaken. I don't like to argue (too much) unless I'm sure that I'm right, and obviously I don't know that in this case.
Right now Israel has a two front war with Hezbolla to the North and Pals in Gaza. They are two different groups with the same goals.
QUOTE(Bart Katz @ Aug 10 2006, 12:34 AM) [snapback]229140[/snapback]
Right now Israel has a two front war with Hezbolla to the North and Pals in Gaza. They are two different groups with the same goals.
But copperheads all the same.
QUOTE
It was not replicated, as far as I have been able to determine, until January 12, 1947 when the Stern Gang drove a truckload of explosives into a British police station in Haifa, Palestine, killing 4 and injuring 140. The Stern Gang (a pro-fascist splinter group led by Avraham Stern that broke away from the right-wing Zionist paramilitary Irgun) would soon use truck and car bombs to kill Palestinians as well: a creative atrocity immediately reciprocated by British deserters fighting on the side of Palestinian nationalists.
I'll be darned. Israelis introduced the suicide car bomb? I'll be darned. Isn't that ironic?
Reprinted from NewsMax.com
Tuesday, Aug. 8, 2006 4:06 p.m. EDT
Iran Hints at Aug. 22 Doomsday for Israel
Bernard Lewis (born May 31, 1916) is the Cleveland E. Dodge Professor of Near Eastern Studies Emeritus at Princeton University. He specializes in the history of Islam and the interaction between Islam and the West.
He is one of the most widely read Western scholars of the Middle East.
Noted Middle Eastern scholar Bernard Lewis warns that Iran is preparing for an apocalyptic "end of time” – and that it could come as soon as August 22.
The July 28 edition of NewsMax’s Insider Report pointed to the connection between that date, when Iran leader Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said his country would respond to Western demands regarding Iran’s nuclear program, and a possible attack on Israel.
Now Lewis, professor emeritus of Near Eastern Studies at Princeton, writes about that scenario. He notes in the Wall Street Journal that this year, August 22 corresponds, in the Islamic calendar, to the night when Muhammad flew first to "the farthest mosque” – usually identified with Jerusalem – and then to heaven and back.
"This might well be deemed an appropriate date for the apocalyptic ending of Israel and if necessary the world,” writes Lewis, whose most recent book is "From Babel to Dragomans: Interpreting the Middle East.”
He also points to an intriguing reason why the Iranians might not fret at all about an Israeli counterstrike – even with nuclear weapons.
What deterred both sides from using nuclear weapons during the Cold War was the concept of MAD, mutual assured destruction. But the "apocalyptic worldview” of Iran’s current leaders works against that concept, according to Lewis.
Ahmadinejad is a strong believer in the Shiite tradition of a 12th imam, the so-called "hidden” Imam Mahdi who Allah has miraculously kept alive since his disappearance in 874 A.D.
Shiites believe Imam Mahdi will return at a time of great global chaos – and the Web site Zionist.com states: "Ahmadinejad sees himself as Allah’s instrument to pave the way for Imam Mahdi.”
According to Lewis, Ahmadinejad and his followers "clearly believe that this time is now.”
He cites the phrase "Allah will know his own” to explain why Iran might be willing to usher in the apocalypse even if it means the death of many Muslims.
"It means that while infidel, i.e., non-Muslim, victims will go to a well-deserved punishment in hell, Muslims will be sent straight to heaven,” enjoying "the rewards without the struggles of martyrdom.”
For people with this mindset, Lewis writes, "MAD is not a constraint; it is an inducement.”
He adds: "It is far from certain that Mr. Ahmadinejad plans any such cataclysmic events precisely for Aug. 22, but it would be wise to bear the possibility in mind.”
And in the long term, Lewis feels, the best hope of staving off an Iranian-spurred conflagration "is to appeal to those Muslims, Iranians, Arabs and others who do not share these apocalyptic perceptions and aspirations, and feel as much threatened, indeed even more threatened, than we are.”
Maybe I should hold off paying my bills....
QUOTE(Human Ills @ Aug 10 2006, 08:40 AM) [snapback]229202[/snapback]
Maybe I should hold off paying my bills....
Might as well pay up. If the world as we know it ends, you really don't want anything hanging over your head. It could muck up your credit rating for eternity.
Not too late to win
Jerusalem Post, by Binyamin Netanyahu
8/10/2006 12:35:48 PM
The government's decision comes late, very late, but not too late. Destroying Hizbullah's fighting capacity and missile arsenal remains the objective that Israel must achieve. Clearly, air power alone cannot do so and a major ground offensive is necessary. While this should have been done considerably earlier, it nevertheless should be done today. Firstly, on the military front, our goal should be victory over Hizbullah, a proxy military force for Iran.
I'll venture to say that even the libs in Israel today wish they had elected Netanyahu instead of the softie they have in office and is dragging his feet almost to defeat!
Jerusalem Post, by Binyamin Netanyahu
8/10/2006 12:35:48 PM
The government's decision comes late, very late, but not too late. Destroying Hizbullah's fighting capacity and missile arsenal remains the objective that Israel must achieve. Clearly, air power alone cannot do so and a major ground offensive is necessary. While this should have been done considerably earlier, it nevertheless should be done today. Firstly, on the military front, our goal should be victory over Hizbullah, a proxy military force for Iran.
I'll venture to say that even the libs in Israel today wish they had elected Netanyahu instead of the softie they have in office and is dragging his feet almost to defeat!
Bibi may end up the next Prime Minister of Israel after all this quiets down.
QUOTE(beasty @ Aug 10 2006, 04:27 PM) [snapback]229230[/snapback]
Might as well pay up. If the world as we know it ends, you really don't want anything hanging over your head. It could muck up your credit rating for eternity.
I always love it when writers, clerks, etc. leave off the year, or even the date entirely. Actually that is one of my prime pet peaves. Have you ever tried to go back and put files in chronological order when there is no sign of a date anywhere.
QUOTE
Noted Middle Eastern scholar Bernard Lewis warns that Iran is preparing for an apocalyptic "end of time” – and that it could come as soon as August 22.
I can see August 23rd come and go and someone confront Lewis that nothing had happened....., and his reply... "oh, that's not until the year 2999".
QUOTE(bay @ Aug 10 2006, 12:03 PM) [snapback]229250[/snapback]
I can see August 23rd come and go and someone confront Lewis that nothing had happened....., and his reply... "oh, that's not until the year 2999".
forgot to carry the 1.
QUOTE(bay @ Aug 10 2006, 10:03 AM) [snapback]229250[/snapback]
I always love it when writers, clerks, etc. leave off the year, or even the date entirely. Actually that is one of my prime pet peaves. Have you ever tried to go back and put files in chronological order when there is no sign of a date anywhere.
Files? I only use the circular one. At least at home.
QUOTE(SpaceCowboy @ Aug 10 2006, 09:56 AM) [snapback]229246[/snapback]
Bibi may end up the next Prime Minister of Israel after all this quiets down.
When the peace candidates get in you end up at war, and when the war candidates get in you end up with peace. Their enemies know the relative strengths and have some sense of timing. Bibi would have gone with the original plan, and Hezbollah's head would have been gone three weeks ago. At less loss of civilian life too.
the circular file rules. the computer equivelant, the recycle bin also rules.
QUOTE(SherryB @ Aug 9 2006, 09:01 PM) [snapback]229104[/snapback]
It is to me.
Can you explain that to me?
QUOTE
Aug. 9, 2006 18:08 | Updated Aug. 10, 2006 9:54
40,000 troops await word to enter Lebanon
By YAAKOV KATZ
40,000 IDF troops and reservists were massed along the northern border Wednesday evening in preparation for Israel's largest and deepest ground incursion into southern Lebanon since the beginning of Operation Change of Direction last month.
Some 7,000 IDF troops were operating in southern Lebanon Wednesday, clashing with Hizbullah guerrillas in several villages while holding and maintaining position along a 10-kilometer-deep security zone the IDF had created.
A high-ranking IDF officer and member of the General Staff told The Jerusalem Post Wednesday that it would take the military at least one week to reach the Litani and beyond, and to set up position and begin taking control of the area.
The officer said that it would then take four to six weeks to clear out southern Lebanon, from the Litani river south, of the Hizbullah presence and to destroy the thousands of Katyusha rockets and rocket launchers believed to be in that area.
40,000 troops await word to enter Lebanon
By YAAKOV KATZ
40,000 IDF troops and reservists were massed along the northern border Wednesday evening in preparation for Israel's largest and deepest ground incursion into southern Lebanon since the beginning of Operation Change of Direction last month.
Some 7,000 IDF troops were operating in southern Lebanon Wednesday, clashing with Hizbullah guerrillas in several villages while holding and maintaining position along a 10-kilometer-deep security zone the IDF had created.
A high-ranking IDF officer and member of the General Staff told The Jerusalem Post Wednesday that it would take the military at least one week to reach the Litani and beyond, and to set up position and begin taking control of the area.
The officer said that it would then take four to six weeks to clear out southern Lebanon, from the Litani river south, of the Hizbullah presence and to destroy the thousands of Katyusha rockets and rocket launchers believed to be in that area.
(more) http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid...rticle/ShowFull
QUOTE(bay @ Aug 10 2006, 01:03 PM) [snapback]229250[/snapback]
I can see August 23rd come and go and someone confront Lewis that nothing had happened....., and his reply... "oh, that's not until the year 2999".
QUOTE
Noted Middle Eastern scholar Bernard Lewis warns that Iran is preparing for an apocalyptic "end of time” – and that it could come as soon as August 22.
The July 28 edition of NewsMax’s Insider Report pointed to the connection between that date, when Iran leader Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said his country would respond to Western demands regarding Iran’s nuclear program, and a possible attack on Israel.
Now Lewis, professor emeritus of Near Eastern Studies at Princeton, writes about that scenario. He notes in the Wall Street Journal that this year, August 22 corresponds, in the Islamic calendar, to the night when Muhammad flew first to "the farthest mosque” – usually identified with Jerusalem – and then to heaven and back.
"This might well be deemed an appropriate date for the apocalyptic ending of Israel and if necessary the world,” writes Lewis, whose most recent book is "From Babel to Dragomans: Interpreting the Middle East.”
The July 28 edition of NewsMax’s Insider Report pointed to the connection between that date, when Iran leader Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said his country would respond to Western demands regarding Iran’s nuclear program, and a possible attack on Israel.
Now Lewis, professor emeritus of Near Eastern Studies at Princeton, writes about that scenario. He notes in the Wall Street Journal that this year, August 22 corresponds, in the Islamic calendar, to the night when Muhammad flew first to "the farthest mosque” – usually identified with Jerusalem – and then to heaven and back.
"This might well be deemed an appropriate date for the apocalyptic ending of Israel and if necessary the world,” writes Lewis, whose most recent book is "From Babel to Dragomans: Interpreting the Middle East.”
Read for content, not for purpose to suit a need!
QUOTE
40,000 troops await word to enter Lebanon
<loooong whistle>
QUOTE
The officer said that it would then take four to six weeks to clear out southern Lebanon, from the Litani river south, of the Hizbullah presence and to destroy the thousands of Katyusha rockets and rocket launchers believed to be in that area.
I think they should be allowed (not interfered with) to try that.
Ditto... not a vital national interest for the US and by any means neccesary since they will be killing radical Islamic terrorists....
QUOTE(Nomarchy @ Aug 10 2006, 12:25 PM) [snapback]229270[/snapback]
I think they should be allowed (not interfered with) to try that.
I agree. The damage to Lebanon has largely beeen done. It would be a shame to stop short of surpressing Hez to the extent that they can.
Saw a story this am about some Iranians among the Dead Hez...
QUOTE(arebuntz @ Aug 10 2006, 12:35 PM) [snapback]229280[/snapback]
Saw a story this am about some Iranians among the Dead Hez...
I saw one like that on Fox. I don't know how much to credit it though. The Fox military commentator said they were easy to identify because they carried ID, unlike the Hez. That didn't make sense to me.
QUOTE(arebuntz @ Aug 10 2006, 10:35 AM) [snapback]229280[/snapback]
Saw a story this am about some Iranians among the Dead Hez...
We already knew they trained the Hez. It's a proxy war between the US and Israel, Versus Hez, Hamas, Syria and Iran.
There isn't going to be any way to hide from this forever. Iran wants to destroy Israel, unite Islam against the west, AND punish the US in a big way. I can't see them just giving up those goals.
QUOTE(Arturo_Vandelay @ Aug 10 2006, 01:39 PM) [snapback]229282[/snapback]
We already knew they trained the Hez. It's a proxy war between the US and Israel, Versus Hez, Hamas, Syria and Iran.
There isn't going to be any way to hide from this forever. Iran wants to destroy Israel, unite Islam against the west, AND punish the US in a big way. I can't see them just giving up those goals.
West is going to have to sustain a large blow to get their juices flowin' for this fight, probably in the US...
QUOTE(arebuntz @ Aug 10 2006, 10:40 AM) [snapback]229283[/snapback]
West is going to have to sustain a large blow to get their juices flowin' for this fight, probably in the US...
Can't just go out getting pre-emptive on their asses.
QUOTE(beasty @ Aug 10 2006, 01:42 PM) [snapback]229285[/snapback]
Can't just go out getting pre-emptive on their asses.
Pretty much refigured that out last couple of years and Iraq was small potatoes. 1930s would be a good roadmap and probably need another Roosevelt to smooth the way....
QUOTE(arebuntz @ Aug 10 2006, 10:45 AM) [snapback]229290[/snapback]
Pretty much refigured that out last couple of years and Iraq was small potatoes. 1930s would be a good roadmap and probably need another Roosevelt to smooth the way....
Like "let Pearl Harbor happen"?
QUOTE(beasty @ Aug 10 2006, 10:42 AM) [snapback]229285[/snapback]
Can't just go out getting pre-emptive on their asses.
We can, if we choose to. Roll the dice and see if it works out any better this time around.
No one can prevent us from doing so. Except for the American citizenry itself, of course.
Space, this ID carrying stuff is getting to be laughable. At least, they didn't claim they had travel documents and birth-certificates on their person, this time.
I gotta check out what that Thomas P.M. Barnett has to say about what's going on.
QUOTE(Arturo_Vandelay @ Aug 10 2006, 01:48 PM) [snapback]229291[/snapback]
Like "let Pearl Harbor happen"?
In the broadest possible sense....
QUOTE(Arturo_Vandelay @ Aug 10 2006, 10:39 AM) [snapback]229282[/snapback]
We already knew they trained the Hez. It's a proxy war between the US and Israel, Versus Hez, Hamas, Syria and Iran.
There isn't going to be any way to hide from this forever. Iran wants to destroy Israel, unite Islam against the west, AND punish the US in a big way. I can't see them just giving up those goals.
What do Israel and the US want to do?
QUOTE(Nomarchy @ Aug 10 2006, 10:49 AM) [snapback]229292[/snapback]
We can, if we choose to. Roll the dice and see if it works out any better this time around.
Better? Took and held a whole violent country years with 3000 combat deaths. I'm not sure that's possible.
QUOTE(Nomarchy @ Aug 10 2006, 12:49 PM) [snapback]229292[/snapback]
We can, if we choose to. Roll the dice and see if it works out any better this time around.
No one can prevent from doing so.
Space, this ID carrying stuff is getting to be laughable. At least, they didn't claim they had travel documents and birth-certificates on their person, this time.
Yeah, I figure they would get rid of anything that would tie them to Iran before entering Lebanon.
QUOTE(Nomarchy @ Aug 10 2006, 10:51 AM) [snapback]229295[/snapback]
What do Israel and the US want to do?
The US wants to put off trouble. Israel seems to be tired of putting off the inevitable.
Well we failed to declare victory when we won the war and fell for that you broke it you own it garbage. Of course our strategy to grab land instead of destroy the Iraqi Army was a problem too. Before any large move on the Middle East the West needs to determine the goal up front and it shouldn't be to occupy and repair... Extinguish the fire, roll up the hoses, and head back to the house....
QUOTE
The indisputable war leader here is the head of Hezbollah. He has no government post and doesn't need any to wage his Lebanon-destroying war. But, clearly Sheik Hassan Nasrallah intends to someday rule the country, even if he must first destroy it to gain that chance.
This is a splendid little war by a political candidate, not an office-holder, much like Sadr's gamble in Iraq. Nasrallah shows he is true Arab despot wannabe: ready to kill as many of his countrymen as is required for his ascension.
There is little aim of militarily defeating Israel, but that's not the purpose of his war anyway (beyond his puppet-like fealty to Iran: as one Lebanese sociologist and descedent of Shiite clerics puts it, "(The war) was a huge mistake and he is solely responsible for all the destruction. He proved that he does not care about Lebanese interests: he has revealed his Iranian skin."). The true purpose of his war is to advance Hezbollah's bid for power. In peace, Hezbollah has no hope for rule in diverse, cosmopolitan (relatively) Lebanon, where Shiite fundamentalism has always exerted a very weak appeal.
But in war, Nazrallah's stature rises, as Hezbollah is seen as the courageous agent of action. That Lebanon is once again reduced to rubble and disconnectedness matters not.
Call Nasrallah what you want, but his impact is little different from any other Arab despot. We're just watching him on the rise. In that sense, while I find Hezbollah's tactics quite 4GW, his ends are eminently predictable and familar.
What's so sad, of course, is how his moral bankruptcy and naked ambition is viewed as heroic by the Arab world, which is like the battered wife that keeps slinking back to the badass husband despite the long-term abuse: she simply can't imagine anything else after all these decades.
So what is perverse to us is natural to them--and vice versa.
This is a splendid little war by a political candidate, not an office-holder, much like Sadr's gamble in Iraq. Nasrallah shows he is true Arab despot wannabe: ready to kill as many of his countrymen as is required for his ascension.
There is little aim of militarily defeating Israel, but that's not the purpose of his war anyway (beyond his puppet-like fealty to Iran: as one Lebanese sociologist and descedent of Shiite clerics puts it, "(The war) was a huge mistake and he is solely responsible for all the destruction. He proved that he does not care about Lebanese interests: he has revealed his Iranian skin."). The true purpose of his war is to advance Hezbollah's bid for power. In peace, Hezbollah has no hope for rule in diverse, cosmopolitan (relatively) Lebanon, where Shiite fundamentalism has always exerted a very weak appeal.
But in war, Nazrallah's stature rises, as Hezbollah is seen as the courageous agent of action. That Lebanon is once again reduced to rubble and disconnectedness matters not.
Call Nasrallah what you want, but his impact is little different from any other Arab despot. We're just watching him on the rise. In that sense, while I find Hezbollah's tactics quite 4GW, his ends are eminently predictable and familar.
What's so sad, of course, is how his moral bankruptcy and naked ambition is viewed as heroic by the Arab world, which is like the battered wife that keeps slinking back to the badass husband despite the long-term abuse: she simply can't imagine anything else after all these decades.
So what is perverse to us is natural to them--and vice versa.
http://www.thomaspmbarnett.com/weblog/
QUOTE(SpaceCowboy @ Aug 10 2006, 01:53 PM) [snapback]229298[/snapback]
Yeah, I figure they would get rid of anything that would tie them to Iran before entering Lebanon.
Well unless the goal is to widen the war with some plausable deniability afterward which a direct strike from Iran would not have...
QUOTE(arebuntz @ Aug 10 2006, 10:58 AM) [snapback]229302[/snapback]
Well we failed to declare victory when we won the war and fell for that you broke it you own it garbage. Of course our strategy to grab land instead of destroy the Iraqi Army was a problem too. Before any large move on the Middle East the West needs to determine the goal up front and it shouldn't be to occupy and repair... Extinguish the fire, roll up the hoses, and head back to the house....
Find, flatten, forget.
QUOTE(Nomarchy @ Aug 10 2006, 12:59 PM) [snapback]229303[/snapback]
So what is perverse to us is natural to them--and vice versa.
Ain't that the truth.
QUOTE(Lord_Proprietor @ Aug 10 2006, 05:23 PM) [snapback]229266[/snapback]
QUOTE
QUOTE
Noted Middle Eastern scholar Bernard Lewis warns that Iran is preparing for an apocalyptic "end of time” – and that it could come as soon as August 22.
The July 28 edition of NewsMax’s Insider Report pointed to the connection between that date, when Iran leader Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said his country would respond to Western demands regarding Iran’s nuclear program, and a possible attack on Israel.
Now Lewis, professor emeritus of Near Eastern Studies at Princeton, writes about that scenario. He notes in the Wall Street Journal that this year, August 22 corresponds, in the Islamic calendar, to the night when Muhammad flew first to "the farthest mosque” – usually identified with Jerusalem – and then to heaven and back.
"This might well be deemed an appropriate date for the apocalyptic ending of Israel and if necessary the world,” writes Lewis, whose most recent book is "From Babel to Dragomans: Interpreting the Middle East.”
Noted Middle Eastern scholar Bernard Lewis warns that Iran is preparing for an apocalyptic "end of time” – and that it could come as soon as August 22.
The July 28 edition of NewsMax’s Insider Report pointed to the connection between that date, when Iran leader Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said his country would respond to Western demands regarding Iran’s nuclear program, and a possible attack on Israel.
Now Lewis, professor emeritus of Near Eastern Studies at Princeton, writes about that scenario. He notes in the Wall Street Journal that this year, August 22 corresponds, in the Islamic calendar, to the night when Muhammad flew first to "the farthest mosque” – usually identified with Jerusalem – and then to heaven and back.
"This might well be deemed an appropriate date for the apocalyptic ending of Israel and if necessary the world,” writes Lewis, whose most recent book is "From Babel to Dragomans: Interpreting the Middle East.”
Read for content, not for purpose to suit a need!
LP, I am well aware you stand so far above me in intellect and education that I knell in awe of that.
Why would I read if not for a purpose to suit a need. (I'm going blind; I don't read just for the ....)
I went back and read for content. In my broad picture - a waste of time. You apparently know what all the stuff in the article means – I don’t. ?? I know a lot of things, about a lot of things and obviously this isn’t one of them. I’m supposed to get excited that Muhammad flew to heaven and back?? My God is a simple God who serves me well. I trust him with my life, my heart, my soul and mind. I do not think he looks kindly at all the hate and war and destruction this world is hell-bent (that might be a good choice of words) on producing. Enough already!
But I still think if you’re going to write something you need to identify it with a complete date.
QUOTE(Nomarchy @ Aug 10 2006, 10:51 AM) [snapback]229295[/snapback]
What do Israel and the US want to do?
Make the Arabs disappear.
QUOTE(Human Ills @ Aug 10 2006, 11:34 AM) [snapback]229320[/snapback]
Make the Arabs disappear.
Some of the Iranians are not Arabs, so I guess they'll be ok, then.
QUOTE(beasty @ Aug 10 2006, 06:03 PM) [snapback]229305[/snapback]
QUOTE
QUOTE(arebuntz @ Aug 10 2006, 10:58 AM)
Well we failed to declare victory when we won the war and fell for that you broke it you own it garbage. Of course our strategy to grab land instead of destroy the Iraqi Army was a problem too. Before any large move on the Middle East the West needs to determine the goal up front and it shouldn't be to occupy and repair... Extinguish the fire, roll up the hoses, and head back to the house....
Well we failed to declare victory when we won the war and fell for that you broke it you own it garbage. Of course our strategy to grab land instead of destroy the Iraqi Army was a problem too. Before any large move on the Middle East the West needs to determine the goal up front and it shouldn't be to occupy and repair... Extinguish the fire, roll up the hoses, and head back to the house....
Find, flatten, forget.
Good thinking.
QUOTE(Nomarchy @ Aug 10 2006, 11:40 AM) [snapback]229322[/snapback]
Some of the Iranians are not Arabs, so I guess they'll be ok, then.
Wasn't the answer you were looking for?
QUOTE(Human Ills @ Aug 10 2006, 11:42 AM) [snapback]229324[/snapback]
Wasn't the answer you were looking for?
No. I wanted art to do for the us and israel what he had done for iran.
QUOTE(Human Ills @ Aug 10 2006, 11:42 AM) [snapback]229324[/snapback]
Wasn't the answer you were looking for?
Persians, Arabs. Allah will know the difference.
Israel says BBC not reporting war fairly 
The Jerusalem Post, by Gil Hoffman
8/10/2006 1:58:58 PM
The Foreign Ministry is under pressure from Israeli citizens to resume its boycott of the BBC and to withdraw credentials from its reporters due to "one-sided" reports on the war in Lebanon, Israeli diplomatic officials said Wednesday. For seven months during a wave of Palestinian violence in 2003, Israeli officials boycotted BBC news programs, declining interviews and excluding BBC reporters from briefings.
The Jerusalem Post, by Gil Hoffman
8/10/2006 1:58:58 PM
The Foreign Ministry is under pressure from Israeli citizens to resume its boycott of the BBC and to withdraw credentials from its reporters due to "one-sided" reports on the war in Lebanon, Israeli diplomatic officials said Wednesday. For seven months during a wave of Palestinian violence in 2003, Israeli officials boycotted BBC news programs, declining interviews and excluding BBC reporters from briefings.
QUOTE(bay @ Aug 10 2006, 01:32 PM) [snapback]229317[/snapback]
Read for content, not for purpose to suit a need!
LP, I am well aware you stand so far above me in intellect and education that I knell in awe of that.
Why would I read if not for a purpose to suit a need. (I'm going blind; I don't read just for the ....)
I went back and read for content. In my broad picture - a waste of time.
Just so you know, I think so too.
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