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SpaceCowboy
QUOTE(Brian_Lambchops @ Aug 12 2006, 12:08 PM) [snapback]229938[/snapback]

Judy's sympathies have drifted into wishful thinking. You know how bad it is when Hezbollah says they will abide by a truce.

They'll go with the cease fire but haven't "signed on to the package".

But don't worry, the French will disarm them by purely political means. smile.gif
Brian_Lambchops
QUOTE(SpaceCowboy @ Aug 12 2006, 10:12 AM) [snapback]229940[/snapback]


But don't worry, the French will disarm them by purely political means. smile.gif


I can't recall the french disarming anyone by any means in a while. Disheading perhaps.

IPB Image
SherryB


While all eyes have been on the Lebanese border, Israel has been busy behind the scenes.


Israeli Occupation Government Kidnaps Speaker of Palestinian Parliament, PM Haniyeh: Al-Duwaik's Kidnapping a Crime of Piracy

06/08/2006

Palestine Media Center – PMC

The Palestinian National Authority (PNA) condemned the kidnapping of the Speaker of the Palestinian Legislative Council (PLC), Dr. Abdul Aziz Al-Duwaik, by the Israeli Occupation Forces (IOF) in Ramallah on Saturday as an “act of piracy” in violation of the 4th Geneva Convention aimed at paralyzing the PNA’s legislative and executive powers.

Al-Duwaik was the most senior of more than sixty Palestinian cabinet ministers, lawmakers, mayors and politicians kidnapped by the IOF since June 25 when Palestinian anti-occupation activists captured an Israeli soldier and killed two more in a daring military attack in southern Gaza Strip.

In retaliation Israel went on rampage, killing more than 177 Palestinians of which the majority were civilians, children and women, destroyed the infrastructure of the Gaza Strip, including the buildings of the premiership, and the foreign and interior ministries, bombed out power and water supplies, and exacerbated the humanitarian crisis there by sealing off the Mediterranean coastal strip.


Overnight Sunday, more than 20 IOF vehicles surrounded al-Duwaik’s house in the West Bank town of Ramallah and kidnapped him, the director of the speaker's office and security officers told AP.

Eyewitnesses told Israeli Ynet that equipment and computers were taken from his home.

“We were sitting home peacefully, normally. Then we heard knocking on the door, which surprised and shocked us because the knocking was so loud,” al-Duwaik’s wife told Reuters.

“He went down because the (Israeli) army was there. He opened the door. They saw him in his pyjamas and asked him to go with them. He asked for his clothes, and I brought them,” she added.

The IOF confirmed al-Duwaik was “taken into custody.” “He is the head of Hamas's legislature and since Hamas is a terrorist organization, he is a target for arrest,” an IOF spkesman said, according to the Israeli daily Haaretz.

Palestinian Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh condemned al-Dweik’s kidnapping as “another crime of piracy by the (Israeli) occupation against the elected representatives of our people” and called for international parliamentary action to win his release.

“We condemn and reject this Israeli piracy,” Haniyeh told Reuters.

“We urge all Arab and international parliamentarians to condemn and denounce this crime and to secure the release of Aziz Dweik and all jailed ministers and lawmakers,” he added.

First Deputy Speaker Ahmad Bahar in Gaza city said al-Duwaik’s kidnapping is an Israeli violation of the 4th Geneva Convention, aiming at paralyzing the PLC and the fall of PNA government, democratically elected on January 25.

The PNA government spokesman, Ghazi Hamad, said that, “Israel is a state above the law. There's no point in even questioning why. They do whatever they want,” adding that the IOF “have been looking for him for a long time — ever since the capture of the Israeli soldier.”

Members of the PLC’s “Change and Reform” Bloc, which won January’s democratic elections, issued a statement on Sunday morning, condemning Israel’s utter disregard for international law and international legitimacy.

Such utter disregard for this “thing called international law,” will not break “the steadfastness of the Palestinian and Lebanese resistance to Israeli attacks,” the bloc’s statement said.

Palestinian Ministry of Foreign Affairs said last Monday that the IOF soldiers kidnapped 600 Palestinians since the capture of the Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit on June 25.

The Second Deputy Speaker of the PLC, Hassan Khuraisheh, was also kidnapped by the IOF but released last Sunday after a one-month detention.

The PNA Minister of Planning Samir abu Eisheh was released in mid-July, and Prisoners' Affairs Minister Wasfi Kibha was freed on Wednesday.

Israeli occupation government isolates Speaker of Palestinian Parliament in solitary prison cell

Ramallah, August 6, 2006 (RNA) –

Israeli occupation prison forces isolated Sunday afternoon Speaker of the Palestinian Parliament, Dr. Abdul Aziz Al-Duwaik in a solitary prison cell.


Dr. Duwaik's aid and prisoners in Ofer detention center told RNA that the soldiers of a special unit stormed in the prison where Dr. Duwaik is jailed, forced him out of the prison cell and confiscated his cell phone.

The raid came after an interview with RNA conducted via phone this afternoon.


The same sources said that Dr. Duwaik was isolated in a separate prison cell. They worry that he might be sent to some prison within Israel, where he would be detained in much worse conditions, as are other member of the Palestinian Legislative Council and ministers of the Palestinian government who are detained in Ayalon prison in Al-Ramlah.



Palestinian Legislative Council Hamas bloc: no international law as Israel arrests Speaker

PNN, (Ramallah) Palestine News Network Sunday, 06 August 2006

For Palestinians, international law has become “so-called.” It does not apply, and has not for years under Israeli occupation. At midnight Israeli forces arrested the Speaker of the Palestinian Legislative Council. Dr. Abdul Aziz Al-Duwaik was in his Ramallah home when Israeli forces surrounded it. His wife told reporters that Dweik came to the broken-open door in his pajamas. All parties are denouncing the arrest, including the head of PLO negotiations, Dr. Sa'eb Erekat who described the Israeli attack on Dr. Duwaik as "an attack on the Palestinian Authority."

Members of the PLC’s Change and Reform Bloc, which was the winning Hamas party in January’s democratic elections, issued a statement Sunday morning. It reads it part that this shows the utter disregard for international law and international legitimacy, affirming that there is no such thing when it comes to the treatment of Palestinians. Israeli forces began arresting elected officials months ago as the US began it political and economic blockade against the Palestinian government and the people who elected it.

How this is all occurring under the eyes of the United Nations and the international community without a blink baffles even the most cynical critic. The Hamas government statement also read that such utter disregard for this “thing called international law,” will not break “the steadfastness of the Palestinian and Lebanese resistance to Israeli attacks.”

The PLC deputies added that it seems the Israeli government believes that by continuing to arrest high members of Parliament, they will not need to trade any Palestinian political prisoners for the captured Israeli soldier. Hamas has asked for the release of women and children from Israeli prisons since the Israeli soldier was captured in the southern West Bank town of Rafah.

This could not be further from the truth, according to the PLC members, who stated instead that the Israelis clearly do not understand that resistance to occupation is the right of the occupied population under international law, “so-called” or not."

When Bush wanted people to have elections, "their freedoms", I guess that only means they have the right to elect US/Israel approved candidates. Some freedom. No wonder they hate us. They get their freedom and WE take it away.



Repub_Bub
QUOTE(SherryB @ Aug 12 2006, 10:56 AM) [snapback]229968[/snapback]

While all eyes have been on the Lebanese border, Israel has been busy behind the scenes.
Israeli Occupation Government Kidnaps Speaker of Palestinian Parliament, PM Haniyeh: Al-Duwaik's Kidnapping a Crime of Piracy

06/08/2006


Off by a coupla weeks. smile.gif
Arturo_Vandelay
Palestine Media Center? biggrin.gif

That's a reliable source. rolleyes.gif
SpaceCowboy
QUOTE(Repub_Bub @ Aug 12 2006, 01:07 PM) [snapback]229976[/snapback]

Off by a coupla weeks. smile.gif

Not everyone follows the same date notation that we do. Could be 8-6-06.

QUOTE(Arturo_Vandelay @ Aug 12 2006, 01:10 PM) [snapback]229979[/snapback]

Palestine Media Center? biggrin.gif

That's a reliable source. rolleyes.gif

Israel has detained a lot of the Hamas government members by their own admission. It could be true.
Repub_Bub
QUOTE(SpaceCowboy @ Aug 12 2006, 11:16 AM) [snapback]229980[/snapback]

Not everyone follows the same date notation that we do. Could be 8-6-06.
Israel has detained a lot of the Hams government members by their own admission. It could be true.

It was a blend of two reports....date was in June.
Arturo_Vandelay
QUOTE(SpaceCowboy @ Aug 12 2006, 11:16 AM) [snapback]229980[/snapback]

Israel has detained a lot of the Hamas government members by their own admission. It could be true.



I was commenting more on the wording.

Hamas is a terrorist org. Detained and kidnapped ain't the same thing.
SpaceCowboy
QUOTE(Repub_Bub @ Aug 12 2006, 01:17 PM) [snapback]229983[/snapback]

It was a blend of two reports....date was in June.

That doesn't fit with this:
QUOTE

Al-Duwaik was the most senior of more than sixty Palestinian cabinet ministers, lawmakers, mayors and politicians kidnapped by the IOF since June 25 when Palestinian anti-occupation activists captured an Israeli soldier and killed two more in a daring military attack in southern Gaza Strip.


Still, although I get google hits on Arab sources for the story, I don't see any from Israel's press, which is generally quite open.
davisął
I wish I knew more about the history of the situation. More reading.

Seems I have to read up on a lot of stuff these days. And I never know about sources.
Repub_Bub
QUOTE(SpaceCowboy @ Aug 12 2006, 11:21 AM) [snapback]229986[/snapback]

That doesn't fit with this:
Still, although I get google hits on Arab sources for the story, I don't see any from Israel's press, which is generally quite open.

Yup, looks like my bad....sorry.
SpaceCowboy
QUOTE(Repub_Bub @ Aug 12 2006, 01:28 PM) [snapback]229988[/snapback]

Yup, looks like my bad....sorry.

No sweat.
Bart Katz
Either way it ain't exactly today's news flash.
SpaceCowboy
QUOTE(Bart Katz @ Aug 12 2006, 01:42 PM) [snapback]229994[/snapback]

Either way it ain't exactly today's news flash.

Slow news day.
roserose
I read mostly for color. Mostly black and white but a few tints jump out at you from line to line, as in the following:

"...June 25 when Palestinian anti-occupation activists captured an Israeli soldier and killed two more in a daring military attack in southern Gaza Strip. In retaliation Israel went on rampage..." I don't care who wrote that one, I just think it's entertaining as all get out. biggrin.gif
Arturo_Vandelay
QUOTE(roserose @ Aug 12 2006, 11:50 AM) [snapback]230000[/snapback]
I read mostly for color. Mostly black and white but a few tints jump out at you from line to line, as in the following:

"...June 25 when Palestinian anti-occupation activists captured an Israeli soldier and killed two more in a daring military attack in southern Gaza Strip. In retaliation Israel went on rampage..." I don't care who wrote that one, I just think it's entertaining as all get out. biggrin.gif


It is telling where the buzwwords go. How about:

June 25 when Palestinian anti-occupation activists went on a rampage and captured an Israeli soldier and killed two more in an attack in southern Gaza Strip. In retaliation Israel went on a daring military attack
roserose
QUOTE(Arturo_Vandelay @ Aug 12 2006, 01:54 PM) [snapback]230003[/snapback]

It is telling where the buzwwords go. How about:

June 25 when Palestinian anti-occupation activists went on a rampage and captured an Israeli soldier and killed two more in an attack in southern Gaza Strip. In retaliation Israel went on a daring military attack


That's good.
I'd go further, though.
How about "Palestinian anti-occupation activists" v. Israeli anti-occupation activists" or better yet "Palestinians v. Israelis". wink.gif
SpaceCowboy
QUOTE
Israeli troops reach the Litani River

By ZEINA KARAM, Associated Press Writer 1 hour, 7 minutes ago

JERUSALEM - Israeli army units reached the Litani River on Saturday, less than 24 hours after the government ordered an operation to march toward the river in a final push against entrenched Hezbollah guerrillas,
Israel Radio reported.
ADVERTISEMENT

The units were part of a massive force that flooded into Lebanon, trying to seize as much territory as possible before a U.N. cease-fire comes into effect. The objective was to control southern Lebanon up to the Litani River, about 18 miles from the Israeli border, before handing over the area to the Lebanese army and U.N. troops.

(more) http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060812/ap_on_...non_israel_1009

I doubt that they have reached the Litani in force, but this would be a start.
Bart Katz
QUOTE(roserose @ Aug 12 2006, 02:03 PM) [snapback]230010[/snapback]

That's good.
I'd go further, though.
How about "Palestinian anti-occupation activists" v. Israeli anti-occupation activists" or better yet "Palestinians v. Israelis". wink.gif


Palestinian Freedom Fighters take Slimey Jew bastard prisoner.
SpaceCowboy
QUOTE

Last update - 21:35 12/08/2006
U.S. assures Israel it will not be forced to withdraw from Shaba
By Aluf Benn, Amos Harel, Yoav Stern and Eli Ashkenazi, and Agencies

A United Nations-brokered cease-fire would go into effect on Monday morning at 7 A.M., a senior Israeli government official said Saturday afternoon.

By then, Israel Defense Forces troops are expected to reach the Litani River, some 30 kilometers inside Lebanon, with the purpose of cutting off Hezbollah forces further south, toward the border with Israel. In the event that the fighting resumes, IDF forces will then be in a position to move more effectively against Hezbollah militants.

Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni said Saturday evening that the offensive had continued despite the UN Security Council resolution calling for an end to the war because the army had requested an extension. "We said (we would) allow the army the time it needed and I think that will be until some time on Monday," she told Channel Two television.

U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said Saturday she hoped that the shooting would end within "a day or so."

In an interview with Israel Television, Rice said, U.N. Secretary General Kofi Annan "is working with the parties to establish a timetable for the
cease-fire, but I would hope that within no more than a day or so that there would be a cessation of the hostilities on the ground."

Prime Minister Ehud Olmert's office, meanwhile, had said late Friday that the expanded incursion into Lebanon would continue "for the time being," despite Israel's agreement to a cease-fire resolution drafted by the United Nations Security Council. The cabinet is expected to vote Sunday on the resolution.

Foreign Ministry spokesman Mark Regev said Saturday morning that Israel would press ahead with its military offensive in south Lebanon until the Cabinet approved the cease-fire deal. "The logic would be that even in the framework of this successful outcome, if you hand over to the Lebanese army a cleaner south Lebanon, a south Lebanon where you have Hezbollah removed from the territory, that makes their [the Lebanese] troubles a lot easier," Regev said.

U.S. pledge to Israel on Shaba enabled breakthrough
Haaretz Diplomatic Correspondent Aluf Benn reports that an agreement reached between Israel and the United States on the disputed Shaba Farms area, located on Israel's border with Lebanon, enabled a breakthrough in reaching a cease-fire resolution at the United Nations on Friday.

In letters exchanged between U.S. and Israeli leaders, U.S. officials assured Israel that UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan would be authorized to determine whether the area belongs to Lebanon or Syria, but that the future status of the territory would only be determined in negotiations between Israel and Farms' rightful owners.

A senior government source said that Israel would not be obligated to withdraw from Shaba Farms, even if Annan's investigation determines that they belong to Lebanon.

In the negotiations that preceded the cease-fire deal, Lebanon demanded that Israel hand over Shaba Farms as a "deposit" to the UN, with the small strip of territory later to be given to either Lebanon or Syria, according to the results of Annan's investigation.

But Olmert strongly opposed the Lebanese demand, telling U.S. officials that Israel viewed the Shaba Farms as part of the Golan Heights, which was captured by Israel from Syria in 1967. He said that a withdrawal from part of the Golan would require a majority of 61 members of Knesset - a majority he does not have - or a national referendum. In 1981, the Knesset voted to extend Israeli law to the Golan.

With Olmert refusing to budge on the Shaba issue, the UN Security Council announced that Annan would determine the exact delineation of area of the Farms and present his findings to the Security Council within 30 days.

(more) http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/749566.html

Purchase of Shaba Farms by Israel would be a great solution. Here's hoping. Shaba is the last remaining territorial dispute between Israel and Lebanon, valued for its water soucres and strategic heights.
roserose
QUOTE(SpaceCowboy @ Aug 12 2006, 02:15 PM) [snapback]230015[/snapback]

(more) http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/749566.html

Purchase of Shaba Farms by Israel would be a great solution. Here's hoping. Shaba is the last remaining territorial dispute between Israel and Lebanon, valued for its water soucres and strategic heights.


You got that right.

IPB Image

The stores.

IPB Image

The chores.

(Music by Vic Mizzy)
Arturo_Vandelay
QUOTE(Bart Katz @ Aug 12 2006, 12:13 PM) [snapback]230014[/snapback]


Palestinian Freedom Fighters take Slimey Jew bastard prisoner.


You might have a future in news at the BBC or CBS. smile.gif
SpaceCowboy
Some volunteeers at least-

QUOTE
Aug. 12, 2006 20:31 | Updated Aug. 12, 2006 20:37
Foreign states offer troops to Lebanon
By ASSOCIATED PRES

France, Italy and New Zealand were among the nations that said Saturday they were ready to send peacekeepers to a bigger, stronger UN force in Lebanon, and consultations were expected to start quickly to hammer out the force's makeup and mandate.

Governments worldwide urged Israel and Hizbullah to seize the opportunity for a cease-fire, a day after the United Nations Security Council unanimously adopted a resolution seeking a "full cessation" of hostilities. As fighting continued, German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier called the resolution "a chance ... that must not be wasted."

The resolution, drafted by France and the United States, authorizes 15,000 UN peacekeepers to help Lebanese troops take control of south Lebanon, a Hizbullah stronghold, as Israeli forces that have occupied the area withdraw.

Observers say France would be well-suited to lead such a force, especially given its diplomatic success in acting as a go-between with the United States and Lebanon, a historic ally.

As France had pushed for, the resolution strengthens an existing force - UNIFIL, which now has 2,000 troops and has been in place since 1978.

The beefed-up mission will monitor the cessation of fighting, ensure aid reaches civilians and back up the Lebanese army. The Security Council also said UNIFIL's mandate could be "enhanced" in a later mandate.

The US and Israel, worried about UNIFIL's historic ineffectiveness, had pressed for another solution - deployment of an entirely new multinational force separate from UNIFIL - leading up to an Israeli withdrawal.

French President Jacques Chirac said France will "play a role in putting the new resolution into place, particularly in regards to the new UNIFIL." France will determine how many peacekeepers to send to Lebanon after evaluating the force's mandate, he said.

(more) http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid...icle%2FShowFull
Lord_Proprietor
Ayn Rand Institute Press Release
http://www.aynrand.org/

Bush Administration Betrays Israel and America

August 11, 2006

Irvine, CA ]--"By pressuring Israel to accept the U.N.'s cease-fire agreement, the Bush administration is betraying Israel--and America," said Dr. Yaron Brook, executive director of the Ayn Rand Institute.[/color]

"In the wake of a plot to kill thousands of westerners, our administration is doing nothing more than having Americans throw out their toothpaste and shampoo. Meanwhile, our leaders are forcing the one country that is actually taking serious action against Islamic totalitarianism to back down. We should be helping Israel to destroy Hezbollah, not urging it to hold back.

"This moral travesty is a betrayal of Bush's so-called war on terror."
davisął
QUOTE(Lord_Proprietor @ Aug 12 2006, 03:50 PM) [snapback]230034[/snapback]

Ayn Rand Institute Press Release
http://www.aynrand.org/

Bush Administration Betrays Israel and America




what'd he do to Israel?

laugh.gif laugh.gif rolleyes.gif unsure.gif huh.gif sad.gif dry.gif
Arturo_Vandelay
QUOTE(Lord_Proprietor @ Aug 12 2006, 01:50 PM) [snapback]230034[/snapback]
Ayn Rand Institute Press Release
http://www.aynrand.org/

Bush Administration Betrays Israel and America

August 11, 2006

[size="3"][/size]



If we don't help, we can't expect Israel to fight forever alone. Someday terrorists will kill civilians on a mass scale, Lebanese, Iranians and Syrians will dance, and chances are the US will finally take out the kind of revenge Arabs understand. So far they really think they can win because we appear weak in avoiding civilians.
Lord_Proprietor
Ayn Rand Institute Press Release
http://www.aynrand.org/

U.S. Muslim Group Should Apologize

August 11, 2006

Irvine, CA—Following news of the foiled plot to bomb airlines, the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) criticized President Bush for calling the would-be killers "Islamic fascists."

"CAIR is demanding that we evade the actual goal of those trying to kill us," said Dr. Yaron Brook, executive director of the Ayn Rand Institute. "Just as the Soviet Communists and the Nazis sought to impose their version of socialism on the world, so the new killers seek to impose their version of Islam on the world." They seek total power to enact the dictates of Islam. Theirs is an Islamic totalitarian movement.

"I wish Bush would take his own rhetoric seriously, because understanding this fact about the killers is crucial to achieving victory in the war." Only when the political aspiration of Islam--the imposition of its religious dogmas by force--has been shown to result in the deaths of Islamists, not their victims, will we be safe. Only when the cause of Islamic totalitarianism has been thoroughly discredited, will victory be achieved.

"CAIR's demand that we evade the role of religion in this conflict is undermining America's self-defense. For this, the group should apologize to all Americans."

Apologize hell, let's kick their butts out!

Friend Judy
QUOTE(Lord_Proprietor @ Aug 12 2006, 08:31 AM) [snapback]229868[/snapback]

This may help a little, FJ.


It helps. At least now I know it's simply a perjorative term, and not a serious allegation that the Islamists have a "fascist" philosophy. Kinda ignorant to use it, but I already knew you were ignorant. Now I can extend my contempt to others who use the term, immediately dismissing them as verbal bombthrowers with no regard for accuracy.

QUOTE(Human Ills @ Aug 12 2006, 11:00 AM) [snapback]229933[/snapback]

Pure spin. If you judge warfare by the body count, Israel is having a much better time of it. As far as deterrence, there was never a time that the Arab world has been deterred from attacking Israel.

WTF are you talking about? Do you even know?


WTF I'm talking about is Israel's stated purpose for this war: To degrade Hezbollah's fighting abilities enough that it no longer poses a threat.

It's a goal they've failed to accomplish, that is obviously unaccomplishable by the means being used, and perhaps unaccomplishable by any conventional military means.

And a ceasefire and UN takeover provides Israel with a fig leaf: "We could have accomplished it if they hadn't stopped us too soon/tied our hands."
SpaceCowboy
QUOTE(Friend Judy @ Aug 12 2006, 04:37 PM) [snapback]230057[/snapback]

It helps. At least now I know it's simply a perjorative term, and not a serious allegation that the Islamists have a "fascist" philosophy. Kinda ignorant to use it, but I already knew you were ignorant. Now I can extend my contempt to others who use the term, immediately dismissing them as verbal bombthrowers with no regard for accuracy.

Islamic totalitarianism would be more descriptive, but not as catchy.
Nomarchy
QUOTE(Friend Judy @ Aug 12 2006, 02:37 PM) [snapback]230057[/snapback]

It helps. At least now I know it's simply a perjorative term, and not a serious allegation that the Islamists have a "fascist" philosophy. Kinda ignorant to use it, but I already knew you were ignorant. Now I can extend my contempt to others who use the term, immediately dismissing them as verbal bombthrowers with no regard for accuracy.
WTF I'm talking about is Israel's stated purpose for this war: To degrade Hezbollah's fighting abilities enough that it no longer poses a threat.

It's a goal they've failed to accomplish, that is obviously unaccomplishable by the means being used, and perhaps unaccomplishable by any conventional military means.

And a ceasefire and UN takeover provides Israel with a fig leaf: "We could have accomplished it if they hadn't stopped us too soon/tied our hands."



Big time. And, on top of everything else, it robs us of the possibility to find out, once and for all, if that sort of approach works, at least SOME times.
Arturo_Vandelay
QUOTE(SpaceCowboy @ Aug 12 2006, 02:39 PM) [snapback]230058[/snapback]

Islamic totalitarianism would be more descriptive, but not as catchy.


One term or another. They are about where Chistians were at the time of Torquemada.
SpaceCowboy
Here is a thoughtful analysis that goes into detail on the UN resolutions from Israel's point of view-

QUOTE
Aug. 12, 2006 18:35 | Updated Aug. 12, 2006 19:18
Analysis: Not so bad in theory
By BARRY RUBIN

The UN Security Council cease-fire resolution is not so bad in theory, but everything will depend on how it is implemented, and there are some very big problems on that front.

There are two basic parts of the resolution. The introductory ("PP") paragraphs, which set out the framework for interpreting it, and the operational paragraphs ("OP"). Every word is carefully chosen, often fought over by American and French diplomats, and has significance.

In the opening section there are a number of points that fit the original US conception and are fair to Israel:

# The war and resulting deaths are blamed on Hizbullah attacking Israel (PP-2).

# The purpose of the cease-fire is defined as not only ending the current fighting but changing the situation which brought about the conflict. (PP-3)

# The unconditional release of Israel's soldiers is mandatory (PP-3).

# The goal is to have a long-term, permanent solution to the problem (PP-9).

Four other provisions are intended to meet Lebanese demands but are not necessarily very much inimical to Israel.

# The issue of the three Lebanese prisoners is to be "settled." This does not mean they will be freed. It is a sign of the depravity of the present world that the UN has to have a resolution about the fate of three murdering terrorists - one of whom killed a father in front of his son and then shot the child dead - convicted in a properly constitute court. But again, this issue is merely to be discussed. (PP-4)

# Israel's withdrawal is supposed to be at the "earliest possible" time and not immediately as the Lebanese government had demanded (PP-6).

# It takes note of Lebanon's current claim to the Shaba Farms area but does not accept it. Since the claim is so weak and Syria is unlikely to support it officially, nothing is likely to happen on this issue. (PP-7)

# Lebanon will send its army into the southern part of the country (which Israel also wants).

The new international force will be called UNIFIL (as Lebanon wanted), but will effectively be an entirely new institution (PP-6). Instead of a small number of observers it will be comprised of 15,000 troops.

It is understandable why the United States and Israel agreed to the above wording since, while it doesn't give them everything they want, it is reasonable given what might be expected.

But all this wording is also only a prelude to the list of things to be done, the OP section. Here, too, the shape of the resolution is not so bad except for whether - given three key problems - it will be implemented properly. The three problems are:

# Hizballah, Iran, and Syria will not cooperate.

# The Lebanese government will be too weak, afraid, and sympathetic to them to force implementation.

# The international community is too craven, ignorant, and cowardly to act toughly. And even if it wanted to do so (see below) it needs the permission of the Lebanese government.

The question then is whether the ceasefire will work well enough to be minimally acceptable or not.

Returning to the actual text, however, a number of the original points pushed for by the United States have survived. These included the restriction only on "offensive" Israeli action (OP1). Does this mean Israel could, for example, send planes over Lebanon to hit a Hizbullah rocket launcher that is about to or has just fired? That isn't clear but it is possible.

Moreover, Israel only has to withdraw when the Lebanese army moves in and not, as the Lebanese government wanted, immediately (OP2). On the negative side, though, this means Israeli forces would probably have to leave before the large international force arrives. The longer it takes for international forces to get there, the worse this is.

(2 more pages)
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?apa...icle%2FShowFull
Arturo_Vandelay
QUOTE(SpaceCowboy @ Aug 12 2006, 04:22 PM) [snapback]230080[/snapback]


# The purpose of the cease-fire is defined as not only ending the current fighting but changing the situation which brought about the conflict. (PP-3)

# The unconditional release of Israel's soldiers is mandatory (PP-3).


We'll see. I don't believe the situation will change until the Muslims see a great advantage and they try to wipe out Israel Who knows whether or when that will be.
Lord_Proprietor
Israelis turn on Olmert as UN agrees ceasefire

After basking in high approval ratings while the war was being pursued, the Prime Minister faces demands to stand down after failing to deliver total victory. Inigo Gilmore reports from Tel Aviv

Sunday August 13, 2006
The Observer


The future of Israel's Prime Minister, Ehud Olmert, was last night hanging on how successfully he could sell his citizens the idea that the country had been 'victorious' in the 'war in the north' as criticism of his shaky performance began to escalate amid the first calls for his resignation.........
Lord_Proprietor
Ayn Rand Institute Press Release


Waiting for the U.N.

Aug 11, 2006

Irvine, CA--"Israel should continue to expand its offensive in Lebanon, not wait for a worthless U.N. resolution," said Dr. Yaron Brook, executive director of the Ayn Rand Institute.

"All a U.N. agreement will do is tie Israel's hands while an ineffective U.N. peacekeeping force fails to stop Hezbollah from regrouping, rearming and preparing for its next campaign of destruction.

"What else can be expected of an organization that claims to be concerned with Israel’s security, while its own Human Rights Council is issuing condemnations of Israel for actually taking action to achieve that security?

"No wonder Ayn Rand referred to the U.N. as 'that contemptible citadel of global hypocrisy.'"


Arturo_Vandelay
QUOTE(Lord_Proprietor @ Aug 13 2006, 06:57 AM) [snapback]230174[/snapback]
Israelis turn on Olmert as UN agrees ceasefire

After basking in high approval ratings while the war was being pursued, the Prime Minister faces demands to stand down after failing to deliver total victory. Inigo Gilmore reports from Tel Aviv
.



It's a no-win position. The world will say he was too hard, and hard-liners will say he was too soft. The Lebanese are already getting mouthy at the top. It's pretty obvious they see Hezbollah as part of the national defense and will try to claim a victory regardless of the outcome.
Lord_Proprietor
QUOTE
Hizbullah: Countdown has begun to end of Zionist entity
Knock, knock, hello, hello, is anyone home?
A nation is being murdered here. Wake up!


Hizbullah: Countdown has begun to end of Zionist entity

Ynet News, by Roee Nahmias

8/13/2006 1:50:57 AM

Senior Hizbullah official: If a mere organization succeeded in defeating Israel, why would Arab nations not succeed in doing so? / Ahmed Barakat, of Hizbullah's central council, said in an interview to Qatari newspaper al-Watan that ''Today Arab and Muslim society is reasonably certain that the defeat of Israel is possible and that countdown to the disappearance of the Zionist entity in the region has begun.''
Brian_Lambchops
Israel isn't likely to be the last target either.
Lord_Proprietor
QUOTE(Arturo_Vandelay @ Aug 13 2006, 10:59 AM) [snapback]230184[/snapback]

It's a no-win position. The world will say he was too hard, and hard-liners will say he was too soft. The Lebanese are already getting mouthy at the top. It's pretty obvious they see Hezbollah as part of the national defense and will try to claim a victory regardless of the outcome.



And of course will be a part of the Lebanese Military Forces wink.gif wink.gif which will be patrolling the southern part of the nation to keep their own forces unsure.gif out! Oh Ho Ho! Neat unsure.gif Uh?
judy
QUOTE(Friend Judy @ Aug 7 2006, 08:04 PM) [snapback]228437[/snapback]

Rose, let me try to explain mainstream Islam using analogies:

Like many Christians here who claim this is a "Christian country founded on Judeo-Christian values, and Christian morality should be the law", even moderate mainstream Muslims strong feel that Islam is the fabric that ties their society together and should form the basis of civil law.

Many Muslims in Europe want sharia law (the unwritten principles that vary from place to place, much as Jewish denominations and rabbis hash out "Jewish law", which also varies from sect to sect and place to place) to govern matters of family law (marriage, divorce, child custody, inheritance, burial) in much the same way that those pushing for the law in their US states to recognize "covenant marriage".


Friend Judy, your analogies point more to the counterfeit religion of Islam than to examples of equality and/or similarities to Christianity. The basis of their civil law is found in the Koran and according to the Koran, not all men are born equal. It promotes slavery as a sacred practice and considers the bondage and humiliation of all women, even their own mothers, as a divine order. Islam permits men to have more than one wife. Moslem women, however, are not permitted to have more than one husband, and any sexual deviation on their part is severely punished, often by public flogging or death, in a ceremony held every Friday in every public square.

Many Islamic countries also feature mut'a, or "the law of desire". This system of "temporary marriage" is akin to legalized prostitution. Under this law, a Moslem man may hire a "temporary wife" for a fixed amount of money. All the benefits in this system belong to the man, who may hire as many temporary wives as he please. All children from a "temporary wife" belong to the man. Of course, a Moslem woman cannot hire a temporary husband.

In Islam, Christians and Jews are Dhimmi - second-class citizens -and are subject to discriminatory laws, double standards, repressive taxation, and humiliating public ceremonies of submission. Hudud laws are Islamic laws, which define punishments for certain gravely sinful activities. So for example, if you steal something - your right-hand is amputated; if you commit adultery - you are stoned to death etc. etc.

Moslems consider themselves the master race of "the prophet" and look down at others as inferior. Indeed, their religious texts vilify Christians and Jews (jointly called "peoples of the Book") as "apes" and "pigs". Such passages, however, are found only in the original Arabic. They are seldom found in translations into other languages, especially not in Western tongues.

And to equate a Christian "covenant Marriage" with Sha'ria Law is certainly a poor analogy.


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Salvation by faith alone is the First Pillar of Islam, in the same way that fundamentalists and many evangelicals believe in salvation through faith alone. One converts by making a simple statement of faith, witnessed or not, similar to being "born again".


Islam is a religion which teaches that the way to heaven and salvation leads through murder it is a faith which seeks the destruction of all other religions (especially those based on the Bible, which is regarded as a fake and a satanic book) and the subjugation of all nations as its sanctified goal. The Islamic legal system, Sha'ria, is barbaric and it opposes the righteous judicial Law of God.

Again, the key ingredient of GRACE is missing from salvation for Muslims. No where is the Grace of God part of their religion. The saddest thing for any Muslim is that he hasn't any assurance of salvation, except as a Jihadist, and it is this belief that physical fighting in the cause of Allah is the highest calling that makes Islam so dangerous and implacable. The Muslim god asks you to sacrifice your son but the Christian God offered His own Son as a sacrifice for sin. It's a huge difference.

Since in Islam the concepts of "peace" and "submission" are synonymous, "peace" can be achieved only by total submission to Islam. No other form of peace is conceivable to a Moslem. Therefore, when Muhammad's "mystic fighters" subdued a nation, they believed that "peace" had prevailed. Likewise today, "peace" to a Moslem means only one thing -- a total capitulation of all humanity to Islam
SpaceCowboy
QUOTE(Lord_Proprietor @ Aug 13 2006, 12:12 PM) [snapback]230206[/snapback]



Hizbullah: Countdown has begun to end of Zionist entity

Ynet News, by Roee Nahmias

8/13/2006 1:50:57 AM

Senior Hizbullah official: If a mere organization succeeded in defeating Israel, why would Arab nations not succeed in doing so? / Ahmed Barakat, of Hizbullah's central council, said in an interview to Qatari newspaper al-Watan that ''Today Arab and Muslim society is reasonably certain that the defeat of Israel is possible and that countdown to the disappearance of the Zionist entity in the region has begun.''

Yada yada yada.

Only the Arabs could cast this as a victory.

We've heard it all before.
judy
QUOTE
Communal prayer is also one of the Five Pillars of Islam. By praying "together" at the same time, five times a day, each time meditating on one of the Five Pillars, they are expressing a solidarity and sense of community and religious recommittment, afirming Islamic values, much in the same way that many Christians believe in the importance of public collective prayer. (One is praying "communally" even when praying alone, participating in the community, because one is praying the same prayers at the same time facing the same direction.)


There is a big difference from the Muslim call to prayer and the prayer that Jesus said to do in Mathew 6:5,6

"When you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, who love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on street corners so that others may see them. Amen, I say to you, they have received their reward.
But when you pray, go to your inner room, close the door, and pray to your Father in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will repay you"





QUOTE
Muslims believe in spreading the "good news" in the same way evangelical Christians do.

Now this is a total falsehood! For the most part, churches and synagogues have been destroyed, vandalized, or completely outlawed in Muslim countries and mosques are springing up like ‘fast food restaurants’ in Western culture. This is not the same way to evangelize.


QUOTE
An important difference between mainstream Islam and Islamicist (much like the difference between Christians and Christianists) is that the nutcases think everyone must either convert in truth or at least acknowledge the superior place of Islam and its right to govern according to Islamic principles, Muhammed having brought the latest, and therefore ultimate, Word of God. Mainstream Muslims place more emphasis on the special provisions set forth in the Koran for "People of the Book", Jews and Christians. (That is, the Old Testament and the Gospels. their translation of the teachings of Jesus, who they worship, along with Mary, as a saint and prophet.) The special treatment is to register with the local (Islamic) civil authorities and pay a tax. whereupon they're SUPPOSED to be left alone to practice their religions in peace, including governing their domestic affairs (marriage, etc.) according to their own religious law.



If you are saying that Muslims and Christians are alike because they believe in evangelizing, you might as well equate human carnivores with cannibals. It’s a different approach. . ISLAMIC "EVANGELISM" - THE "SWORD OF ISLAM" Perhaps the boldest falsehood in the representation of Islam and the Moslems is the contention that the spread of the new faith was "rapid and peaceful". It was indeed rapid, but far from peaceful. Its most prominent symbol is the "Seif-el-Islam" - The Sword of Islam". Indeed, the most important symbol of Islam is, appropriately enough, the sword (or the saber) and the sword was the primary instrument of Islamic expansionism. In most cases the conquered were given only two choices - an immediate conversion or speedy cut throat.

davisął
QUOTE
"When you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, who love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on street corners so that others may see them. Amen, I say to you, they have received their reward.
But when you pray, go to your inner room, close the door, and pray to your Father in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will repay you"



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judy
QUOTE
Providing for the poor is also one of the Five Pillars of Islam, and is the reason that nutcase outfits like Al Qaeda and Hamas and Hezbollah run charities and provide social services. It is also the cause of resentment by even mainstream Muslims of what they perceive to be US puppet governments like the House of Saud--that those governments are not upholding this duty to provide for the poor with all that oil and trade money. While Hezbollah Family Services is a valuable recruiting tool, what MAKES it a valuable recruiting tool is that it's seen as a sign of devoutness and fulfilling of a religious obligation that their governments have defaulted on.


Bombing planes, buildings and people cannot be credited as providing for the poor. It’s hard to think of any benefits to society that Islam has contributed in centuries. Their forte is to destroy and kill. Moslem terrorists have murdered thousands of helpless, unarmed civilians, with the Twin Towers in New York not the only - although it is (as of now) the largest and most spectacular case. Islamic Iraq has killed thousands of defenseless Kurds with poison gas, which did not spare women, children and even the victims' livestock. It is also hard to understand how the sacrificial slaughter of a half million animals in Saudi Arabia squares with respect for life. Islam never had any respect for life, any form of life, including the life of its own believers


QUOTE
Muslims believe in Muslim solidarity in the same way many Christians believe in Christian solidarity, and share the believe that one Muslim should not judge the state of another Muslim's soul. This makes it hard for them to criticize other Muslims, even the nutcases, in the same way many Christians have trouble criticizing Pat Robertson and Rev. Phelps and Eric Rudolf. Many also feel it imposes a duty on them to defend "persecuted" Muslims who are "upholding Islam according to their own interpretation of it" in much the same way that some Christians feel obliged to defend "Christians who are being discriminated against" even when they are of drastically different sects--rather like Angus Dei defending those apostate Baptists who're being prevented from praying at graduations, but taken to the extreme.

The principle of Inshallah (that is, as Allah wills it) is similar to "everything that happens is according to God's plan. But devout Muslims tend to take that to extremes, behaving recklessly in the belief that if you get killed by it it was God's will and if you don't, then THAT was God's will. (This is taken to extreme and used in recruiting suicide bombers, btw--that if you succeed at your suicide bombing, it was God's will that you do so.)

Above is a summary of "the Muslim lifestyle", which almost all Muslims take with the same seriousness as many Christians take "living a Christian lifestyle", and I hope makes the point that many Muslim principles are very similar to many Christian principles. That shouldn't be surprising, since Islam incorporates the Bible as a portion of their Holy Scriptures, with the addition of the Koran as the most recent scripture, amending that which went before, and is again similar to Christian beliefs in the New Testament being a supplement to the Old Testament. (And also accompanied by a schism similar to that in Christianity over whether the latest scripture repealed/replaced the earlier ones, or built upon it. The nutcases are on the "replaced" side.)


I think the "nutcases" are too obvious to even mention. Counterfeit religions as counterfeit money tries to represent itself as the real thing. It takes a study of the real thing to know the difference, otherwise you are fooled.

davisął
QUOTE
I think the "nutcases" are too obvious to even mention. Counterfeit religions as counterfeit money tries to represent itself as the real thing. It takes a study of the real thing to know the difference, otherwise you are fooled.




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You're right, they are too numerous to mention. Don't be fooled.
SherryB


Sy Hersh has a new article in the New Yorker about the US/Israeli plans for the war in Lebanon. The US military has been working with the Israelis for months waiting for a "trigger" to be pulled, such as the taking of the two soldiers, so that the full war could commence. It's a practice run, so sources say, to get ready for the attack and invasion on Iran, which could start next year.

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/060821fa_fact

Good article.
Spot
That's one hellacious long article. I'll have to finish after dinner, but thanks for posting it.
SherryB
QUOTE(Spot @ Aug 13 2006, 07:04 PM) [snapback]230295[/snapback]

That's one hellacious long article. I'll have to finish after dinner, but thanks for posting it.


It's easier for me to just print the dang thing. Then I can read it at my leisure. While I'm fishing, for example. smile.gif
Spot
QUOTE(SherryB @ Aug 13 2006, 04:07 PM) [snapback]230298[/snapback]

It's easier for me to just print the dang thing. Then I can read it at my leisure. While I'm fishing, for example. smile.gif



Good thinking. smile.gif
Lord_Proprietor
Saturday, August 12, 2006
AP Whitewashes Pro-Hizballah Rally in DC

From a quick email that a reader sent from the rally in Washington DC today, I already know this Associated Press story is an absurd whitewash: Mideast rallies held in Washington, SF.


WASHINGTON - Thousands of people gathered across from the White House on Saturday, even though the president was out of town, to condemn U.S. and Israeli policies in the Middle East.

Speakers in Lafayette Park energized the most mostly Muslim crowd with chants and speeches condemning Israeli involvement in Lebanon and the Palestinian territories, U.S. support for Israel and U.S. involvement in Iraq.

“Occupation is a crime,” the crowd chanted, equating the situations in the three areas. But they also called for peace and justice for all.

“We all stand united against the violence and the killing in the holy land,” said Esam Omesh, president of the Muslim American Society, a co-sponsor of the demonstration, along with the American-Arab Anti Discrimination Committee and the National Council of Arab Americans. “There is no difference between Muslim life, Christian life or Jewish life,” said Omesh. ...

Former Attorney General Ramsey Clark drew cheers from the Washington crowd when he called for President Bush’s impeachment. “We’ve made more enemies during the presidency of George Bush than in the rest of our history combined,” Clark said. ...

The family friendly crowd was filled with Muslims, but also contained many non-Muslims, including a handful of orthodox Jews. [Almost certainly the whacko Neturei Karta group. —ed.] Yeshaye Rosenverg, 23, traveled form Monsey, N.Y., to “show the support for the Lebanese and Palestine people and to make clear that it’s not a Jewish fight between Arabs and Jews.”

A law enforcement official on the scene estimated that there were about 5,000 people attending the rally and subsequent march through the streets of Washington, which was sponsored by the ANSWER Coalition, the Muslim American Society Freedom Foundation and the National Council of Arab Americans.


The email I received from an LGF reader said that the Hizballah flag was waved in front of the White House today. Pictures soon.



Already the outrageous bias shows up, in the caption for a photo from al-Reuters:
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A woman shouts at anti-Muslim protesters during a rally in Washington against the Middle East conflict August 12, 2006. REUTERS/Jonathan Ernst (UNITED STATES)
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